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beached57 said..
yeah, having bought a mid length board, i'm already wondering if it was really necessary. it may get up a bit sooner than my old F-One Rocket, but because of these boards depth (both mid lengths and DWers), i still feel more of a disconnect between me and the foil than i did with the slimmer F-One. That disconnect is why i switched from one of my first boards (5" deep) to the F-One. So in my world, I've already done a full cycle...and am scratching my head.

Why are they inventing these thick things
thin is in for years with carbon strong shell windsurfing boards . Just use a thicker egg shell
for f.ck sake Oscar going on and on about too thick now?

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Wingfoil Rentals said..

beached57 said..
yeah, having bought a mid length board, i'm already wondering if it was really necessary. it may get up a bit sooner than my old F-One Rocket, but because of these boards depth (both mid lengths and DWers), i still feel more of a disconnect between me and the foil than i did with the slimmer F-One. That disconnect is why i switched from one of my first boards (5" deep) to the F-One. So in my world, I've already done a full cycle...and am scratching my head.

Why are they inventing these thick things
thin is in for years with carbon strong shell windsurfing boards . Just use a thicker egg shell
for f.ck sake Oscar going on and on about too thick now?

Oscar just highlighted the compromise in performance compared to using a specific board for a specific purpose. Not sure he's going on and on about it.

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Gencion said..
Doe it make sense to change from 6'8x22" to 7'2x20"?
Or the difference would be too small?

The width reduction is almost 10% so right away you go from 3.7 something to over 4 for length to beam. The extra length is a less significant change but it helps in two ways, better length to beam, and board drag in the takeoff speed range is less for a longer board. I don't have direct experience with boards of exactly those dimensions so take whatever I say with a big grain of salt, but I would expect it to be a worthwhile improvement in low end. Keep in mind though that 1kn drop in wind speed is a big reduction in available energy (and power) in that sub 10kn wind range.

Apart from the length, width, aspect ratio issue, i would also be interested to know which direction the various manufacturers are taking with the underwater hull at those midlength boards? Double concave, v, or flat? Unfortunately, I haven't found much information on this yet. V shape is probably the most unstable on the water, but should favor plowing through the water and thus favor an early take-off, or is that too far into detail and not such an important aspect overall?

I'm 83kg and I can get a 62L standard wide board going in 10-15 knots with a 6.5 and an AXIS ART 999 (1000). I'll sink to my hips but I'll look for a gust that hits around 15 knots, and I'll get going. There is a benefit to mid-lengths, but it isn't a huge window. But on a day that it drops a few knots below where I can get that 62L board going, it's a session saver and a fun one at that.I don't have one, but I borrowed a buddy's board yesterday when the wind dropped to about 8-12 knots... and I got that same ART 999 going with a 6.5 wing. That's where I can't get the 62L going because while I can get it to the surface pumping, I can't get it to unstick. Mind you, the mid-length I borrowed is pretty big - 6'3" x 21(?) - 110L. I'm thinking of having one made but more like 6'1" x 20 - 75L or 80L to be just right below my weight. I feel I just need a little bit more than my 62L gives me to tackle that lower range of 10-15 knots. Below that, I usually don't even bother. But I'll eventually get a proper DW board so I may still try and get out on some of the even lighter days. That said, I don't really want a wing larger than 6.5m.

Hi there, looking for a one board solution to do it all in winging except rotating jumps I went for a custom 5'9" x 21,5" (175?55cm) x 93l board that has a shape like the omen flux. For me with 93kg this works quite well in light wind condition 8-14knt with 7m wing until 30+ knt with4 m wing.
I think the hull shape underwater together with length and narrowness does make the differenz in light wind. The shape remindes me to the old lightwind windsurf boards of the 80s, that were not built to glide, but to be fast in under 10knt conditions....

If anybody is playing with the though of having a quiver killer (or two) in their quiver : )

First ride with a 5'11'' 20.5'' 70 L, 843 cm2 foil, @ 72 kg. Nicely powered in the gusts, pretty quiet in between hence all the pumping. Playful, unrivalled rail clearance, stable platform, totally seamless touchdowns. Will try the 60 L size next.

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Yellow one doesn't seems to have step. Not all sizes have step?

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motogon said..

Yellow one doesn't seems to have step. Not all sizes have step?

@motogon The one with a yellow bottom is a different model, a more conventional shape without the step.

ktsurfing.com/boards/drifter-4-carbon/

Taavi - more thoughts on that 70L Super K please! Particularly relevant comparisons if you have any...thanks

Seems we now have the much anticipated mid-length field fleshed out a bit...would love any comparisons people have...

Armie mid's
Appleslice v3
KT Super K
Sunova Carver
Omen Flux
among others

I've put these off for now, as the DW board is getting me more time on foil where I'm at, but I can see eventually getting one as my second board...

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SpokeyDoke said..
Seems we now have the much anticipated mid-length field fleshed out a bit...would love any comparisons people have...

Armie mid's
Appleslice v3
KT Super K
Sunova Carver
Omen Flux
among others

I've put these off for now, as the DW board is getting me more time on foil where I'm at, but I can see eventually getting one as my second board...

Slice v3 is more conventional than the others, but I'm loving mine. The shape is super efficient - huge improvement in efficiency over the v2 (which I also liked). I have a 60L, 5'0 v3 and I'm 80kg (my v2 was 4'9 60L). Personally, I just dont need a longer board and appreciate being able to jump and ride more aggressively than a longer board. In fact I have a 5'7" skipper DW and don't find any material benefit vs the 5'0 Slice v3 (will probably end up selling it). I can work the v3 in sub 10 knots with a 5.7 wing and 1050 foil no problem. I don't need more low end than that and also don't need a bigger wing. I find the added length of the v3 versus the v2 more than offsets the reduced width in terms of stability. Haven't had any issues hooking up the harder chines.

Again - not sure it really belongs in this midlength category, other than the efficiency. For someone looking for a highly efficient board that doesn't want the added length, I think it is a phenomenal option. They did a great job with the design. I'm sure some of these purpose-built DW hybrids are more efficient, but getting a couple knots more low end (or using slightly smaller gear) wasn't worth the length tradeoff for me given that I ride this board strapped, want to be able to get through breaks (where board size makes it more challenging), and want to be able to jump. Kind of a different animal.

Compared to the v2 you could probably go at least 10 liters less on the v3 with no sacrifice. Bet its a similar dynamic to the Flux, but I haven't tried that board.

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SpokeyDoke said..
Seems we now have the much anticipated mid-length field fleshed out a bit...would love any comparisons people have...

Armie mid's
Appleslice v3
KT Super K
Sunova Carver
Omen Flux
among others

I've put these off for now, as the DW board is getting me more time on foil where I'm at, but I can see eventually getting one as my second board...

For me, the Carver was a huge leap forward over the Flux in every way. Haven't tried the others.

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SpokeyDoke said..
Taavi - more thoughts on that 70L Super K please! Particularly relevant comparisons if you have any...thanks

@SpokeyDoke Had a full day with a 60 L today, with a 746 cm2 foil. I think the 60 L version is the one for me. I mean, the 70 L does not float me back home either, if the wind drops too low, but such a shape is easy to swim back if necessary. Don't have any comparisons really, It does not feel too different from the Dragonfly (I have a 95 L 6'9'') - both are super reactive when doing rapid direction changes. This one, being more compact, is more forgiving. The thing I am most amped about this shape after 2 days of riding (received these only yesterday) is the rail clearance in the turns. You really don't even have to think about touching the water, nothing happens if you do, the touchdowns are that seamless. I think in our waves I would still prefer to ride this board strapless, and have a smaller Ginxu 2 or a Drifter 4 for riding with straps. Hope the waves will come soon.

And apologies for a long clip. Was such a great day.

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Taavi said..

SpokeyDoke said..
Taavi - more thoughts on that 70L Super K please! Particularly relevant comparisons if you have any...thanks

@SpokeyDoke Had a full day with a 60 L today, with a 746 cm2 foil. I think the 60 L version is the one for me. I mean, the 70 L does not float me back home either, if the wind drops too low, but such a shape is easy to swim back if necessary. Don't have any comparisons really, It does not feel too different from the Dragonfly (I have a 95 L 6'9'') - both are super reactive when doing rapid direction changes. This one, being more compact, is more forgiving. The thing I am most amped about this shape after 2 days of riding (received these only yesterday) is the rail clearance in the turns. You really don't even have to think about touching the water, nothing happens if you do, the touchdowns are that seamless. I think in our waves I would still prefer to ride this board strapless, and have a smaller Ginxu 2 or a Drifter 4 for riding with straps. Hope the waves will come soon.

And apologies for a long clip. Was such a great day.

Smooth tacks!

Any knowlege on the Pro 2? I'm surprised by the published 1kg increase over the SK for same volume boards. Maybe more beefed up for jumping?

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Hwy1North said..

Smooth tacks!

Any knowlege on the Pro 2? I'm surprised by the published 1kg increase over the SK for same volume boards. Maybe more beefed up for jumping?

Thnx. I did not place the pre-order early enough, so I am still waiting for a ginxu. Expect it to be a bit heavier than the drifter, but not that much as the first gen.

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Velocicraptor said..

SpokeyDoke said..
Seems we now have the much anticipated mid-length field fleshed out a bit...would love any comparisons people have...

Armie mid's
Appleslice v3
KT Super K
Sunova Carver
Omen Flux
among others

I've put these off for now, as the DW board is getting me more time on foil where I'm at, but I can see eventually getting one as my second board...

Slice v3 is more conventional than the others, but I'm loving mine. The shape is super efficient - huge improvement in efficiency over the v2 (which I also liked). I have a 60L, 5'0 v3 and I'm 80kg (my v2 was 4'9 60L). Personally, I just dont need a longer board and appreciate being able to jump and ride more aggressively than a longer board. In fact I have a 5'7" skipper DW and don't find any material benefit vs the 5'0 Slice v3 (will probably end up selling it). I can work the v3 in sub 10 knots with a 5.7 wing and 1050 foil no problem. I don't need more low end than that and also don't need a bigger wing. I find the added length of the v3 versus the v2 more than offsets the reduced width in terms of stability. Haven't had any issues hooking up the harder chines.

Again - not sure it really belongs in this midlength category, other than the efficiency. For someone looking for a highly efficient board that doesn't want the added length, I think it is a phenomenal option. They did a great job with the design. I'm sure some of these purpose-built DW hybrids are more efficient, but getting a couple knots more low end (or using slightly smaller gear) wasn't worth the length tradeoff for me given that I ride this board strapped, want to be able to get through breaks (where board size makes it more challenging), and want to be able to jump. Kind of a different animal.

Compared to the v2 you could probably go at least 10 liters less on the v3 with no sacrifice. Bet its a similar dynamic to the Flux, but I haven't tried that board.

Whoa! You're comparing two boards that I'm contemplating atm: the skipper DW and the Appleslice V3. I'm also coming off the Appleslice V2 (also the 60L) so we're in a very similar boat!

Agree that the stock Appleslice V3 is not in the same category as the other ones, it's slightly wider.

I was talking to Appletree to have a custom V3 made, but then 65L and only 19" wide. Thinking perhaps 20" is skinny enough and 19" is pushing it too much, but idk...

Reason I was thinking of going to 65L vs the 60L I had in the Appleslice V2, is bc I'm 85kg and lately have struggled to get the 60L out of the water in lighter winds.

Which size do you have the skipper DW in?

What makes you like the (stock) Slice V3 more than the skipper DW?

ps. happy to chat privately about this if I'm hijacking the thread :P

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greg87foil said..

Velocicraptor said..

SpokeyDoke said..
Seems we now have the much anticipated mid-length field fleshed out a bit...would love any comparisons people have...

Armie mid's
Appleslice v3
KT Super K
Sunova Carver
Omen Flux
among others

I've put these off for now, as the DW board is getting me more time on foil where I'm at, but I can see eventually getting one as my second board...

Slice v3 is more conventional than the others, but I'm loving mine. The shape is super efficient - huge improvement in efficiency over the v2 (which I also liked). I have a 60L, 5'0 v3 and I'm 80kg (my v2 was 4'9 60L). Personally, I just dont need a longer board and appreciate being able to jump and ride more aggressively than a longer board. In fact I have a 5'7" skipper DW and don't find any material benefit vs the 5'0 Slice v3 (will probably end up selling it). I can work the v3 in sub 10 knots with a 5.7 wing and 1050 foil no problem. I don't need more low end than that and also don't need a bigger wing. I find the added length of the v3 versus the v2 more than offsets the reduced width in terms of stability. Haven't had any issues hooking up the harder chines.

Again - not sure it really belongs in this midlength category, other than the efficiency. For someone looking for a highly efficient board that doesn't want the added length, I think it is a phenomenal option. They did a great job with the design. I'm sure some of these purpose-built DW hybrids are more efficient, but getting a couple knots more low end (or using slightly smaller gear) wasn't worth the length tradeoff for me given that I ride this board strapped, want to be able to get through breaks (where board size makes it more challenging), and want to be able to jump. Kind of a different animal.

Compared to the v2 you could probably go at least 10 liters less on the v3 with no sacrifice. Bet its a similar dynamic to the Flux, but I haven't tried that board.

Whoa! You're comparing two boards that I'm contemplating atm: the skipper DW and the Appleslice V3. I'm also coming off the Appleslice V2 (also the 60L) so we're in a very similar boat!

Agree that the stock Appleslice V3 is not in the same category as the other ones, it's slightly wider.

I was talking to Appletree to have a custom V3 made, but then 65L and only 19" wide. Thinking perhaps 20" is skinny enough and 19" is pushing it too much, but idk...

Reason I was thinking of going to 65L vs the 60L I had in the Appleslice V2, is bc I'm 85kg and lately have struggled to get the 60L out of the water in lighter winds.

Which size do you have the skipper DW in?

What makes you like the (stock) Slice V3 more than the skipper DW?

ps. happy to chat privately about this if I'm hijacking the thread :P

Sent you a PM.


my DW skipper is a 5'7" 80 liter. It's a custom size from last year.


the v3 at 5'0 and 60L has about the same low end as that board and it has quite a bit more low end than the v2. While the skipper is a more efficient hull, it is a lot more unstable when the conditions are challenging so you really don't get the low end benefit as much. I think a bit more length and a bit less volume on the DW skipper would work a lot better. The v3 is as stable as the v2 (a lot more stable than the skipper). The width works well on the board and I feel like it's a good compromise between efficiency and stability.


when it's clean the skipper DW is great. Any other times the v3 is perfect. V3 is much more versatile for me and is pretty much a single board quiver for what I'm looking to do. At least in the size that I have, the skipper DW isn't a single board quiver and has a more specific use case.
caveat that the new longer dimensions of the skipper may make that board more versatile.

I Tried last week for 3 days the Sab Torpedo 6.3x19.9x100l sabfoil.com/en/products/torpedo-100l .The Torpedo is a very good looking board and light as well with long boxes quite far forward , has strap options, but didnt use them because I always ride strapless. I used the board with my AFS Silk1050 and a AFS Pure1100 that I borrowed from the shop, my 5m and 4.3 Ozone Flux wings. in choppy/ bumpy conditions. I,m 188x97kg btw and normally riding an AK Phazer 5.6x90l and a KT5.4x22x56l

When climbing on the board the Torpedo is compared with my AK Phazer more floaty but also a lot less stable! Positive:
Once on the foil, the foil and foot position is more critical as with the Phazer as well, but when everything aligns the Torpedo feels a LOT smaller. Due to the central stance there is a lot less board in front you. That compared with the just not 20 wide its a dream when flying.
Riding waves and bumps with it was awesome and by far the best I have experienced with boards of this size. The feel is way closer to my KT5.4x22x56l as to my AK Phazer 5.6x90l....I think mostly thanks to it small width.
The full carbon set up feels very stiff and direct, appletree alike.


The downsides:
Getting going It didnt feel to me that the Torpedo is faster on the foil as the Phazer. This could be down to the messy conditions, but in the 3sessions I never had the idea that the extra length/less width helped with that.
When the wind died a bit and it was slogging and hoping for a gust to pump on the foil I felt of a couple of times and had in the messy waist high swell/chop a really hard time to get on the board. Even sitting on my knees I flipped over a lot! Even more as I,m used to on my on my 56l sinker board.
I reckon that this down to the very low width and thick shape making it prone to roll over. Probably not much of a problem in cleaner conditions, but for me quite a hassle and 20wide is just a in the small size for me (shoe size E47 doesnt help either with that).
When I brought the board back from the demo there was a just brought in KT SuperK80l and that board looks like magic. The SuperK92l is just a tad longer and wider+8l less so also less thick. Thanked for the demo and ordered a SuperK92 (6.5x22x92l).

I think floater or neutral boards in the sub 7ft, 20in or less size range are really challenging. 7ft plus, 8ft or more even better, and the stability seems to be ok for a floater. Otherwise -10L is the starting volume for the midlengths for me.

I think trying to pack 100L into 6'3"*20" just makes for a board which is too thick and corky. I'd rather a board stay thin and be stretched out in length.

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Svendson said..
I think floater or neutral boards in the sub 7ft, 20in or less size range are really challenging. 7ft plus, 8ft or more even better, and the stability seems to be ok for a floater. Otherwise -10L is the starting volume for the midlengths for me.

I got the Omen Flux 84L at 5'11 x 21.5" and I'm well over 100 kg with wetsuit in fresh water. So I would say -20L is doable for mid length. Couple of notes is that I sit in rodeo until wind comes. And then hold the wing in one hand and the board with the other as I knee up from stink bug. Now I'm heading downwind and when I grab the back handle, I'm really stable and I just stand up and start pumping. Very quick. Just need to be patient for a sustained gust. My first mistake was not going down wind enough because as soon as I would stand the board would point upwind and stall because the back of the board was submerged and dragging. These boards are great.

Interesting discussion regarding volume of these new gen boards. What's to consensus as a one board quiver in choppy 10knts+ conditions?

7'0" x 21" 65 L no problem starting in choppy water
6'2" x 21.5" 100L no problem starting in choppy water
5'2 x 21.5" 60 L sucks starting in choppy water
weight 85kg
still wanting to try a board around 40 - 45L, not had a chance yet

I'm a bit over 80kg, and with winter wetsuit etc. on I'm well over 85kg for sure. I have Armstron 85L 6'3 x 18.75", and it's a great board. Carving is really good due to width and it pumps and gain speed well. Just the width is the factor I would buy these narrower boards for sure. A. It more unstable side to side, but doable in heavy chop.

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SpokeyDoke said..

ninjatuna said..
7'0" x 21" 65 L no problem starting in choppy water

curious about this one...a production model? Seems to defy most specs...

NAISH S26 HOVER SURF ASCEND 7'0" CARBON ULTRA SUP FOIL BOARD
Length 7'0"Length cm213.4 cm
Width 1"/53.3 cm
Thickness 3 1/8"/7.9 cm
Volume 65 Lt

From the dimensions of your board it is similar to GONG Cruzader diamond FSP PRO 90 (5`10"/90l/20") which is even narrower than yours. There is a video from youtuber hoppline, where he talks about how unsatisfied is he with this board. He now rides Sabfoil Torpedo 90 and is happy. That would rather point to the board design. (sorry, as a new member I am not allowed to post links but you can find these videos easily on his channel).

Foilfox, maximising efficiency in each element of your setup. Have you tried a longer fuse with a wider tail for more pump, I have seen some riders on tiny front foils with a very long fuse and a fairly wide tail for pump. Did you see the winning combo in my post
"GoFoil light wind annihilation team", different boards, wings and foils, all pretty fun in very light wind.

I have had some fun waves with the KT Super K 60 L (5'9'' x 19.5'') lately. Both with some irregular bumps in a deeper bay, and with some cleaner swell lines as well. Can't even think of a better suited board for my type of riding. I wouldn't consider this size as a low end shape though (for ultimate low end a 95 L dragonfly still wins hands down for me, while keeping nearly the same super nimble and responsive feel), but it for sure helps to use nicer foils and smaller wings than other riders with more conventionally shaped boards are using around me. Having so much rail clearance is addictive - makes you want to do these banked carves close to the water all the time. No problem using a short 76 cm mast in the waves.

brilliant test of 75l Armi ML on Gleiten.TV with optional englisch subtitles !

?si=UFTWo2GrcmJ8wUd0