Select to expand quote

Velocicraptor said..

StephenZ said..

Im thinking of getting something similar made. Personally, I would be aiming for about 80 liters, 6 feet and 20 inches wide with long tracks. Ideally I could use such a board for sub 10 knots up to mid/high teens and maybe try some hand paddle downwinding as well. My primary board is 60L, 4'9" and I'm 80 kg.

The Axis hybrid 90L board is pretty close, but still wider than I would like.

As you are not trying to stand on it, at least not without a wing, I reckon you could go quite a bit narrower, 18" or maybe even 17".
I reckon 6" is the perfect length and body weight the perfect volume for the ultimate lightwind + downwind winging board. I've been considering getting one made - or even trying to make one myself - though it needs to be super-light to fully unlock the benefits, definitely less than 5kg.

Velocicraptor said..[/b]

For example if I can get up in 8 knots with a 7m wing on my -20 liter standard shaped board (4'9") could I use a 5m with a mini downwind board? How does the efficiency translate to wing size?

I reckon for sure. I've got a 6'3" x 23" DW board, I can get it up it in 14 knots with a 3m wing. The difference is at least one wing size smaller than a regular wing board.

6'3" x 23" validates the concept, and it's what I'm using to try learn downwind paddling, but it's in no way optimised for winging.

This is great intel. Thank you. Other than width, if you have any other suggestions for "optimizing for winging" I would be very curious to hear. Most of my design thoughts are extrapolated from SUP downwind, but I'm sure there are wing-specific tweaks that I should be thinking of. I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a custom...

I made a 6'3 x 23 based on the Kalama E3 last year, which is great fun for low wind winging. Hard work for paddling at my level and I am planning an 8'0 for that.

I've thought about making a low wind wing specific version. If I did, I'd be tempted to add a bit of extra volume in a nose bulb like the gong cruzader. My untested theory is that the bulb should compensate for the fact that you get less rebound from the narrower nose when standing up and pumping to get going.

Gong say the nose bulb also allows you to lower the deck and be closer to the foil while maintaining the same volume. It probably means a bit more swing weight but everything is a compromise.

The smallest cruzader is 6'0 x 18 x 6 11/16 for 92 litres, which is about the volume I'd be looking for, if not the exact combination of dimensions.

Select to expand quote

edham said..

Velocicraptor said..

StephenZ said..

Im thinking of getting something similar made. Personally, I would be aiming for about 80 liters, 6 feet and 20 inches wide with long tracks. Ideally I could use such a board for sub 10 knots up to mid/high teens and maybe try some hand paddle downwinding as well. My primary board is 60L, 4'9" and I'm 80 kg.

The Axis hybrid 90L board is pretty close, but still wider than I would like.

As you are not trying to stand on it, at least not without a wing, I reckon you could go quite a bit narrower, 18" or maybe even 17".
I reckon 6" is the perfect length and body weight the perfect volume for the ultimate lightwind + downwind winging board. I've been considering getting one made - or even trying to make one myself - though it needs to be super-light to fully unlock the benefits, definitely less than 5kg.

Velocicraptor said..[/b]

For example if I can get up in 8 knots with a 7m wing on my -20 liter standard shaped board (4'9") could I use a 5m with a mini downwind board? How does the efficiency translate to wing size?

I reckon for sure. I've got a 6'3" x 23" DW board, I can get it up it in 14 knots with a 3m wing. The difference is at least one wing size smaller than a regular wing board.

6'3" x 23" validates the concept, and it's what I'm using to try learn downwind paddling, but it's in no way optimised for winging.

This is great intel. Thank you. Other than width, if you have any other suggestions for "optimizing for winging" I would be very curious to hear. Most of my design thoughts are extrapolated from SUP downwind, but I'm sure there are wing-specific tweaks that I should be thinking of. I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a custom...

I made a 6'3 x 23 based on the Kalama E3 last year, which is great fun for low wind winging. Hard work for paddling at my level and I am planning an 8'0 for that.

I've thought about making a low wind wing specific version. If I did, I'd be tempted to add a bit of extra volume in a nose bulb like the gong cruzader. My untested theory is that the bulb should compensate for the fact that you get less rebound from the narrower nose when standing up and pumping to get going.

Gong say the nose bulb also allows you to lower the deck and be closer to the foil while maintaining the same volume. It probably means a bit more swing weight but everything is a compromise.

The smallest cruzader is 6'0 x 18 x 6 11/16 for 92 litres, which is about the volume I'd be looking for, if not the exact combination of dimensions.

Curious how much you weigh and what the volume of your 6'3" is? Im looking at similar dims to the Gong, but thinner / lower volume (probably ~80L) for my 80kg. Good note on the nose volume.

Select to expand quote

Velocicraptor said..

edham said..

Velocicraptor said..

StephenZ said..

Im thinking of getting something similar made. Personally, I would be aiming for about 80 liters, 6 feet and 20 inches wide with long tracks. Ideally I could use such a board for sub 10 knots up to mid/high teens and maybe try some hand paddle downwinding as well. My primary board is 60L, 4'9" and I'm 80 kg.

The Axis hybrid 90L board is pretty close, but still wider than I would like.

As you are not trying to stand on it, at least not without a wing, I reckon you could go quite a bit narrower, 18" or maybe even 17".
I reckon 6" is the perfect length and body weight the perfect volume for the ultimate lightwind + downwind winging board. I've been considering getting one made - or even trying to make one myself - though it needs to be super-light to fully unlock the benefits, definitely less than 5kg.

Velocicraptor said..[/b]

For example if I can get up in 8 knots with a 7m wing on my -20 liter standard shaped board (4'9") could I use a 5m with a mini downwind board? How does the efficiency translate to wing size?

I reckon for sure. I've got a 6'3" x 23" DW board, I can get it up it in 14 knots with a 3m wing. The difference is at least one wing size smaller than a regular wing board.

6'3" x 23" validates the concept, and it's what I'm using to try learn downwind paddling, but it's in no way optimised for winging.

This is great intel. Thank you. Other than width, if you have any other suggestions for "optimizing for winging" I would be very curious to hear. Most of my design thoughts are extrapolated from SUP downwind, but I'm sure there are wing-specific tweaks that I should be thinking of. I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a custom...

I made a 6'3 x 23 based on the Kalama E3 last year, which is great fun for low wind winging. Hard work for paddling at my level and I am planning an 8'0 for that.

I've thought about making a low wind wing specific version. If I did, I'd be tempted to add a bit of extra volume in a nose bulb like the gong cruzader. My untested theory is that the bulb should compensate for the fact that you get less rebound from the narrower nose when standing up and pumping to get going.

Gong say the nose bulb also allows you to lower the deck and be closer to the foil while maintaining the same volume. It probably means a bit more swing weight but everything is a compromise.

The smallest cruzader is 6'0 x 18 x 6 11/16 for 92 litres, which is about the volume I'd be looking for, if not the exact combination of dimensions.

Curious how much you weigh and what the volume of your 6'3" is? Im looking at similar dims to the Gong, but thinner / lower volume (probably ~80L) for my 80kg. Good note on the nose volume.

I'm about 90kgs. Not sure of the volume of the 6'3. My guess is about 110 litres.

The 6'3 already takes off pretty easily in light wind, so making a narrower one isn't a high priority for me.

I suspect going from 23" to say 20" wide (or even narrower) would be fine for knee balancing in flat water but would take me a while to get used to in chop or waves. But if you are already on a 60L board for 80kgs, it's probably not an issue.

For me I like a board with positive volume in very light wind. I'm on 6'3x24x101L downwind Sup at 85kg. I can stand up and taxi before foiling on this size. I find it much easier on the body and it's easier to see gusts coming across water when standing. Don't see any real benefits in going less volume for light wind.
I'm mainly using a 1000cm2 or 1150cm2 foil and 4m Smikv3 as my biggest wing.

Select to expand quote

NicoDC said..

camerongraham said..
I recently acquired a used Kalama E3
6'1" x 23" @ 105 litres
I've only used it for winging so far and it is simply awesome, stable to stand on (80kg), gets up and flying easily and turns really well.

Can you compare your E3 to other boards in similarly light wind conditions?

No, because I haven't ridden the smaller boards at all since I got the Kalama
It has been on my "to do" list and next time I go out I'll use the 72litre 5' wingboard so I can see if the smaller length and volume are of benefit once up and flying. I've also recently acquired a 4'9" 38litre Sunova Pilot prone board so I'm keen to do a full sinker start on that and see how that flys when I have enough wind

Had a fun session today on the 6'3" Armie DW board (85L to my 65kgs) with a 5M Glide and 925/205 combo. Wind was super light on launch then went strong so I got to session in up and down conditions. Getting up as soon as the wing has any sort of forward drive is amazing. Just sort of steer the board for forward speed and a few rear calf / foot pumps and presto.

I also got to take advantage of a local university's sailing teams course buoys for a fun upwind/downwind/reach/downwind/upwind race with a friend (3km). Super fun and close race with two falls right before the finish on some tight upwind transitions. The DW board made it simple to get going agains quick. Took the W by less than 30 secs.
I had been torn which board to take out, but the DW board was a blast. Didn't miss anything on the 60L other than airtime. Still not sure what will happen on a high speed touchdown so that had a bit nervous on the long broad reach, neck and neck with my buddy.

www.instagram.com/reel/CqzfQu8AoxF/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

The new DW boards plus the supersized new HA wings have extended the wind range for winging dramatically. Now high performance winging is possible in a light sea breeze, which opens up a lot of summer days.

Here's a video of a very good winger "blasting" in "five" knots of wind.

Not sure what is High Performance Winging in that video. Some of my friend reduced considerably their "hand wing" with the DW board, so it can take off way sooner with less hand wing for same wind. I think what is brillant with that concept is you are able to reduce considerably the front wing and you are way faster than the wind, smaller foil has less drag...slow down less...and have a smaller hand wing.How much wind it takes to make a wing to flag by itself? Because I doubt you can take off if the wing doesn't flat by itself regarding the board and foil.

So whats the bottom line? Will a "DW" style pointy board give the same extra wind range as the next size up wing?

For example I'm 220 lbs on a fantatic 75L with a 1210 and a 4.5M ding as my daily. Will a pointy board(with the right technique of course) give the same lightwind range bump with my 4.5 as i'd get with my next size wing the 6.2? I hate my big wings, like being less powered once on foil, and generally would rather own hardgoods than softgoods(more durable, cheaper long term). I'll also add that i'm not interested in bigger foils.(1210 is plenty)

Select to expand quote

TooMuchEpoxy said..
So whats the bottom line? Will a "DW" style pointy board give the same extra wind range as the next size up wing?

For example I'm 220 lbs on a fantatic 75L with a 1210 and a 4.5M ding as my daily. Will a pointy board(with the right technique of course) give the same lightwind range bump with my 4.5 as i'd get with my next size wing the 6.2? I hate my big wings, like being less powered once on foil, and generally would rather own hardgoods than softgoods(more durable, cheaper long term). I'll also add that i'm not interested in bigger foils.(1210 is plenty)

It's a great question.

My experience is that the board only makes it easier from let's say 7 knots and up but I don't think it extends the range in any way. I find I can get up with a board that is about 80% of my weight in volume and still not have enough wind for the size foil and wing to be adequately powered , needing to pump a little to keep going. So I would say if your good at pumping with the wing and foil to get the board off the water then the limiting factors are wing and foil size not board.

Maybe down at 5 knots, with an adequately sized wing and foil a dw style might be the difference between getting off the water and not getting off the water because the wing is so big you can't pump it. So it might be fair to say that when your weight is such for a given foil and wind speed that the wing necessary is so big you can't pump it then the board is going to help.
It's surprising how many very good wingers still don't pump of the water well.

Select to expand quote

AnyBoard said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
So whats the bottom line? Will a "DW" style pointy board give the same extra wind range as the next size up wing?

For example I'm 220 lbs on a fantatic 75L with a 1210 and a 4.5M ding as my daily. Will a pointy board(with the right technique of course) give the same lightwind range bump with my 4.5 as i'd get with my next size wing the 6.2? I hate my big wings, like being less powered once on foil, and generally would rather own hardgoods than softgoods(more durable, cheaper long term). I'll also add that i'm not interested in bigger foils.(1210 is plenty)

It's a great question.

My experience is that the board only makes it easier from let's say 7 knots and up but I don't think it extends the range in any way. I find I can get up with a board that is about 80% of my weight in volume and still not have enough wind for the size foil and wing to be adequately powered , needing to pump a little to keep going. So I would say if your good at pumping with the wing and foil to get the board off the water then the limiting factors are wing and foil size not board.

Maybe down at 5 knots, with an adequately sized wing and foil a dw style might be the difference between getting off the water and not getting off the water because the wing is so big you can't pump it. So it might be fair to say that when your weight is such for a given foil and wind speed that the wing necessary is so big you can't pump it then the board is going to help.
It's surprising how many very good wingers still don't pump of the water well.

I don't bother with the ding in under 15! I'm definitely one of those wingers who is good but can't pump! Coming from kite foil and prone surf foil I also never really got the reps in getting it up and it's the one skill that doesn't translate. I think it's also foil size. I refuse to even consider something bigger than that 1210. I'll give a friends DW a try and hopefully report back.

For me, I'm switching to downwind boards in all winds.

At 190lbs I've been riding the kalama e3 4'8"x26" 83l and while it's a ton of fun in the air, the water starts were always marginal and since I don't wear a harness, I definitely found situations where my arms would pump out from using larger wings after a 1-2 hour session.

Last week I picked up an 8'0" x 21" 112l Barracuda to learn to surf and downwind on. I've taken it out twice to feel different foils under it and to get a sense of where I need to be standing after paddling up onto foil. All it took was one session to become fully committed. Now, I can ride a 2.5m wing in 20 knots and put in 4 hour sessions without my arms ever getting fatigued. I don't feel like I've lost a ton of playfulness in the board. My 4'8" at 83l is almost the exact same weight as my new 8'0" at 112l. Waterstarts are extremely easy, touch downs are no big deal, you just skip off the water.

The two negatives I've found are:
1. I'm short and wrapping my arm around a 21" board isn't secure enough to walk in windy conditions. I've been trying to sort the best way to carry a board and wing, but it's funny for sure.

2. It's slightly more pitch sensitive on the water. I believe this will vanish from notice once I am more comfortable with the board.

I currently ride the Kujira 1210 and 1500 and am doing demos on Progression 170, Hyper2 250, Cloud 9 1150 and 750.

I don't do any jumping (save that for kiting! haha), so after my first day on the barracuda I decided to sell my wing dedicated boards. (I just ride surf and swell) I could see getting a shorter downwind board in the future if I wanted to stick with winging, but I don't think anyone will see me on a "normal" wing board ever again.

Since I picked up my 6'3" 86L Armie DW board, I've used it for 85% of my sessions. Yesterday I was psyched to get back on my 60L and longer mast to get some race practice in (i'm 65kgs). By the time I got to the spot, the wind had dropped and I didn't have my DW board. Wind was 8-13mph and I had my 5M and 1125 foil. I spent half my session hunting for gusts to get on foil, and the times I was on foil, I didn't want to try anything challenging to avoid the schlog. With the river current opposing the wind direction the bumps were amazing and I was cursing myself for not bringing my DW board (and anchorman leash). I would have been on foil 99% of the time and had a blast.

New rule for me: If there's a chance of the wind being less than 15MPH, I'm planning on the DW board. If it's supposed to be 15-25MPH steady, 60L. If its 20+, break out the prone 34L.

www.instagram.com/reel/CrgzfgRgm7W/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

I believe they cut down an Amos Sultan to 5'10" x 18"
Mr.Bennets pulling g's on it...

I doubt we see anything except beginner boards wider than 24" within a year.

Select to expand quote

Grantmac said..
I doubt we see anything except beginner boards wider than 24" within a year.

Are you referring to DW boards?

Select to expand quote

mcrt said..
www.instagram.com/reel/CrgzfgRgm7W/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

I believe they cut down an Amos Sultan to 5'10" x 18"
Mr.Bennets pulling g's on it...

Yeah that clip of Mr Bennets made me rethink wingboard design. For surf and downwind longer and narrower is key. Gets going alot sooner, lays over really nicely in turns and just generally looks alot more natural on a wave. Short and nuggety would probably still be better for freestyle but for my next board I am thinking long and narrow.

Select to expand quote

Youngbreezy said..

mcrt said..
www.instagram.com/reel/CrgzfgRgm7W/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

I believe they cut down an Amos Sultan to 5'10" x 18"
Mr.Bennets pulling g's on it...

Yeah that clip of Mr Bennets made me rethink wingboard design. For surf and downwind longer and narrower is key. Gets going alot sooner, lays over really nicely in turns and just generally looks alot more natural on a wave. Short and nuggety would probably still be better for freestyle but for my next board I am thinking long and narrow.

I mean - as impressive as the video is...does it have anything to do with the board? There's not a clip of him getting it onto foil. Literally nothing about that video has anything to do with the board except for maybe being able to rail it over super hard because it so skinny, which, neat i guess...doesn't reall apply to my riding. He barely even touches the wing!

Select to expand quote

TooMuchEpoxy said..

Youngbreezy said..

mcrt said..
www.instagram.com/reel/CrgzfgRgm7W/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

I believe they cut down an Amos Sultan to 5'10" x 18"
Mr.Bennets pulling g's on it...

Yeah that clip of Mr Bennets made me rethink wingboard design. For surf and downwind longer and narrower is key. Gets going alot sooner, lays over really nicely in turns and just generally looks alot more natural on a wave. Short and nuggety would probably still be better for freestyle but for my next board I am thinking long and narrow.

I mean - as impressive as the video is...does it have anything to do with the board? There's not a clip of him getting it onto foil. Literally nothing about that video has anything to do with the board except for maybe being able to rail it over super hard because it so skinny, which, neat i guess...doesn't reall apply to my riding. He barely even touches the wing!

There is what he says in the comments...he can ride a smaller foil and use a smaller wing because the board goes up on foil better than a lunchtray.

I think that with a lightweight construction this longer,narrower,semi displacement hull shapes might be the best allround boards for most riders.

But i would like to see some head to head testing.I guess it will take some time to define what is optimal.

As of now wing racers are still riding lunchtrays frim what i see in vids and pics , they do look longer (5 feet?) and skinnier(21inch?) ,with a more pinched tail than last season but not totally mini Barracudas.

I am about to order a custom shape and kind of torn...5x22x80l or 6x18x80l ??
Dunno :)

Select to expand quote

DavidJohn said..

Grantmac said..
I doubt we see anything except beginner boards wider than 24" within a year.

Are you referring to DW boards?

All foil boards except windfoil.
But prone, wing and SUP definitely. Just different lengths and volumes to match use.

Select to expand quote

mcrt said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

Youngbreezy said..

mcrt said..
www.instagram.com/reel/CrgzfgRgm7W/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

I believe they cut down an Amos Sultan to 5'10" x 18"
Mr.Bennets pulling g's on it...

Yeah that clip of Mr Bennets made me rethink wingboard design. For surf and downwind longer and narrower is key. Gets going alot sooner, lays over really nicely in turns and just generally looks alot more natural on a wave. Short and nuggety would probably still be better for freestyle but for my next board I am thinking long and narrow.

I mean - as impressive as the video is...does it have anything to do with the board? There's not a clip of him getting it onto foil. Literally nothing about that video has anything to do with the board except for maybe being able to rail it over super hard because it so skinny, which, neat i guess...doesn't reall apply to my riding. He barely even touches the wing!

There is what he says in the comments...he can ride a smaller foil and use a smaller wing because the board goes up on foil better than a lunchtray.

I think that with a lightweight construction this longer,narrower,semi displacement hull shapes might be the best allround boards for most riders.

But i would like to see some head to head testing.I guess it will take some time to define what is optimal.

As of now wing racers are still riding lunchtrays frim what i see in vids and pics , they do look longer (5 feet?) and skinnier(21inch?) ,with a more pinched tail than last season but not totally mini Barracudas.

I am about to order a custom shape and kind of torn...5x22x80l or 6x18x80l ??
Dunno :)

How you getting a 5x22 at 80L must be super thick or really square ?
I was torn as well but went 5'3 x 23 83L with pulled in tail 5kg with pad

Naish has a 7'4" x 25" board coming out. Anyone ride one yet. About to pull the trigger but is 25" too wide for the promise of getting up in super light wind? Or does the length balance that out? Also, the tracks are only 10". I'm wondering if there will be an issue with my Axis foil set with regular "short" fuse which is really standard for winging.

Select to expand quote

JakeDawg69 said..
Naish has a 7'4" x 25" board coming out. Anyone ride one yet. About to pull the trigger but is 25" too wide for the promise of getting up in super light wind? Or does the length balance that out? Also, the tracks are only 10". I'm wondering if there will be an issue with my Axis foil set with regular "short" fuse which is really standard for winging.

Rode the 7'4" today in light (6.5m DLAB) and high wind (3.5m Unit). I was using the AXIS 1310, crazy short fuse, 320 rear.

In light wind, it moves quickly on the water, so a couple wing pumps and I simply popped up and discovered I needed to be standing further forward. Once that was sorted I was fine.

There is some swing weight, but nothing really disturbing. I had no issues pumping the board through lulls, so pleased with it as a lightwind board.

Tacks and gybes were all easy.

I then rode it in 15 to 25 knots and used the same foil and a 3.5 unit. I was able to pump the board up (not as easily as a short board), but the pumping allowed me engage the foil somewhat and build up the necessary speed to pop up.

The higher wind had no effect on the behaviour of the board.

I did some crawling around in the ripples at 15 knot mark and the somewhat rounded sides do cause board to slide side to side, but pretty manageable.

I give it a big tick.

Select to expand quote

leepasty said..

mcrt said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

Youngbreezy said..

mcrt said..
www.instagram.com/reel/CrgzfgRgm7W/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

I believe they cut down an Amos Sultan to 5'10" x 18"
Mr.Bennets pulling g's on it...

Yeah that clip of Mr Bennets made me rethink wingboard design. For surf and downwind longer and narrower is key. Gets going alot sooner, lays over really nicely in turns and just generally looks alot more natural on a wave. Short and nuggety would probably still be better for freestyle but for my next board I am thinking long and narrow.

I mean - as impressive as the video is...does it have anything to do with the board? There's not a clip of him getting it onto foil. Literally nothing about that video has anything to do with the board except for maybe being able to rail it over super hard because it so skinny, which, neat i guess...doesn't reall apply to my riding. He barely even touches the wing!

There is what he says in the comments...he can ride a smaller foil and use a smaller wing because the board goes up on foil better than a lunchtray.

I think that with a lightweight construction this longer,narrower,semi displacement hull shapes might be the best allround boards for most riders.

But i would like to see some head to head testing.I guess it will take some time to define what is optimal.

As of now wing racers are still riding lunchtrays frim what i see in vids and pics , they do look longer (5 feet?) and skinnier(21inch?) ,with a more pinched tail than last season but not totally mini Barracudas.

I am about to order a custom shape and kind of torn...5x22x80l or 6x18x80l ??
Dunno :)

How you getting a 5x22 at 80L must be super thick or really square ?
I was torn as well but went 5'3 x 23 83L with pulled in tail 5kg with pad

Looks very sweet!!
Is it your own shape or ordered?.
How does it ride?

Select to expand quote

edham said..

Velocicraptor said..

StephenZ said..

Im thinking of getting something similar made. Personally, I would be aiming for about 80 liters, 6 feet and 20 inches wide with long tracks. Ideally I could use such a board for sub 10 knots up to mid/high teens and maybe try some hand paddle downwinding as well. My primary board is 60L, 4'9" and I'm 80 kg.

The Axis hybrid 90L board is pretty close, but still wider than I would like.

As you are not trying to stand on it, at least not without a wing, I reckon you could go quite a bit narrower, 18" or maybe even 17".
I reckon 6" is the perfect length and body weight the perfect volume for the ultimate lightwind + downwind winging board. I've been considering getting one made - or even trying to make one myself - though it needs to be super-light to fully unlock the benefits, definitely less than 5kg.

Velocicraptor said..[/b]

For example if I can get up in 8 knots with a 7m wing on my -20 liter standard shaped board (4'9") could I use a 5m with a mini downwind board? How does the efficiency translate to wing size?

I reckon for sure. I've got a 6'3" x 23" DW board, I can get it up it in 14 knots with a 3m wing. The difference is at least one wing size smaller than a regular wing board.

6'3" x 23" validates the concept, and it's what I'm using to try learn downwind paddling, but it's in no way optimised for winging.

This is great intel. Thank you. Other than width, if you have any other suggestions for "optimizing for winging" I would be very curious to hear. Most of my design thoughts are extrapolated from SUP downwind, but I'm sure there are wing-specific tweaks that I should be thinking of. I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a custom...

I made a 6'3 x 23 based on the Kalama E3 last year, which is great fun for low wind winging. Hard work for paddling at my level and I am planning an 8'0 for that.

I've thought about making a low wind wing specific version. If I did, I'd be tempted to add a bit of extra volume in a nose bulb like the gong cruzader. My untested theory is that the bulb should compensate for the fact that you get less rebound from the narrower nose when standing up and pumping to get going.

Gong say the nose bulb also allows you to lower the deck and be closer to the foil while maintaining the same volume. It probably means a bit more swing weight but everything is a compromise.

The smallest cruzader is 6'0 x 18 x 6 11/16 for 92 litres, which is about the volume I'd be looking for, if not the exact combination of dimensions.

I plan on using a flat deck and nose bulb, i think it compensates por the decreasing nose volume as bottom rocker rises and outline narrows.
It allows for a more centered stance when schlogging and therefore a more fwd foil.
I think overall it will reduce pitch inertia.
If you look at these AFS ,Gong and Fone boards in the pic they are using this concept, and the straps position is really fwd.

Select to expand quote

JakeDawg69 said..
Naish has a 7'4" x 25" board coming out. Anyone ride one yet. About to pull the trigger but is 25" too wide for the promise of getting up in super light wind? Or does the length balance that out? Also, the tracks are only 10". I'm wondering if there will be an issue with my Axis foil set with regular "short" fuse which is really standard for winging.

I'd encourage you to demo something narrower than that before pulling the trigger on a brand new board. I don't think I would ever buy a 25" wide board again for the type of riding I do (downwind and surf). I have had ZERO issues stepping down from my 4'8" 26" Kalama (which is actually kind of hard to start on) to my 8'0" 21" Barracuda, which is extremely easy to start on.

The widest board in the KT Surfing Ginxu Dragonfly lineup is 22" at 135l. Narrowest is 18" and I wouldn't be afraid to try the 18" if I got the chance.

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JakeDawg69 said..
Naish has a 7'4" x 25" board coming out. Anyone ride one yet. About to pull the trigger but is 25" too wide for the promise of getting up in super light wind? Or does the length balance that out? Also, the tracks are only 10". I'm wondering if there will be an issue with my Axis foil set with regular "short" fuse which is really standard for winging.

Here's my 2 cents -- the width may impact speed a little but will give you more stability, which might be a positive small tradeoff for learning. Also, make sure the foils you plan to use with it will work with the mast track location -- the Axis probably will. You may find, as I have with my Armstrong DW board, certain foils will not work. Fortunately, I have other foils that will. My Kujira 1440, which goes at the front of the track in my older wing board, goes almost at the very rear of the track in the Armstrong DW board. I have a huge Sab HA foil which I haven't been able to make work in the Armstrong DW board -- even at the back of track with the stab shimmed for less lift the foil has too much lift for my weight (71 kilos).

I am looking for the downwind/low wind board but the new prices are really high.
After some search I found that Takuma in 2020 produced sup ZK 6' which is not very wide (26") and the shape is quite slim, to be possible to glide and get up in low wind.
But I found no info on the web about it. May be someone used and could share his opinion?

i've been riding a ONE ocean EGG 6'1" x 25 x 108L with a 5M Glide and PNG1300 on HM90/sillyshort/350Prear setup and it's like cheating in light wind. however, not steady light wind, gusty/mega holey light wind... 6-8knt avg but 10-12 gusts... pumps thru some pretty big holes... i'm sure a bigger wing/small foil would be fun too... and prolly needed to get up in steady sub 10knts... i drop to 1099/899 setup as soon as possible (14kn gusts)

next board will def be a 18-20" wide 6'-6'6" +10-20L (on my 80kg) so 90-100L small dw sup... malolo, E3, etc...