sunsetsailboards said..
Phantasm line isn't 5 years old it came out mid to late 2021, and honestly those masts were already super soft even for that time period.

While SAB is one of the companies that actually seems to have some focus on freestyle, if you want to change to a different brand, I think you'll find others out there with better masts and components compared to SAB. The standard Kraken masts are outdated compared to what else is on offer from AFS, F-One, Duotone, Armstrong, etc...

SAB stuff is generally pretty strong though.

As far as mast/fuselage/wing integration goes, Duotone D/LAB is one of my favorites the way everything fits together... their Carve 2.0 (and soon 3.0) line is what their freestyle team uses. For AFS, it's the Pure 700/900 lineup. Not sure about Armstrong and F-One as I don't sell those brands.

noepoxy said..
I'm 98kg +, foiling for 6 years, and use the E1300/1100 and the UHM 80cm mast, I've only experienced a couple of times the wobble that you mention, not sure if mast, or wing, it never threw me off or put me off a line so I can live with it and no different from code/unifoil/sabfoil/axis/gofoil, but on closer inspection with AFS it was the front wing screw slowly working lose winging in overhead waves and pushing the system to the limit. I first looked at duotone but they only do the dlab slim version with a small chord and narrow mast catered for small riders, so our cohort of 90+kgs is not catered for.

I've had a worse experience recently on an axis PCHM 82cm mast with the 1201, 1180 etc plus you get movement in their mast to fuselage connection too, and this design requires stronger foils (fireballs) at extra cost $$$ for the design constraints of the fuse to front wing connection. As others have said, pick your medicine. For me, I'm happy with AFS, I don't jump unless kiting and have 2 years + 10 months left with the 3 year mast warranty.

I didn't try the new Armstrong masts, they may be good, but after the first batch of noodles and a dozen bolts to hold the system together just reeks of a design issue not yet addressed....

FWIW when I was searching for a new brand this year I dismissed all brands that have a legacy male to female mast to fuselage connection as at my weight one always feels movement and they wear out quickly IMO and I am not of a fan of this design. This did not leave many brands to choose from, maybe KT could be good, but the mast may not be as efficient...but they may be releasing a new mast soon...

Good luck with your endeavour to find something that does not exist for our weight category (yet), a 13.5 mm thick, narrow chord, fast and efficient mast that has no flex whatsoever. If you find it let us know.

Faff said..




F-One is similar to Duotone D/LAB (or rather, the other way around). On the plus side, even tails are now monobloc, super-streamlined (M6 bolts for everything, even the mast plate). On the downside (maybe, depending on your weight),.. M6 bolts. F-One also has a complete monobloc plane www.f-one.world/product/escape-hm-carbon/. AFAIK, it was meant for kitefoiling, but freestylers use it in competition. It's super light, with massive pop for its size.

sunsetsailboards said..




hah I would say Duotone is more similar to F-One than the other way around.. but a lot of other companies are doing the front wing integrated with the front half of the fuselage: Lift, Code, Uni, just to name a few. One of the neat tings about the Duotone version is how the fuselage joint is integrated with the mast to fuselage bolts. Lots of ways to do things well and some of it comes down to execution no matter how good or bad the design is. I have traveled with Monobloc foils, and luckily it fit in my board bag... one unexpected benefit was not having to assemble the plane or look for lost screws haha. Lots of good stuff out there right now.

sunsetsailboards said..




hah I would say Duotone is more similar to F-One than the other way around.. but a lot of other companies are doing the front wing integrated with the front half of the fuselage: Lift, Code, Uni, just to name a few. One of the neat tings about the Duotone version is how the fuselage joint is integrated with the mast to fuselage bolts. Lots of ways to do things well and some of it comes down to execution no matter how good or bad the design is. I have traveled with Monobloc foils, and luckily it fit in my board bag... one unexpected benefit was not having to assemble the plane or look for lost screws haha. Lots of good stuff out there right now.

Faff said..











I will never buy a non-monobloc foil. The less connections, the better. But the mast-fuse joint must be like what F-One or Duotone D/Lab have. I had a Cabrinha foil, where the mast is inserted into the fuse/front-wing, and the connection got loose quite quickly. So that eliminates a lot of foils.

TooMuchEpoxy said..


I agree that the cab connection sucked but my takeaway is that carbon fuses are the issue. My current north setup (with aluminum fuse) is way stiffer than any monobloc. As for the front wing connection it's great, no movement, less flex than the carbon fuses.

SA_AL said..Two weeks ago, I rode the AFS Enduro 1300 and 900, but noticed significant wobbling. In contrast, when I used the SAB 83 (thicker than the UHM AFS ) mast with the 999 and 1100 wings (which the latter is considerably larger than the Enduro 1300), it was incredibly stable and solid. Based on my experience, the SAB setup is exceptionally reliable and I prefer stiffness at the sacrifice of some speed. However, I'm concerned about the aging system of SAB also, not sure if I want to invest in the Kraken system. The AFS is likely excellent for lighter riders, but anyone over 200 lbs might find the flexing to be an issue.

hilly said..


I went from a Code plus mast 80cm to an AFS UHM 80cm mast and there is no wobble with the 900 enduro. Overall, it felt just as stiff as the Code mast with less drag. Surprised you have that feeling. I am 90kg. The AFS mast/fuse connection is very stiff with no chance of play if correctly tensioned. The Code connection can wear and get play, which is easily fixed with a coat of epoxy, some foils fitted better than others. Both great foils.

SA_AL said..



Two weeks ago, I rode the AFS Enduro 1300 and 900, but noticed significant wobbling. In contrast, when I used the SAB 83 (thicker than the UHM AFS ) mast with the 999 and 1100 wings (which the latter is considerably larger than the Enduro 1300), it was incredibly stable and solid. Based on my experience, the SAB setup is exceptionally reliable and I prefer stiffness at the sacrifice of some speed. However, I'm concerned about the aging system of SAB also, not sure if I want to invest in the Kraken system. The AFS is likely excellent for lighter riders, but anyone over 200 lbs might find the flexing to be an issue.

martyman said..




Which AFS are you using? I'm 220 and using the 1100 and 1300. 80uhm mast with no wobble isues at all.

SA_AL said..








I used 80 UHM Advanced skinny mast 1300 and 900. I truly wanted this especially considering high speed experience with 900. However it was not as stable as the SAB foil I later demo.

foilthegreats said..






The 80cm UHM is not a skinny mast and is super stiff. The skinny is available only in 75cm and 85cm currently and yes you will trade stiffness for more speed/glide.
afs-foiling.com/product/uhm-skinny-carbon-mast/
afs-foiling.com/product/mat-uhm/

SA_AL said..




This is the UHM mast I used (picture below)

SA_AL said..




Your link of the AFS skinny mast is for dockstart not for the wingfoiling. If you use the wingfoil link it shows the mast I mentioned

As everyone is saying if you used a skinny mast it is different to the UHM normal mast and not as stiff.

SA_AL said..





That was not everyone was saying. Earlier someone else also noted what I mentioned for wobbling. I do not want to end up highly expensive gear if there is an issue for heavy riders. Also note that I am mainly wingfoiling not DW.

hilly said..





Please read carefully. I am talking about the mast not your wobble issue. You stated you used a skinny mast. That is different to the UHM 80cm mast I use. The use of the skinny mast may have been the issue.