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Windoc said..
I just picked up the 725 and had my first session on it. 90kgs, 5.2 Takuma wing, 85, V-tail, -1 shim, position 8 in Armstrong board. Wind was 15-18 knots. What a little rocket! As you'd imagine, it needs a little more forward speed to start lifting, but once up it's super efficient. Glide was pretty good if you have enough swell or wave power. Seemed easy enough to ride out of the box which was a huge surprise at my level. So far I've ridden the 1125, 925 and now 725 and they all feel very similar. What's really cool about the 725 is that it responds to a quick yaw motion to the outside of the turn before really railing; the feeling is pretty electric. And this is riding the Armstrong 5.11! Can't imagine how good it'll feel on the small board (I'm travelling and brought one board for SUP and wing). One interesting thing is that around the 35-40+km/h mark, the foil or V-tail was absolutely shrieking. Need to figure out which foil is the culprit; front or back. My 925 with V tail does this to a much lesser extent. For now it's just the sound of speeeeeed! Going to be tough to choose between the HA wings. They seem to all work quite well in similar wind strengths but the 725 needs a grunty wing in lighter air.

Sick! Yeah, it is tough to choose between the HA wings, as they are pretty versatile. I listen to music while I wing on a waterproof speaker on my shoulder. So for me, it's kinda like, 'what type of music do I want to jam to?' If its something fast paced - hard rock, punk, etc, I will gravitate to the smaller 725 or 925. If I'm in a chill mood, I'll go 1125 or 1325.

Just picked mine up today. Based on what I'm reading in this thread, the 725 is going to be a lot of fun when the wind finally comes back.

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Foilnut said..

Windoc said..
I just picked up the 725 and had my first session on it. 90kgs, 5.2 Takuma wing, 85, V-tail, -1 shim, position 8 in Armstrong board. Wind was 15-18 knots. What a little rocket! As you'd imagine, it needs a little more forward speed to start lifting, but once up it's super efficient. Glide was pretty good if you have enough swell or wave power. Seemed easy enough to ride out of the box which was a huge surprise at my level. So far I've ridden the 1125, 925 and now 725 and they all feel very similar. What's really cool about the 725 is that it responds to a quick yaw motion to the outside of the turn before really railing; the feeling is pretty electric. And this is riding the Armstrong 5.11! Can't imagine how good it'll feel on the small board (I'm travelling and brought one board for SUP and wing). One interesting thing is that around the 35-40+km/h mark, the foil or V-tail was absolutely shrieking. Need to figure out which foil is the culprit; front or back. My 925 with V tail does this to a much lesser extent. For now it's just the sound of speeeeeed! Going to be tough to choose between the HA wings. They seem to all work quite well in similar wind strengths but the 725 needs a grunty wing in lighter air.

Windo****hanks for your comments. Now this is making this tough, LOL

you mention position 8 on 5'11" FG, I am riding at position 4.5 on 5'8"/99 FG. My feet are pretty well where foot straps would be. Where do you find your feet land? Foot straps?

My front foot lands right where the aft-most inserts are for the front straps at position 8. Had another session on it today in 35 knots and big wind swell on a smaller Quatro. So damned fast but can cruise comfortably too. Toe side tacks feel like you have a giant berm to bank off and rail as hard as you like. The 925 was already blowing my mind. I have to think of another term for describing the 725...

Got my first session in on the HA725 yesterday. Winds 13-18knots, 4.2 Reedin, chopped Flying V with +1, 69L board (me at 75kg). As I was a little underpowered on the 4.2 it took the upper end of the wind to get me on foil but, once up, it performed really well. I think a bigger hand-wing would have helped. The 725 is more challenging to ride than anything else I've tried, but as I started to get more used to it, the fun was exponential. My max speed was 35km/h, and I have no doubt that is only the beginning. Turning into some chest high open ocean swells that were peaking up on the outer sandbar was SO fun. It was easy to turn into a swell and not worry about foiling out in a steep section. Also, the 725 flies through jibes. I would describe the turning as comparable to the 1050 (albeit a different "feel") but with significantly more glide and speed. One thing that also really stood out was the elevated average speed. It was not difficult to comfortably maintain cruising speeds that would otherwise be peak speeds on another foil.

As an intermediate rider, there is no question that this foil requires me to be much more active and enough wind that you can really build some board speed to get going, but I'm sure those things will get a little easier with time.

I'm very curious how the HA195 tail wing will pair with this. Has anyone tried that combo yet?

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Oahuwaterwalker said..
Got my first session in on the HA725 yesterday. Winds 13-18knots, 4.2 Reedin, chopped Flying V with +1, 69L board (me at 75kg). As I was a little underpowered on the 4.2 it took the upper end of the wind to get me on foil but, once up, it performed really well. I think a bigger hand-wing would have helped. The 725 is more challenging to ride than anything else I've tried, but as I started to get more used to it, the fun was exponential. My max speed was 35km/h, and I have no doubt that is only the beginning. Turning into some chest high open ocean swells that were peaking up on the outer sandbar was SO fun. It was easy to turn into a swell and not worry about foiling out in a steep section. Also, the 725 flies through jibes. I would describe the turning as comparable to the 1050 (albeit a different "feel") but with significantly more glide and speed. One thing that also really stood out was the elevated average speed. It was not difficult to comfortably maintain cruising speeds that would otherwise be peak speeds on another foil.

As an intermediate rider, there is no question that this foil requires me to be much more active and enough wind that you can really build some board speed to get going, but I'm sure those things will get a little easier with time.

I'm very curious how the HA195 tail wing will pair with this. Has anyone tried that combo yet?

Is the HA195 out yet? I think everyone with a HA wing is waiting for them as in theory they should help make the foils more stable, especially at higher speed. Perhaps they'll even allow for more positive tail angle, and thus decrease drag, rather than the negative shimming that a lot of people are doing, from what I hear.

HA195 not out yet. My pre-order is in, so I'll chime in when it comes in. No indication on ETA yet...

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greg87foil said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Got my first session in on the HA725 yesterday. Winds 13-18knots, 4.2 Reedin, chopped Flying V with +1, 69L board (me at 75kg). As I was a little underpowered on the 4.2 it took the upper end of the wind to get me on foil but, once up, it performed really well. I think a bigger hand-wing would have helped. The 725 is more challenging to ride than anything else I've tried, but as I started to get more used to it, the fun was exponential. My max speed was 35km/h, and I have no doubt that is only the beginning. Turning into some chest high open ocean swells that were peaking up on the outer sandbar was SO fun. It was easy to turn into a swell and not worry about foiling out in a steep section. Also, the 725 flies through jibes. I would describe the turning as comparable to the 1050 (albeit a different "feel") but with significantly more glide and speed. One thing that also really stood out was the elevated average speed. It was not difficult to comfortably maintain cruising speeds that would otherwise be peak speeds on another foil.

As an intermediate rider, there is no question that this foil requires me to be much more active and enough wind that you can really build some board speed to get going, but I'm sure those things will get a little easier with time.

I'm very curious how the HA195 tail wing will pair with this. Has anyone tried that combo yet?

Is the HA195 out yet? I think everyone with a HA wing is waiting for them as in theory they should help make the foils more stable, especially at higher speed. Perhaps they'll even allow for more positive tail angle, and thus decrease drag, rather than the negative shimming that a lot of people are doing, from what I hear.

My head spins a little on the shimming thing. Are most people riding the HA wings with no shim on the A+ system?

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

greg87foil said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Got my first session in on the HA725 yesterday. Winds 13-18knots, 4.2 Reedin, chopped Flying V with +1, 69L board (me at 75kg). As I was a little underpowered on the 4.2 it took the upper end of the wind to get me on foil but, once up, it performed really well. I think a bigger hand-wing would have helped. The 725 is more challenging to ride than anything else I've tried, but as I started to get more used to it, the fun was exponential. My max speed was 35km/h, and I have no doubt that is only the beginning. Turning into some chest high open ocean swells that were peaking up on the outer sandbar was SO fun. It was easy to turn into a swell and not worry about foiling out in a steep section. Also, the 725 flies through jibes. I would describe the turning as comparable to the 1050 (albeit a different "feel") but with significantly more glide and speed. One thing that also really stood out was the elevated average speed. It was not difficult to comfortably maintain cruising speeds that would otherwise be peak speeds on another foil.

As an intermediate rider, there is no question that this foil requires me to be much more active and enough wind that you can really build some board speed to get going, but I'm sure those things will get a little easier with time.

I'm very curious how the HA195 tail wing will pair with this. Has anyone tried that combo yet?

Is the HA195 out yet? I think everyone with a HA wing is waiting for them as in theory they should help make the foils more stable, especially at higher speed. Perhaps they'll even allow for more positive tail angle, and thus decrease drag, rather than the negative shimming that a lot of people are doing, from what I hear.

My head spins a little on the shimming thing. Are most people riding the HA wings with no shim on the A+ system?

no shim would be -1 on the A+, which is doable, but have heard others shimming negatively even more. In another topic Kane mentioned he shims to -3.5 or -4.5 for some of the HA wings, on the 85 mast with the 60 fuse.

I just got out of the water with the 925/85m/60f doing a tuning session changing tail settings every 10mins. Did the 232v1, kd 14" tail and fv200, tried each with no shim (-1) and a negative shim (-2 total). I'm nowhere near the speeds Kane is hitting, but it did seem to me that once you start going fast more tail shim makes everything smoother and helps with the nose-down pitch at speeds. But need to test more though for thorough conclusion...

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greg87foil said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..

greg87foil said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Got my first session in on the HA725 yesterday. Winds 13-18knots, 4.2 Reedin, chopped Flying V with +1, 69L board (me at 75kg). As I was a little underpowered on the 4.2 it took the upper end of the wind to get me on foil but, once up, it performed really well. I think a bigger hand-wing would have helped. The 725 is more challenging to ride than anything else I've tried, but as I started to get more used to it, the fun was exponential. My max speed was 35km/h, and I have no doubt that is only the beginning. Turning into some chest high open ocean swells that were peaking up on the outer sandbar was SO fun. It was easy to turn into a swell and not worry about foiling out in a steep section. Also, the 725 flies through jibes. I would describe the turning as comparable to the 1050 (albeit a different "feel") but with significantly more glide and speed. One thing that also really stood out was the elevated average speed. It was not difficult to comfortably maintain cruising speeds that would otherwise be peak speeds on another foil.

As an intermediate rider, there is no question that this foil requires me to be much more active and enough wind that you can really build some board speed to get going, but I'm sure those things will get a little easier with time.

I'm very curious how the HA195 tail wing will pair with this. Has anyone tried that combo yet?

Is the HA195 out yet? I think everyone with a HA wing is waiting for them as in theory they should help make the foils more stable, especially at higher speed. Perhaps they'll even allow for more positive tail angle, and thus decrease drag, rather than the negative shimming that a lot of people are doing, from what I hear.

My head spins a little on the shimming thing. Are most people riding the HA wings with no shim on the A+ system?

no shim would be -1 on the A+, which is doable, but have heard others shimming negatively even more. In another topic Kane mentioned he shims to -3.5 or -4.5 for some of the HA wings, on the 85 mast with the 60 fuse.

I just got out of the water with the 925/85m/60f doing a tuning session changing tail settings every 10mins. Did the 232v1, kd 14" tail and fv200, tried each with no shim (-1) and a negative shim (-2 total). I'm nowhere near the speeds Kane is hitting, but it did seem to me that once you start going fast more tail shim makes everything smoother and helps with the nose-down pitch at speeds. But need to test more though for thorough conclusion...

Be interesting to know where Kane has his mast position when using -3.5/4.5 shim as well.

I use my normal mast tuning method to start. Just roughly balanced under the front wing. I move it backwards or forwards after that depending on my turning height.

2nd session with 725 yesterday in 14-20kts of winds with same set up as listed above. First, I really love this foil, it seems to capable of maintaining a cruising speed that was closer to my peak speed on other foils and I love the rail to rail turning. That said, my biggest challenge is pitch stability at higher speed. From what others have written, I guess I need to take the red shim out and ride at -1 (A+ system with no shim?) or possibly even add more negative shim.

While I'm sure there is definitely some rider talent at play, does the minus shimming really help with pitch stability?

We have a solid 20kts today and I'm buried in appointments all day...

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Oahuwaterwalker said..
2nd session with 725 yesterday in 14-20kts of winds with same set up as listed above. First, I really love this foil, it seems to capable of maintaining a cruising speed that was closer to my peak speed on other foils and I love the rail to rail turning. That said, my biggest challenge is pitch stability at higher speed. From what others have written, I guess I need to take the red shim out and ride at -1 (A+ system with no shim?) or possibly even add more negative shim.

While I'm sure there is definitely some rider talent at play, does the minus shimming really help with pitch stability?

We have a solid 20kts today and I'm buried in appointments all day...

I added a reversed red shim to make it -2. To me it felt very good even with V tail at top speed. Haven't gone further with shimming, but only have two sessions on it. Super comfy at speed; you don't realize your average speed ratchets up so much until you start passing the windsurfers...

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Windoc said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
2nd session with 725 yesterday in 14-20kts of winds with same set up as listed above. First, I really love this foil, it seems to capable of maintaining a cruising speed that was closer to my peak speed on other foils and I love the rail to rail turning. That said, my biggest challenge is pitch stability at higher speed. From what others have written, I guess I need to take the red shim out and ride at -1 (A+ system with no shim?) or possibly even add more negative shim.

While I'm sure there is definitely some rider talent at play, does the minus shimming really help with pitch stability?

We have a solid 20kts today and I'm buried in appointments all day...

I added a reversed red shim to make it -2. To me it felt very good even with V tail at top speed. Haven't gone further with shimming, but only have two sessions on it. Super comfy at speed; you don't realize your average speed ratchets up so much until you start passing the windsurfers...

Yesterday I was catching and passing kiters. If I saw wingers doing that 3 years ago, I would have starting in on this sport earlier, lol.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to remove the red shim for the next session and possibly reverse cut a blue one.

My son was doing some blistering speeds yesterday on the 725 DW king of the cut practise. God knows what he's do on a 525. But this pitch sensitivity has a lot to do the type of tail one uses I think. He was trialing my new locally cut G10 KD maui type tail. Whilst the speed and stability were great the front foot pressure at minus 1, even with the mast moved nearly all the way back on his 4 foot FG board actually had his calf give way. So he had the opposite problem - too much front lift!! Which is weird for armie gear. So I've shimmed it past zero and all the way to positive one for today. So should be less front foot pressure and less drag.

bottom line is it seems the tail choice has quite a bit to do with it.

Another session with 725 this time at -1 with V tail. I also move the mast back 1cm to compensate for the additional lift. What a difference! So much more pitch stable and went faster than previous two sessions.

Also had some head high surf and the turning and glide were outstanding.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..
Another session with 725 this time at -1 with V tail. What a difference! So much more pitch stable and went faster than previous two sessions. Also had some head high surf and the turning and glide was just outstanding.

Sweet. I'd be curious to see what you think of -2 if you get the chance.

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eppo said..
My son was doing some blistering speeds yesterday on the 725 DW king of the cut practise. God knows what he's do on a 525. But this pitch sensitivity has a lot to do the type of tail one uses I think. He was trialing my new locally cut G10 KD maui type tail. Whilst the speed and stability were great the front foot pressure at minus 1, even with the mast moved nearly all the way back on his 4 foot FG board actually had his calf give way. So he had the opposite problem - too much front lift!! Which is weird for armie gear. So I've shimmed it past zero and all the way to positive one for today. So should be less front foot pressure and less drag.

bottom line is it seems the tail choice has quite a bit to do with it.

Interesting observations here.

I seem to remember Kane saying the most influential aspect of one's setup is the tail...he mentioned this on one of the Progression Podcast interviews.

Seems like some solid truth in this!

Can't wait for the HA195 tail...

So he was only able to use the 925 today as the 725 was being used. But anyhow same same, going to a plus one shim (legitimate plus one on old system) he actually had to move the mast forward 2 to 4.5 and it was sweet on that tail. No excruciating front foot pressure. Fast and stable.
Although the idiot like father like son came in at golden bay instead of secret harbour and had a long walk to get picked up lol.

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Windoc said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Another session with 725 this time at -1 with V tail. What a difference! So much more pitch stable and went faster than previous two sessions. Also had some head high surf and the turning and glide was just outstanding.

Sweet. I'd be curious to see what you think of -2 if you get the chance.

I was thinking about clipping a .5 shim to minus. I'll update you after I try that, but felt like everything was pretty dialed in for me with just -1.

The 725 has definitely revealed a whistling problem with the trailing edge of my V tail. Have to get some sandpaper out this week.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

Windoc said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Another session with 725 this time at -1 with V tail. What a difference! So much more pitch stable and went faster than previous two sessions. Also had some head high surf and the turning and glide was just outstanding.

Sweet. I'd be curious to see what you think of -2 if you get the chance.

I was thinking about clipping a .5 shim to minus. I'll update you after I try that, but felt like everything was pretty dialed in for me with just -1.

The 725 has definitely revealed a whistling problem with the trailing edge of my V tail. Have to get some sandpaper out this week.

Interesting about the whistling. My 925 and V tail is dead silent at speed but the 725 screams!

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eppo said..
My son was doing some blistering speeds yesterday on the 725 DW king of the cut practise. God knows what he's do on a 525. But this pitch sensitivity has a lot to do the type of tail one uses I think. He was trialing my new locally cut G10 KD maui type tail. Whilst the speed and stability were great the front foot pressure at minus 1, even with the mast moved nearly all the way back on his 4 foot FG board actually had his calf give way. So he had the opposite problem - too much front lift!! Which is weird for armie gear. So I've shimmed it past zero and all the way to positive one for today. So should be less front foot pressure and less drag.

bottom line is it seems the tail choice has quite a bit to do with it.

Hard to compare tail angles if the camber of the foil section is different. A tail at 0 angle with a profile with 10% camber will give less lift than another tail also at 0 angle, but with a profile that has 20% camber.

So could very well be that that locally cut G10 tail has way more down force than Kane's tails, or the Armstrong ones.

I guess every setup, including tail, needs to be tuned and shimmed for preference, board, conditions and activity (wing/prone/kite).

I had that locally made tail shimmed to zero yesterday with the 925, at 6.5 in The 34L FG prone box for a DW. Easily the best all rounder tail I've tried. Was fast, had zero pitch control - it was like riding with a minus 2 but without the drag. Can't wait to surf it. It's gonna be a pumping beast.

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eppo said..
I had that locally made tail shimmed to zero yesterday with the 925, at 6.5 in The 34L FG prone box for a DW. Easily the best all rounder tail I've tried. Was fast, had zero pitch control - it was like riding with a minus 2 but without the drag. Can't wait to surf it. It's gonna be a pumping beast.

nice! post some pics of that tail!

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Windoc said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Another session with 725 this time at -1 with V tail. What a difference! So much more pitch stable and went faster than previous two sessions. Also had some head high surf and the turning and glide was just outstanding.

Sweet. I'd be curious to see what you think of -2 if you get the chance.

I tried the 725 at -1.5 and found my overall peak speeds dropped about 1-2mph. This was in choppy water and lit on a 4.2 Wing.

I went back to the -1 today and was back up to the previous peak speeds. For me, with the chopped V-tail, -1 seems to be on target.