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kitesupwingfoil said..

mcrt said..

sunsetsailboards said..
Anybody have weights on these boards?

Direct from Appletree:

"The average weight of the V2 83L is 5.9kg +/- 5% This is a measured average, we weigh each board that comes out of the factory and if it;s over 5% off, it is rejected at quality control. "

well, mine was more than 20% off and passed quality control easily. They didn't offer anything when I contacted them.

Not good, which one did you get and what were the expected and real weights?.

I am considering buying one because of the solid construction but they are not the lightest boards, 20% more on an 5.9kg/85l board would turn it into a barge.

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mcrt said..

kitesupwingfoil said..

mcrt said..

sunsetsailboards said..
Anybody have weights on these boards?

Direct from Appletree:

"The average weight of the V2 83L is 5.9kg +/- 5% This is a measured average, we weigh each board that comes out of the factory and if it;s over 5% off, it is rejected at quality control. "

well, mine was more than 20% off and passed quality control easily. They didn't offer anything when I contacted them.

Not good, which one did you get and what were the expected and real weights?.

I am considering buying one because of the solid construction but they are not the lightest boards, 20% more on an 5.9kg/85l board would turn it into a barge.

Pro Foil 38l
2.8 vs. 3.4 Kg

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greg87foil said..

frappes said..
@velocicraptor Please post your review when you get the 4'9" ... I'm looking at that board as well to replace my 90L Quatro and compliment my 38L KT sinker. Having a tough time deciding between the 4'9" 60L or 4'8" 50L. I'm mostly keen to get your take on the low-end capabilities of the board for marginal wind days (less than 15 knots).

Like yourself, I came from the 90L Quattro and have a 35L 4'6" Amundson prone board that I use(d) as a sinker when it's nuking.

I'm 78 kg, and got the 60L 4'9" a few months ago already (I had a pre-production run). Mine is 23" wide but I think the production is even narrower at 22.5".

This is now my all conditions board. It doesn't feel bigger or sluggisher than my 35L sinker, but sooo much nicer than the 90L Quattro that now feels like a monster truck to me.

For me the key specs are:
- Narrow width, as I'm mostly riding waves
- Pointy nose (I think it just looks better, to look like a surfboard for waveriding)
- Flat rocker (only the nose has some rocker for touchdowns)
- Slightly recessed deck (allows for more nose rocker while keeping feet in parallel line with boxes)
- Bombproof construction

I made a review video a while back:

Not affiliated with Appletree at all. I got the chance to meet the owners in Portugal and visit the factory, but paid for the board. Just stoked on a good product.

Beautiful, thanks for the notes. I ordered the 60L, stoked to get it!!

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frappes said..

greg87foil said..

frappes said..
@velocicraptor Please post your review when you get the 4'9" ... I'm looking at that board as well to replace my 90L Quatro and compliment my 38L KT sinker. Having a tough time deciding between the 4'9" 60L or 4'8" 50L. I'm mostly keen to get your take on the low-end capabilities of the board for marginal wind days (less than 15 knots).

Like yourself, I came from the 90L Quattro and have a 35L 4'6" Amundson prone board that I use(d) as a sinker when it's nuking.

I'm 78 kg, and got the 60L 4'9" a few months ago already (I had a pre-production run). Mine is 23" wide but I think the production is even narrower at 22.5".

This is now my all conditions board. It doesn't feel bigger or sluggisher than my 35L sinker, but sooo much nicer than the 90L Quattro that now feels like a monster truck to me.

For me the key specs are:
- Narrow width, as I'm mostly riding waves
- Pointy nose (I think it just looks better, to look like a surfboard for waveriding)
- Flat rocker (only the nose has some rocker for touchdowns)
- Slightly recessed deck (allows for more nose rocker while keeping feet in parallel line with boxes)
- Bombproof construction

I made a review video a while back:

Not affiliated with Appletree at all. I got the chance to meet the owners in Portugal and visit the factory, but paid for the board. Just stoked on a good product.

Beautiful, thanks for the notes. I ordered the 60L, stoked to get it!!

You will love it. I can't get enough of that board. Much more versatile than I was expecting in terms of useable wind range. Not sure about your weight, but Im 80 kg and the 60L feels like a real sweet spot for me on this board.

@kitesupwingfoil

I have a Pro Foil V1 that is slightly larger. 4'8" (39 litres). It's a stock version (no footstrap inserts, no deckpad). Weight: 2,9 kg with a bit of wax on it.

3,4 kg seems a bit to much, unless you have inserts and/or a pad.

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frappes said..

greg87foil said..

frappes said..
@velocicraptor Please post your review when you get the 4'9" ... I'm looking at that board as well to replace my 90L Quatro and compliment my 38L KT sinker. Having a tough time deciding between the 4'9" 60L or 4'8" 50L. I'm mostly keen to get your take on the low-end capabilities of the board for marginal wind days (less than 15 knots).

Like yourself, I came from the 90L Quattro and have a 35L 4'6" Amundson prone board that I use(d) as a sinker when it's nuking.

I'm 78 kg, and got the 60L 4'9" a few months ago already (I had a pre-production run). Mine is 23" wide but I think the production is even narrower at 22.5".

This is now my all conditions board. It doesn't feel bigger or sluggisher than my 35L sinker, but sooo much nicer than the 90L Quattro that now feels like a monster truck to me.

For me the key specs are:
- Narrow width, as I'm mostly riding waves
- Pointy nose (I think it just looks better, to look like a surfboard for waveriding)
- Flat rocker (only the nose has some rocker for touchdowns)
- Slightly recessed deck (allows for more nose rocker while keeping feet in parallel line with boxes)
- Bombproof construction

I made a review video a while back:

Not affiliated with Appletree at all. I got the chance to meet the owners in Portugal and visit the factory, but paid for the board. Just stoked on a good product.

Beautiful, thanks for the notes. I ordered the 60L, stoked to get it!!

Get in line, I ordered last week also a 60l :D

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kitesupwingfoil said..

mcrt said..

sunsetsailboards said..
Anybody have weights on these boards?

Direct from Appletree:

"The average weight of the V2 83L is 5.9kg +/- 5% This is a measured average, we weigh each board that comes out of the factory and if it;s over 5% off, it is rejected at quality control. "

well, mine was more than 20% off and passed quality control easily. They didn't offer anything when I contacted them.

my Jazz 90L was 6,6kg. I gave it back as this is important to me and announced at 6kg...
The guys were very cool and made no problem taking it back.

The break even compared to pvc/carbon boards is obviously around 60L and then you get all the advantages of this construction.

Shapes look amazing though.

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Frankieboy said..

kitesupwingfoil said..

mcrt said..

sunsetsailboards said..
Anybody have weights on these boards?

Direct from Appletree:

"The average weight of the V2 83L is 5.9kg +/- 5% This is a measured average, we weigh each board that comes out of the factory and if it;s over 5% off, it is rejected at quality control. "

well, mine was more than 20% off and passed quality control easily. They didn't offer anything when I contacted them.

my Jazz 90L was 6,6kg. I gave it back as this is important to me and announced at 6kg...
The guys were very cool and made no problem taking it back.

The break even compared to pvc/carbon boards is obviously around 60L and then you get all the advantages of this construction.

Shapes look amazing though.

I'm under the impression that they consistently make boards heavier than advertised.

They can weight them at the factory before shipping.
I am afraid it is the same for every brand, production or custom made.
Turtle boards advertised 90L boards at 4kg on Instagram but when you ask the say like 5kg. I guess you get it at 5,5kg at the end.
F-one said 5,1kg for a board I weighed it at 5,6kg, this is 10%.
It is a shame.

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The break even compared to pvc/carbon boards is obviously around 60L and then you get all the advantages of this construction.

Shapes look amazing though.

What do you mean by this? Pvc/carbon skinned boards are heavier than just carbon under 60l? They use "50k Foam" closed cell foam that they "make". Looking at an xps chart that's something like 2.5lb density foam, pretty beefy. They also claim to have invented vacuum infusion on their website.

"We use a vacuum technique developed in house, where we layer all the carbon fiber, and reinforcements on the board dry. Then we extract all the air from the bag and inject the epoxy resin under pressure."

Having made a partially pvc skinned 1lb eps board myself, I'm impressed that they can make them that light with those materials and have people not break then all the time.
The coolest thing is the honeycomb/carbon box, I'd love to see one apart. I can't imagine how you can epoxy something to honeycomb without using tons of epoxy??

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Frankieboy said..
They can weight them at the factory before shipping.
I am afraid it is the same for every brand, production or custom made.
Turtle boards advertised 90L boards at 4kg on Instagram but when you ask the say like 5kg. I guess you get it at 5,5kg at the end.
F-one said 5,1kg for a board I weighed it at 5,6kg, this is 10%.
It is a shame.

Pretty much what I always see with mountain bike parts...(IF) they give you a weight, you might get a +/- but then users just report in on the + side and often well above the stated range. Don't often hear reports of how much lighter than the claimed weight the gear ends up being...

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Frankieboy said..
They can weight them at the factory before shipping.
I am afraid it is the same for every brand, production or custom made.
Turtle boards advertised 90L boards at 4kg on Instagram but when you ask the say like 5kg. I guess you get it at 5,5kg at the end.
F-one said 5,1kg for a board I weighed it at 5,6kg, this is 10%.
It is a shame.

I'm working with reptile sports from Italy. We've discussed their UFO board line (short freestyle/ freeride board) and now they've send me the 100l 2023 version. The production of this board is in collaboration with a very renowned EU custom windsurf company. The board is made with some exotic materials and came in at 5.77kg. So it is possible to make a solid board that is light. Even my 100l JP freestyle windsurf board is 1kg heavier.

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JohnnyTsunami said..

The break even compared to pvc/carbon boards is obviously around 60L and then you get all the advantages of this construction.

Shapes look amazing though.

What do you mean by this? Pvc/carbon skinned boards are heavier than just carbon under 60l? They use "50k Foam" closed cell foam that they "make". Looking at an xps chart that's something like 2.5lb density foam, pretty beefy. They also claim to have invented vacuum infusion on their website.

"We use a vacuum technique developed in house, where we layer all the carbon fiber, and reinforcements on the board dry. Then we extract all the air from the bag and inject the epoxy resin under pressure."

Having made a partially pvc skinned 1lb eps board myself, I'm impressed that they can make them that light with those materials and have people not break then all the time.
The coolest thing is the honeycomb/carbon box, I'd love to see one apart. I can't imagine how you can epoxy something to honeycomb without using tons of epoxy??

Select to expand quote

JohnnyTsunami said..

The break even compared to pvc/carbon boards is obviously around 60L and then you get all the advantages of this construction.

Shapes look amazing though.

What do you mean by this? Pvc/carbon skinned boards are heavier than just carbon under 60l? They use "50k Foam" closed cell foam that they "make". Looking at an xps chart that's something like 2.5lb density foam, pretty beefy. They also claim to have invented vacuum infusion on their website.

"We use a vacuum technique developed in house, where we layer all the carbon fiber, and reinforcements on the board dry. Then we extract all the air from the bag and inject the epoxy resin under pressure."

Having made a partially pvc skinned 1lb eps board myself, I'm impressed that they can make them that light with those materials and have people not break then all the time.
The coolest thing is the honeycomb/carbon box, I'd love to see one apart. I can't imagine how you can epoxy something to honeycomb without using tons of epoxy??

They don't use XPS, that's for sure. I think they use PU cores. There's other materials that kinda match their description but they are all so expensive that I don't think it's one of them.
vaccuum infusion is an existing technique for composite building. Nothing new but they are the first ones I know that use it for boards. It is a good method to get a better fibre to resin ratio and to get and to get a more consistent weight with every board you build as you can really closely monitor epoxy usage. Check it out on youtube, cool stuff.
vaccuuming makes sure the honeycomb doesn't get filled up with epoxy. The resin will float to the surface. Honeycomb is an interesting material but it is aramid (kevlar). Even if the fibres start to brake, they don't brake completely (unlike carbon), but it is very fragile when it comes to UV light and direct contact with water.

all in all they have a cool building technique!

I have Mojo Custom 5'4 at 98 liters. It weighs 5.7 kg.
They sit in Hungary/EU and have a windsurfing backround, so build their boards in windsurf carbon sandwich technology using CAD/CAM shaping / machines.
Foil boxes are 30 cm custom all carbon and they use metric strapscrew inserts.

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AlexF said..
I have Mojo Custom 5'4 at 98 liters. It weighs 5.7 kg.
They sit in Hungary/EU and have a windsurfing backround, so build their boards in windsurf carbon sandwich technology using CAD/CAM shaping / machines.
Foil boxes are 30 cm custom all carbon and they use metric strapscrew inserts.

I checked this guys, they advertise the 5.4 at 6.5kg in the top construction.
So yours is 800g below advertised, pretty good!.

Boardbuilding is always a trade off. Weight, stiffness, durability, maintenance/repair, consistency in production, price. And varying with size and shape.

looking at a sturdy 50k foam (heavier then regular pu) then if you use more foam (more volume), in comparison the board will become less interesting due to the weight.
users tend do differ in their wants and needs. I prefer 0,2 kg more weight plus extra stiffness and durability, then 0,2 kg less and have a board that will not last a season. Or only with a bunch of repairs (adding weight).

About this 60L breakeven, I got the info first hand from the owner.
And it makes sense as told before their foam is heavier so the more volume the more weight compared to 15kg EPS with 3mm of 75kg/m3 pvc in carbon sandwich.

I have a Newind custom 105L @ 5,5kg
Also had an Ordgy custom 108L @ 5,8kg
Now ride a Flycat custom 85/90L @ 5,2kg
All three boards are sandwich carbon, very stiff and hold great even with big wings and my heavy weight (110kg). I don't jump.
These weights are OK for those volumes.

But a 90L board @ 6,6kg is just not possible. Maybe it is because it is supposed to be a freestyle board made for jumping (Jazz)...

Sorry that it's getting of topic, but I want make something clear when it comes to the stiffness of a board.
stiffness comes mainly from laminate thickness and subsequently the fibre (glass vs carbon). The thicker the sandwich, the stiffer the board. The rule of thumb goes like this: a 1mm sandwich is 1x stiffer (1x1x1), 3mm is 27x stiffer (3x3x3) and so on. Board thickness and the used foam (both core and sandwich) makes a difference, but less than laminate thickness. Their 50k foam will be stiffer than eps, but a good eps pvc sandwich board will be better.
think of it like this: if you have a relatively thin metal sheet you can probably bend it with your hands, but if you have a "H beam" (where a single metal sheer separates 2 sheets of metal with a 90 degree angle) there's no chance you can bend it.

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mcrt said..

AlexF said..
I have Mojo Custom 5'4 at 98 liters. It weighs 5.7 kg.
They sit in Hungary/EU and have a windsurfing backround, so build their boards in windsurf carbon sandwich technology using CAD/CAM shaping / machines.
Foil boxes are 30 cm custom all carbon and they use metric strapscrew inserts.

I checked this guys, they advertise the 5.4 at 6.5kg in the top construction.
So yours is 800g below advertised, pretty good!.

Yeah, the guys are a little conservative with their weights. Not to promise something they can't keep.
But a 95 liter board under 6 kg shouldn't be a problem for them.

A little update on the Appleslice V2 (and bring this one back to the topic).

Had a couple of sessions on the 5'0" (83 liters). Finally one in the waves and 1 in very marginal, lightwind conditions. The wave session I was underpowered with a 4m wing, but able to slog out through the breaking zone (our waves are not that strong and that day only 1 metre). Coming in I could use the chop/windswell to get up to speed and on the foil. Direct response and feel of the foil / wave. Touchdowns with rail and/or bottom are more of a bounce back (most of the time) than a touchdown/landing.
In the marginal condition I was on a 6m and giant front wing. On a nearby, larger lake wind was varying between 6 and 10 knots with gusts upto 12. Without any wind I was sinking down to my upper calf/knee. Sometimes managing that, sometimes resulting in the board shooting up nosefirst. A little gust had me going and get onto foiling speeds. I was amazed how easily and fast I could get from slogging to flying speed. The board and foil felt balanced and silky smooth.

A picture after the session showing the board and "strong" gust on the lake.

Last month my 60l Appleslice V2 arrived. I,m 94kg right now, (I was 102kg when ordering in may) and its my first true sinkerboard.Construction and finish is top notch. Its hard to catch in a picture how well its made and the way the epoxi swirl colours are IRL
4.9x22.5x60l
weight: 4.9kg My other board is an AK5.8x90l1st "session" I went out in a waisthigh chop and gusty wind...and couldnt even get on my knees on the board It flipped under me away in every possible direction2th sess I went to a lake on a windy day. grabbed my 5 where I would ussually go for a 4m and after a bit struggling to find the balancepoint I was flying.One in the air it was easy and except slightly lighter and more reactive it felt quite normal. Played a lot that day and did dozens of re starts to get that in my system. 3th +4th sess: plenty of wind at sea and in the waves. again, rigging a 5 where I would normally grab a 4 but with that in mind I,m getting into it. pumping is easier, surfs nice and turns tighter as the "big" 5.8 AK. Feeling in control and quite comfortable re-starting....till 2 weeks ago: While entering the water a wave caught me and slid the foil tip through my 5m.It was plenty of windy and I was already in doubt between 4 and 5 so grabbed my 4 and had heaps of fun for 45min...then the wind dropped like 3-5knots and no matter what I couldn't get from my knees to standing up without the extra grunt. After a lot of swearing and numerous attempts, i swam/dragged back for 1.5km to the beach.
Swapped to my big board and had a lovely session.

So when its really windy its good fun, when not, its at least for now really really difficult, but i guess that is part of the learning process instead of something to blame the board for.

ooh box position is quite a topic:

I use an Cedrus mast and with my Kujira 1210 the foil is pretty far to the back.With my Cabrinha H1200 and H1000 its a couple of CM of the front, but with enough space to play with.

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Jeroensurf said..
Last month my 60l Appleslice V2 arrived. I,m 94kg right now, (I was 102kg when ordering in may) and its my first true sinkerboard.Construction and finish is top notch. Its hard to catch in a picture how well its made and the way the epoxi swirl colours are IRL
4.9x22.5x60l
weight: 4.9kg My other board is an AK5.8x90l1st "session" I went out in a waisthigh chop and gusty wind...and couldnt even get on my knees on the board It flipped under me away in every possible direction2th sess I went to a lake on a windy day. grabbed my 5 where I would ussually go for a 4m and after a bit struggling to find the balancepoint I was flying.One in the air it was easy and except slightly lighter and more reactive it felt quite normal. Played a lot that day and did dozens of re starts to get that in my system. 3th +4th sess: plenty of wind at sea and in the waves. again, rigging a 5 where I would normally grab a 4 but with that in mind I,m getting into it. pumping is easier, surfs nice and turns tighter as the "big" 5.8 AK. Feeling in control and quite comfortable re-starting....till 2 weeks ago: While entering the water a wave caught me and slid the foil tip through my 5m.It was plenty of windy and I was already in doubt between 4 and 5 so grabbed my 4 and had heaps of fun for 45min...then the wind dropped like 3-5knots and no matter what I couldn't get from my knees to standing up without the extra grunt. After a lot of swearing and numerous attempts, i swam/dragged back for 1.5km to the beach.
Swapped to my big board and had a lovely session.

So when its really windy its good fun, when not, its at least for now really really difficult, but i guess that is part of the learning process instead of something to blame the board for.

ooh box position is quite a topic:

I use an Cedrus mast and with my Kujira 1210 the foil is pretty far to the back.With my Cabrinha H1200 and H1000 its a couple of CM of the front, but with enough space to play with.

Interesting re placement. I'm probably 75% towards the front on this board with Cedrus + Takuma. H800 is almost slammed to the front now.

I've got a V1 70L that I absolutely love!

It's white with carbon showing through here and there like most... I still don't leave it in the sun for long.

I'd imagine their construction process and special foam helps keep a black board from exploding after five minutes on the beach?
Bet you could use one to grill a T-bone on any of our beaches in summer

Nice! Commenting to follow... I just ran into one of @foilthegreats videos on YT last night. Curiously enough, today I'm looking for a prone foilboard and ran into Appletree. Considering a 4'8" V2 at 37.50L with inserts. That more or less matches the volume of my standard grovelers. I want it for prone, but if it's super windy, I'll consider winging it.

Resurrecting an old thread because I finally got around to weighing some Appletree boards.

I have both a 60L Appleslice v2 and a 5'7" AppleSkipper DW and both of the boards were 4.1 kg (probably 50g margin of error). Somewhat surprising since the Appleslice has had several repairs and is still below the advertised weight.

That is really competitive with EPS cored boards. I heard they've started using a lower density foam core. My 70L V1 is 5.45Kg but it has no dings or dents after 1.5 years.

I bought an Appletreee appleslice v2 and i would not recommend buying from Appletree. The finish is sub par (full of pinholes), the board is heavy and the board is very, very, easy to dent. It's brittle is how I would describe it.

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nordsjoen said..
I bought an Appletreee appleslice v2 and i would not recommend buying from Appletree. The finish is sub par (full of pinholes), the board is heavy and the board is very, very, easy to dent. It's brittle is how I would describe it.

I'm on my third Appletree board and have had nothing but good experiences - aside from production delays, which seem to be the norm.

I don't feel like the boards are as "indestructible" as some people make them out to be, but they hold up very well and are relatively easy to repair. The fact that they don't take on water is also very beneficial and makes repairs simpler. I definitely wouldn't call them brittle, and I haven't had any pinholes on the three boards I have.

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Velocicraptor said..
Resurrecting an old thread because I finally got around to weighing some Appletree boards.

I have both a 60L Appleslice v2 and a 5'7" AppleSkipper DW and both of the boards were 4.1 kg (probably 50g margin of error). Somewhat surprising since the Appleslice has had several repairs and is still below the advertised weight.

Hey, please share your thoughts on the AppleSkipper, please? Does it get on foil much earlier compared to Appleslice and how do you find the pumping etc.? Oh, and what's your weight?

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nordsjoen said..
I bought an Appletreee appleslice v2 and i would not recommend buying from Appletree. The finish is sub par (full of pinholes), the board is heavy and the board is very, very, easy to dent. It's brittle is how I would describe it.

I have an Appletree. The hardest board to dent / crack I have. Had it thrown onto a rocky beach, had it flown to Spain and Italy a total of 12 times now. Not a single dent yet. Cracking board! :-)