I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

Armstrong/Ennis 4.5.
You might still need gusts of 13 or sustained 11 to get up.

Ensis.

GONG Droid

I am 5'2 and 60kg and ride a 5m 90% of the time. Power is your friend. If u go to small you will never get up and going unless it's nuking winds.

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Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

Learning good technique for getting up and running is a much better option I feel and will get you a much bigger wind range anyway.

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WINDSURFnSNOW said..

Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

Learning good technique for getting up and running is a much better option I feel and will get you a much bigger wind range anyway.

Yes I know I need a larger wing to get up and learn but what else can I do if the larger wing is just too large to pick up & maneuver properly so a smaller wind wing or nothing, I just need to get up on foil for more air time as a beginner (also I have the Foil Drive system so hopefully that will help?:-)

12 year old riding an 8m

www.facebook.com/fonewingsurf/videos/386347872862008/?hc_ref=ARQDtjL77gOHlll6OT05EA8OH6Cj9KbsONqN7KvV1_EuQ1OOsyDk2o9ffMpY9PUDU1Y&fref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARDOuKY-1yJaaZ82kdTynfjldLgR1vM3Erqd889Cd0_un1778ExI0bCDKYSzScu-rM_lGVd3rIX2FtaWBg9TiJl5jFhNdxCq1AZgCEMfOo3rmjI2m-kNYBs3ULOzW1h75llxvYjykZ90FwCSVrfk-38_PAWnCzy9Dpny-Ta7Z_2fOf9YS1DjiBfDy8HNX5yT6fL4wJUWWM5qu63uwFT2OooMl82PaNc1LqJWscsigvDzlsAJ9N_FptRJZUXVLfNHwT224Xds6UZn7CCLGfXyl-2GSYvDhe5meM6PXvWWv8HwMVRppZVsTU_thrW4xFo&__tn__=kC-R

Armstrong A-wing 4.5 or North Nova 4.2. My wife is 5'2" and she can use both wings without problem. She prefers the North because it is significantly lighter than the Armstrong tank.

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Goofcat said..
Armstrong A-wing 4.5 or North Nova 4.2. My wife is 5'2" and she can use both wings without problem. She prefers the North because it is significantly lighter than the Armstrong tank.

Yes actually I was thinking about the North, and about what is the minimum wind that she can foil in ?:-)

I am not sure who is telling u to go smaller but this is small me 160cm and 60kg on 5m turning and handling is easy. If u go smaller I am afraid you just won't have the power to learn, making it very frustrating for you. But hey each to their own I guess and if u feel smaller will work then go for it and see how u go. You can always get a larger wing later if it is too small. Rarely see anyone flying anything less then a 5m unless it's well over 20 knots.

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Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

How tall are you and what do you weigh? Any comments made without knowing are just guesses.

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Gorgo said..

Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

How tall are you and what do you weigh? Any comments made without knowing are just guesses.

I am 5'4" & 65kg dripping wet in a full wetsuit & 60yo in a month and I can just can not carry & handle & take a large Wing to the surf & it just does not feel right so I want to try a smaller Wing and if that does not fit then I will just stick to the Sup & Prone:-)

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Gorgo said..

Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

How tall are you and what do you weigh? Any comments made without knowing are just guesses.

I am 5'4" & almost 65kg dripping wet in a full wetsuit & 60yo in a month and I just can not take & handle a large Wing to the surf & it just does not feel right so I need to try a smaller Wing or give up wind foiling & just stick to Sup & prone:-)

I carried out a load of research about 8 months ago to find the smallest wingspan and lightest 4m wing to get my kids going with. I purchased the Takoon V1 pretty blind as there wasn't that much info out there. It's been an unreal wing which I use loads and have switched to using Takoon for my bigger wing the 5.5m. The V2 has better handles and more grunt in smaller sizes.

Naish Matador 4m
PPC 3.8m
Smik 4m
North Nova 3.5m or 4.2m.
If you run a larger board (>+10L above body weight)and bigger foil you can easily use a smaller wing than 5m. Good Technique and time on the water makes a big difference. If you add a foil drive as power assist you'll be flying easily with any of the above wing choices.

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Johndesu said..

Gorgo said..

Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

How tall are you and what do you weigh? Any comments made without knowing are just guesses.

I am 5'4" & 65kg dripping wet in a full wetsuit & 60yo in a month and I can just can not carry & handle & take a large Wing to the surf & it just does not feel right so I want to try a smaller Wing and if that does not fit then I will just stick to the Sup & Prone:-)

Gorgo said..

Johndesu said..
I am too small & short to handle / manhandle a 5m Wing so I was thinking a 4m maybe? are there any ideas about a small 4m wing? which has the shortest wing span & maybe also really light buy still with a lot of available low end wind range please?:-)

How tall are you and what do you weigh? Any comments made without knowing are just guesses.

I am 5'4" & almost 65kg dripping wet in a full wetsuit & 60yo in a month and I just can not take & handle a large Wing to the surf & it just does not feel right so I need to try a smaller Wing or give up wind foiling & just stick to Sup & prone:-)

You are a giant compared to my wife, she uses the North Nova's and Duotone Slicks with ease. The Duotone have a smaller wingspan than most, the 4,5m being the sweet size of the quiver.

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Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..
Armstrong A-wing 4.5 or North Nova 4.2. My wife is 5'2" and she can use both wings without problem. She prefers the North because it is significantly lighter than the Armstrong tank.

Yes actually I was thinking about the North, and about what is the minimum wind that she can foil in ?:-)

She can get going in 14kts on the 4.2 Nova. (80L board 1550 foil). She might have gone lower, but her wing pumping skill is still developing.

I used to have a 1700 foil, and could pump a 4m WASP up in 12 knots. I always found the smaller the wing, the easier to pump up. Now on 800cm foil, and it's a struggle on the 4m in anything less than 15 knots, honestly not worth the effort. It's doable. I have a 1000 foil for the light, and would still rather a 5 WASP for the lighter stuff. I'm 75kg on 65L board.

Hey Johndesu,
I'm just wondering if you might be having the same issue as me (when I tried a Naish 6m)? I'm 174cm and 70kg and have been using Duotone Echo's (4m and 5m) and Slicks (5.5m). All have booms. I have found them to be great for control as the boom allows you to twist the wing which might not be great technique, but it definitely assists with preventing the tips from dragging in the water.
I used a 6m Naish (with material handles) and found the thing flopped all over the place and I struggled with control - possibly ****e technique on my behalf too. I find the 5.5 Slick will get me going in around 10 knots. The 4m Echo in a little more - 12 knots. A lightweight like you will definitely have the potential to get a 4m wing going in 12 knots (possibly less), depending on your foil and board. There are oodles of youtube vids out there showing foilers up and going in sub 10 knots with 4m and smaller wings. The thing is, you need time and technique to get to that stage. If you haven't tried a boom, I'd suggest giving one a try before you commit. Any friends/shops you can loan for a go?

There is the actual wingspan of the wing, but also its angle from the vertical.

Beginner wings tend to stay at an angle, and have a bigger dihedral angle (the angle between the two wing sides) so you can manage bigger wingspans without actually touching water.

Some brands have handy summaries of the sizes. For example, Gong have them under the "Buying guide" tab:
You can see that for a given surface, in the Gong line, the most compact ones are the Superpower and the Droid.

Don't choose your gear based on day 1 fitness and technique. Get a 5m and learn to manage it. Otherwise you likely won't be able to get on foil or will struggle unnecessarily, or only be able to ride certain days.

Carrying a wing to the water is done once per session, twice if you reverse the process. You will have to get up on foil dozens of times per session. Plan for the harder activity you do for 2 hours. Not the easier one you do on the way in and out for 5 min. You mention surf in your post. That's not where you want to learn. Sorry if this seems short, just concerned that you're about to make an expensive mistake and genuinely want you to learn and enjoy this sport.

I'm 5'8", 63kg and mid 50's. I learned on a 5m and my buddy who's my same size rides a 6m and loves it. Luca, the 12 year old who is riding that 8m in that video is tiny. SUPLUV on Instagram rides a 6m and she's 5'4" and had never done any surf or water sport when she started.

Winging sucks in the early days. Make it easy. Big gear makes it easy.

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Johndesu said..

...
I am 5'4" & almost 65kg dripping wet in a full wetsuit & 60yo in a month and I just can not take & handle a large Wing to the surf & it just does not feel right so I need to try a smaller Wing or give up wind foiling & just stick to Sup & prone:-)

As has been said, there's heaps of people wing foiling shorter than you with all sorts of wings.

As has also been said, what seems difficult at first becomes very easy once you get the hang of things. The biggest mistake you can make in foiling is to chase equipment when all you really need is experience.

Also mentioned, there's about 15cm difference in the effective span between a 4m and a 5m. There's a similar difference between high aspect and low aspect wings of a similar size. Very few manufacturers give measurements for their wings. Gong has that graphic with spans on it.

Switch give technical specs with flat and projected span, chord and aspect ratio. They're great wings and cheap if you buy them during a sale and when the dollar is high. They're not a narrow wing. switchkites.com/products/drift-surf-wing

My advice to all new wing foilers is to simply go out in more wind. Wind makes everything easier. A minimum of 18 knots is ideal. At the very least make sure every other wing foiler is up and foiling. Light wind foiling sucks without good skills and gear and some of the claims are a tad exaggerated.

If you want to buy a 4m, go for it. 4m is a great size especially if the wind is stronger. Just add more wind. You'll probably want a 4m if you want to chase wind swell or go out in stronger winds.

There's lots of brands with wings with more square tips. Look at the pictures and see what you think.

Agree that bigger is better for learning. No pumping necessary. Just float the bigger wing above your head, point the board across the wind, slightly upwind, and bring the wing down in front of you while filling it with wind. Let the bigger wing pull you up so you can just focus on balancing. You can use the bigger wing on lighter wind days and on stronger wind days, just don't pull in so much with your back hand. Foil size also plays a big part. Get a big front foil when learning for slow, early lift. 1800-2000cm2 would be good. Lastly, it takes time. Be patient, go as often as you can and make small adjustments with you stance and position on the board when learning. Good luck!

Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

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Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

Just get a light 5m. If you are dragging the tip you are doing it wrong & 4m won't help. You need time on foil & too small a wing will just reduce that.

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Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

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Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

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Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

If you're heart is set on a 4m, just get a WASP. Both G1 and G2 are awesome. I've taken my WASP from 8-46 knots, with the latter more an incident, but either way, It still held up fine. I've also been through my WASP twice when crashing. When you're learning, you're better off with a G1 Echo or WASP. You don't want to be scared to go through the thing or break it, but you also want to push it hard. As everyone has said here, you want a 5m or better a 6m. Learning to balance, pump, altitude control and turning is overwhelming when starting and the goal here is to make it easy. Reduce the difficulty in one or more aspects and you'll have 10x the session.
Side note, as you're based in the eastern suburbs, you should try and have a few flat water sessions in Rose Bay or Botany rather than Bronte. Ocean is typically not a beginners place and can really hinder development.

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LordCB said..

Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

If you're heart is set on a 4m, just get a WASP. Both G1 and G2 are awesome. I've taken my WASP from 8-46 knots, with the latter more an incident, but either way, It still held up fine. I've also been through my WASP twice when crashing. When you're learning, you're better off with a G1 Echo or WASP. You don't want to be scared to go through the thing or break it, but you also want to push it hard. As everyone has said here, you want a 5m or better a 6m. Learning to balance, pump, altitude control and turning is overwhelming when starting and the goal here is to make it easy. Reduce the difficulty in one or more aspects and you'll have 10x the session.
Side note, as you're based in the eastern suburbs, you should try and have a few flat water sessions in Rose Bay or Botany rather than Bronte. Ocean is typically not a beginners place and can really hinder development.

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LordCB said..

Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

If you're heart is set on a 4m, just get a WASP. Both G1 and G2 are awesome. I've taken my WASP from 8-46 knots, with the latter more an incident, but either way, It still held up fine. I've also been through my WASP twice when crashing. When you're learning, you're better off with a G1 Echo or WASP. You don't want to be scared to go through the thing or break it, but you also want to push it hard. As everyone has said here, you want a 5m or better a 6m. Learning to balance, pump, altitude control and turning is overwhelming when starting and the goal here is to make it easy. Reduce the difficulty in one or more aspects and you'll have 10x the session.
Side note, as you're based in the eastern suburbs, you should try and have a few flat water sessions in Rose Bay or Botany rather than Bronte. Ocean is typically not a beginners place and can really hinder development.

Yes I am planing on going to rose bay as soon as I can get a wing and yes I am set on a 4m wing because it is smaller, lighter & more compact:-)

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Johndesu said..

LordCB said..

Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

If you're heart is set on a 4m, just get a WASP. Both G1 and G2 are awesome. I've taken my WASP from 8-46 knots, with the latter more an incident, but either way, It still held up fine. I've also been through my WASP twice when crashing. When you're learning, you're better off with a G1 Echo or WASP. You don't want to be scared to go through the thing or break it, but you also want to push it hard. As everyone has said here, you want a 5m or better a 6m. Learning to balance, pump, altitude control and turning is overwhelming when starting and the goal here is to make it easy. Reduce the difficulty in one or more aspects and you'll have 10x the session.
Side note, as you're based in the eastern suburbs, you should try and have a few flat water sessions in Rose Bay or Botany rather than Bronte. Ocean is typically not a beginners place and can really hinder development.

LordCB said..

Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

If you're heart is set on a 4m, just get a WASP. Both G1 and G2 are awesome. I've taken my WASP from 8-46 knots, with the latter more an incident, but either way, It still held up fine. I've also been through my WASP twice when crashing. When you're learning, you're better off with a G1 Echo or WASP. You don't want to be scared to go through the thing or break it, but you also want to push it hard. As everyone has said here, you want a 5m or better a 6m. Learning to balance, pump, altitude control and turning is overwhelming when starting and the goal here is to make it easy. Reduce the difficulty in one or more aspects and you'll have 10x the session.
Side note, as you're based in the eastern suburbs, you should try and have a few flat water sessions in Rose Bay or Botany rather than Bronte. Ocean is typically not a beginners place and can really hinder development.

Yes I am planing on going to rose bay as soon as I can get a wing and yes I am set on a 4m wing because it is smaller, lighter & more compact:-)

Consider a F-ONE strike then.

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

Goofcat said..

Johndesu said..
Thanks very much for all the advice from everyone I have been leaning towards / wondering about the 4m Duotone Unit, maybe someone has some personal feedback on the 4m Unit?:-)

I'm not a fan of the Unit. It has a wide wind span for the size, handles are comfortable but floppy, so it's hard to control the wing. There is the dreaded "Doutone flip" where the shape of the wing causes it to want to flip and sit on the water upside down, so you're always having to flip it back each time you fall. Quality is sub-par with a dump valve that belongs on a a beach ball and a stuff sack that should be holding tent poles. The lack of included wrist leash and pump adaptor will cost you an extra $60. Early ones had a well documented valve issue and popped bladders.

This was the only wing I sold after less than 10 sessions. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough, and lost a good chunk of money doing it.

When it first came out, there were lots of guys on Maui riding it. None of those folks are using the Unit now if that's an indication of anything.

Ok really well what do you think about the 4m Cabrina x2 then maybe?:-)

Haven't ridden one, but from looking at them on the beach, they seem higher aspect (wider). I would consider an Armstrong 4.5, PPC, Ensis, North or F One in the 4.something range