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ArthurAlston said..
The most exciting thing at AWSI wasn't released at AWSI - the Parawing.

100%

I was intrigued by the Blue Planet Surf Wing racer board. Looks like it would be good for a bigger, heftier man who wants a mid-length. Anyone ever try one?

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CoreAS said..

boardsurfr said..

CoreAS said..
If the engineering design came from other brands that people use they would be excited as well

Sure - if the brand I'm using would suddenly change the fuse to a new incompatible version, I'd get quite excited - but since the connections on my brand work very well, and don't need any improvement, that would be rather negative excitement. Frankly, I'd be p*ssed if I'd have to buy a new fuse to get the newest front wing, or if I would not be able to get compatible replacements when something breaks. It hurts if you have a foil setup you like, but can't use it anymore when a $100 part fails and the design changes require that you need to buy almost everything new. That's a great time to see if there are other brands there that get it right the first time, keep things compatible, keep their users happy, and innovate where it matters. I can think of more than one brand where that's the case, and none of them starts with an S.

You want a foil system WITH bolts folk can buy the slingshot phantasm it's an excellent foil, used it for nearly 5 years without an issue and I have invested in a quiver of wings into it. I will still use it for a bunch of other foil sports like prone, FD, teaching friends etc.

Or you can purchase a one lock foil that suits the area you ride, with no tools needed, no maintenance needed with hassle free and quick foil pit stops then you have an option of the one lock system and will allow much bigger foil wings.

Some brands have a dozen plus choices of fuses to select from and you're upset about a simple one lock solution that has the same connection for ALL front wing's sizes and no bolts.? Think most of your comparisons are coming from whatever foil you have now versus a slingshot foil system that was released in 2018 (seven seasons ago)

Generally speaking once a new connection system is introduced the old version is discontinued. That's quite a shame as it would force the user to buy into a completely new foil ecosystem once new front wings and stabs are released instead of adding them to your existing quiver.

I don't think anyone is upset about the onelock system in particular or looking to bash it, but rather annoyed with your perseverance in coming up with nonsense arguments about why this system is far superior to systems that use bolts.

Whilst I do admire the outside the box thinking they did I do see some downsides to it. A big one right now is personalisation of the foil system in the sense of not being able to change the fuse length or the stab angle. This will pose quite a bit issue for riders that really want to tune the foil to their liking. The only way I see how they would solve it is to step away from a monobloc tail and making the stab and rear fuse separate parts(and probably reintroducing bolts to their system again...).
Secondly I'm curious to see how prone the system will be to getting stuck like most of us know from windsurfing masts. They show wiggling the stab in the roll axis will free up the system, but will this introduce issues further down the line where the stab might start experiencing excessive play?

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tvesurf said..

CoreAS said..

boardsurfr said..

CoreAS said..
If the engineering design came from other brands that people use they would be excited as well

Sure - if the brand I'm using would suddenly change the fuse to a new incompatible version, I'd get quite excited - but since the connections on my brand work very well, and don't need any improvement, that would be rather negative excitement. Frankly, I'd be p*ssed if I'd have to buy a new fuse to get the newest front wing, or if I would not be able to get compatible replacements when something breaks. It hurts if you have a foil setup you like, but can't use it anymore when a $100 part fails and the design changes require that you need to buy almost everything new. That's a great time to see if there are other brands there that get it right the first time, keep things compatible, keep their users happy, and innovate where it matters. I can think of more than one brand where that's the case, and none of them starts with an S.

You want a foil system WITH bolts folk can buy the slingshot phantasm it's an excellent foil, used it for nearly 5 years without an issue and I have invested in a quiver of wings into it. I will still use it for a bunch of other foil sports like prone, FD, teaching friends etc.

Or you can purchase a one lock foil that suits the area you ride, with no tools needed, no maintenance needed with hassle free and quick foil pit stops then you have an option of the one lock system and will allow much bigger foil wings.

Some brands have a dozen plus choices of fuses to select from and you're upset about a simple one lock solution that has the same connection for ALL front wing's sizes and no bolts.? Think most of your comparisons are coming from whatever foil you have now versus a slingshot foil system that was released in 2018 (seven seasons ago)

Generally speaking once a new connection system is introduced the old version is discontinued. That's quite a shame as it would force the user to buy into a completely new foil ecosystem once new front wings and stabs are released instead of adding them to your existing quiver.

I don't think anyone is upset about the onelock system in particular or looking to bash it, but rather annoyed with your perseverance in coming up with nonsense arguments about why this system is far superior to systems that use bolts.

Whilst I do admire the outside the box thinking they did I do see some downsides to it. A big one right now is personalisation of the foil system in the sense of not being able to change the fuse length or the stab angle. This will pose quite a bit issue for riders that really want to tune the foil to their liking. The only way I see how they would solve it is to step away from a monobloc tail and making the stab and rear fuse separate parts(and probably reintroducing bolts to their system again...).
Secondly I'm curious to see how prone the system will be to getting stuck like most of us know from windsurfing masts. They show wiggling the stab in the roll axis will free up the system, but will this introduce issues further down the line where the stab might start experiencing excessive play?

Slingshot launched the one lock, as no bolts, no tools system (plus many other positives) regardless of what I say and if you can't handle that, it's on you. Phantasm has been around for 5 years, it's not like it's been chop and changed every year like other brands I see.
For some riders the new platform will make things easier, if not then stick with the bolts it's as simple as that.

There are plenty of videos already posted in 2 threads that gives you all the answers you need.

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tvesurf said..

CoreAS said..

boardsurfr said..

CoreAS said..
If the engineering design came from other brands that people use they would be excited as well

Sure - if the brand I'm using would suddenly change the fuse to a new incompatible version, I'd get quite excited - but since the connections on my brand work very well, and don't need any improvement, that would be rather negative excitement. Frankly, I'd be p*ssed if I'd have to buy a new fuse to get the newest front wing, or if I would not be able to get compatible replacements when something breaks. It hurts if you have a foil setup you like, but can't use it anymore when a $100 part fails and the design changes require that you need to buy almost everything new. That's a great time to see if there are other brands there that get it right the first time, keep things compatible, keep their users happy, and innovate where it matters. I can think of more than one brand where that's the case, and none of them starts with an S.

You want a foil system WITH bolts folk can buy the slingshot phantasm it's an excellent foil, used it for nearly 5 years without an issue and I have invested in a quiver of wings into it. I will still use it for a bunch of other foil sports like prone, FD, teaching friends etc.

Or you can purchase a one lock foil that suits the area you ride, with no tools needed, no maintenance needed with hassle free and quick foil pit stops then you have an option of the one lock system and will allow much bigger foil wings.

Some brands have a dozen plus choices of fuses to select from and you're upset about a simple one lock solution that has the same connection for ALL front wing's sizes and no bolts.? Think most of your comparisons are coming from whatever foil you have now versus a slingshot foil system that was released in 2018 (seven seasons ago)

Generally speaking once a new connection system is introduced the old version is discontinued. That's quite a shame as it would force the user to buy into a completely new foil ecosystem once new front wings and stabs are released instead of adding them to your existing quiver.

I don't think anyone is upset about the onelock system in particular or looking to bash it, but rather annoyed with your perseverance in coming up with nonsense arguments about why this system is far superior to systems that use bolts.

Whilst I do admire the outside the box thinking they did I do see some downsides to it. A big one right now is personalisation of the foil system in the sense of not being able to change the fuse length or the stab angle. This will pose quite a bit issue for riders that really want to tune the foil to their liking. The only way I see how they would solve it is to step away from a monobloc tail and making the stab and rear fuse separate parts(and probably reintroducing bolts to their system again...).
Secondly I'm curious to see how prone the system will be to getting stuck like most of us know from windsurfing masts. They show wiggling the stab in the roll axis will free up the system, but will this introduce issues further down the line where the stab might start experiencing excessive play?

The Armstrong system is similar in that it is pieces slotted together ( held by screws), forums had the occasional foil or fuse stuck. They also had a few complaints of slack fitting from wear which may have come from not giving a good thump into place for a tight fit. As for sand wearing it like windsurfing masts I suspect the inability to rotate will limit this, and videos claim wear is self-eliminated by tightening the cam. I also don't like the inability to shim, others systems not allowed that.

The Armstrong system is by far the WORST design system out of everything in foiling. You have a compression style fitting but you can't compress it because then the fasteners don't line up! You could whack it with a mallet all day but then none of the hardware lines up! I know just add some extra hardware! A+ idea! And you don't just have one of these garbage connections between the mast and front wing you have 2! What a joke!

Select to expand quote

patronus said..

tvesurf said..

CoreAS said..

boardsurfr said..

CoreAS said..
If the engineering design came from other brands that people use they would be excited as well

Sure - if the brand I'm using would suddenly change the fuse to a new incompatible version, I'd get quite excited - but since the connections on my brand work very well, and don't need any improvement, that would be rather negative excitement. Frankly, I'd be p*ssed if I'd have to buy a new fuse to get the newest front wing, or if I would not be able to get compatible replacements when something breaks. It hurts if you have a foil setup you like, but can't use it anymore when a $100 part fails and the design changes require that you need to buy almost everything new. That's a great time to see if there are other brands there that get it right the first time, keep things compatible, keep their users happy, and innovate where it matters. I can think of more than one brand where that's the case, and none of them starts with an S.

You want a foil system WITH bolts folk can buy the slingshot phantasm it's an excellent foil, used it for nearly 5 years without an issue and I have invested in a quiver of wings into it. I will still use it for a bunch of other foil sports like prone, FD, teaching friends etc.

Or you can purchase a one lock foil that suits the area you ride, with no tools needed, no maintenance needed with hassle free and quick foil pit stops then you have an option of the one lock system and will allow much bigger foil wings.

Some brands have a dozen plus choices of fuses to select from and you're upset about a simple one lock solution that has the same connection for ALL front wing's sizes and no bolts.? Think most of your comparisons are coming from whatever foil you have now versus a slingshot foil system that was released in 2018 (seven seasons ago)

Generally speaking once a new connection system is introduced the old version is discontinued. That's quite a shame as it would force the user to buy into a completely new foil ecosystem once new front wings and stabs are released instead of adding them to your existing quiver.

I don't think anyone is upset about the onelock system in particular or looking to bash it, but rather annoyed with your perseverance in coming up with nonsense arguments about why this system is far superior to systems that use bolts.

Whilst I do admire the outside the box thinking they did I do see some downsides to it. A big one right now is personalisation of the foil system in the sense of not being able to change the fuse length or the stab angle. This will pose quite a bit issue for riders that really want to tune the foil to their liking. The only way I see how they would solve it is to step away from a monobloc tail and making the stab and rear fuse separate parts(and probably reintroducing bolts to their system again...).
Secondly I'm curious to see how prone the system will be to getting stuck like most of us know from windsurfing masts. They show wiggling the stab in the roll axis will free up the system, but will this introduce issues further down the line where the stab might start experiencing excessive play?

The Armstrong system is similar in that it is pieces slotted together ( held by screws), forums had the occasional foil or fuse stuck. They also had a few complaints of slack fitting from wear which may have come from not giving a good thump into place for a tight fit. As for sand wearing it like windsurfing masts I suspect the inability to rotate will limit this, and videos claim wear is self-eliminated by tightening the cam. I also don't like the inability to shim, others systems not allowed that.

Select to expand quote

TooMuchEpoxy said..
The Armstrong system is by far the WORST design system out of everything in foiling. You have a compression style fitting but you can't compress it because then the fasteners don't line up! You could whack it with a mallet all day but then none of the hardware lines up! I know just add some extra hardware! A+ idea! And you don't just have one of these garbage connections between the mast and front wing you have 2! What a joke!

patronus said..

tvesurf said..

CoreAS said..

boardsurfr said..

CoreAS said..
If the engineering design came from other brands that people use they would be excited as well

Sure - if the brand I'm using would suddenly change the fuse to a new incompatible version, I'd get quite excited - but since the connections on my brand work very well, and don't need any improvement, that would be rather negative excitement. Frankly, I'd be p*ssed if I'd have to buy a new fuse to get the newest front wing, or if I would not be able to get compatible replacements when something breaks. It hurts if you have a foil setup you like, but can't use it anymore when a $100 part fails and the design changes require that you need to buy almost everything new. That's a great time to see if there are other brands there that get it right the first time, keep things compatible, keep their users happy, and innovate where it matters. I can think of more than one brand where that's the case, and none of them starts with an S.

You want a foil system WITH bolts folk can buy the slingshot phantasm it's an excellent foil, used it for nearly 5 years without an issue and I have invested in a quiver of wings into it. I will still use it for a bunch of other foil sports like prone, FD, teaching friends etc.

Or you can purchase a one lock foil that suits the area you ride, with no tools needed, no maintenance needed with hassle free and quick foil pit stops then you have an option of the one lock system and will allow much bigger foil wings.

Some brands have a dozen plus choices of fuses to select from and you're upset about a simple one lock solution that has the same connection for ALL front wing's sizes and no bolts.? Think most of your comparisons are coming from whatever foil you have now versus a slingshot foil system that was released in 2018 (seven seasons ago)

Generally speaking once a new connection system is introduced the old version is discontinued. That's quite a shame as it would force the user to buy into a completely new foil ecosystem once new front wings and stabs are released instead of adding them to your existing quiver.

I don't think anyone is upset about the onelock system in particular or looking to bash it, but rather annoyed with your perseverance in coming up with nonsense arguments about why this system is far superior to systems that use bolts.

Whilst I do admire the outside the box thinking they did I do see some downsides to it. A big one right now is personalisation of the foil system in the sense of not being able to change the fuse length or the stab angle. This will pose quite a bit issue for riders that really want to tune the foil to their liking. The only way I see how they would solve it is to step away from a monobloc tail and making the stab and rear fuse separate parts(and probably reintroducing bolts to their system again...).
Secondly I'm curious to see how prone the system will be to getting stuck like most of us know from windsurfing masts. They show wiggling the stab in the roll axis will free up the system, but will this introduce issues further down the line where the stab might start experiencing excessive play?

The Armstrong system is similar in that it is pieces slotted together ( held by screws), forums had the occasional foil or fuse stuck. They also had a few complaints of slack fitting from wear which may have come from not giving a good thump into place for a tight fit. As for sand wearing it like windsurfing masts I suspect the inability to rotate will limit this, and videos claim wear is self-eliminated by tightening the cam. I also don't like the inability to shim, others systems not allowed that.

I am not an engineer, but my experience contradicts your statement. I am 89 kg, foil pretty much every time there is wind for the last 5 years. Like to jump high and ride waves. I still own and use the first Armstrong kit I ever bought.
72 mast, then 85 and now P935. Y sup foil in the surf the 72 mast with my old 1250, 1550, 1850 and new HA 780. My son learned with these foils, now he uses my old 85 mast, old 1050 and 1250. I use 935 mast and new ha 580 and 780.all backwards compatible, in perfect working order and in use. Don't think many brands and claim the same.

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bolocom said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
The Armstrong system is by far the WORST design system out of everything in foiling. You have a compression style fitting but you can't compress it because then the fasteners don't line up! You could whack it with a mallet all day but then none of the hardware lines up! I know just add some extra hardware! A+ idea! And you don't just have one of these garbage connections between the mast and front wing you have 2! What a joke!

patronus said..

tvesurf said..

CoreAS said..

boardsurfr said..

CoreAS said..
If the engineering design came from other brands that people use they would be excited as well

Sure - if the brand I'm using would suddenly change the fuse to a new incompatible version, I'd get quite excited - but since the connections on my brand work very well, and don't need any improvement, that would be rather negative excitement. Frankly, I'd be p*ssed if I'd have to buy a new fuse to get the newest front wing, or if I would not be able to get compatible replacements when something breaks. It hurts if you have a foil setup you like, but can't use it anymore when a $100 part fails and the design changes require that you need to buy almost everything new. That's a great time to see if there are other brands there that get it right the first time, keep things compatible, keep their users happy, and innovate where it matters. I can think of more than one brand where that's the case, and none of them starts with an S.

You want a foil system WITH bolts folk can buy the slingshot phantasm it's an excellent foil, used it for nearly 5 years without an issue and I have invested in a quiver of wings into it. I will still use it for a bunch of other foil sports like prone, FD, teaching friends etc.

Or you can purchase a one lock foil that suits the area you ride, with no tools needed, no maintenance needed with hassle free and quick foil pit stops then you have an option of the one lock system and will allow much bigger foil wings.

Some brands have a dozen plus choices of fuses to select from and you're upset about a simple one lock solution that has the same connection for ALL front wing's sizes and no bolts.? Think most of your comparisons are coming from whatever foil you have now versus a slingshot foil system that was released in 2018 (seven seasons ago)

Generally speaking once a new connection system is introduced the old version is discontinued. That's quite a shame as it would force the user to buy into a completely new foil ecosystem once new front wings and stabs are released instead of adding them to your existing quiver.

I don't think anyone is upset about the onelock system in particular or looking to bash it, but rather annoyed with your perseverance in coming up with nonsense arguments about why this system is far superior to systems that use bolts.

Whilst I do admire the outside the box thinking they did I do see some downsides to it. A big one right now is personalisation of the foil system in the sense of not being able to change the fuse length or the stab angle. This will pose quite a bit issue for riders that really want to tune the foil to their liking. The only way I see how they would solve it is to step away from a monobloc tail and making the stab and rear fuse separate parts(and probably reintroducing bolts to their system again...).
Secondly I'm curious to see how prone the system will be to getting stuck like most of us know from windsurfing masts. They show wiggling the stab in the roll axis will free up the system, but will this introduce issues further down the line where the stab might start experiencing excessive play?

The Armstrong system is similar in that it is pieces slotted together ( held by screws), forums had the occasional foil or fuse stuck. They also had a few complaints of slack fitting from wear which may have come from not giving a good thump into place for a tight fit. As for sand wearing it like windsurfing masts I suspect the inability to rotate will limit this, and videos claim wear is self-eliminated by tightening the cam. I also don't like the inability to shim, others systems not allowed that.

I am not an engineer, but my experience contradicts your statement. I am 89 kg, foil pretty much every time there is wind for the last 5 years. Like to jump high and ride waves. I still own and use the first Armstrong kit I ever bought.
72 mast, then 85 and now P935. Y sup foil in the surf the 72 mast with my old 1250, 1550, 1850 and new HA 780. My son learned with these foils, now he uses my old 85 mast, old 1050 and 1250. I use 935 mast and new ha 580 and 780.all backwards compatible, in perfect working order and in use. Don't think many brands and claim the same.

I'm not saying they're not built to last. I'm saying the connections don't have acceptable stiffness.. I've put my hands on a lot of Armstrong setups over the years and not one of them had what I would consider acceptable stiffness.

Personally, I couldn't be less excited about parawing. It solves a problem that doesn't exist, either use a wing, a paddle or a kite.

I want updates on all material improvements in boards, foils, and wings, that's all.

Personally, I couldn't be less excited about parawing. It solves a problem that doesn't exist, either use a wing, a paddle or a kite.

I want updates on all material improvements in boards, foils, and wings, that's all.

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Mikedubs said..
Personally, I couldn't be less excited about parawing. It solves a problem that doesn't exist, either use a wing, a paddle or a kite.

I want updates on all material improvements in boards, foils, and wings, that's all.

Wrong - the problem the parawing solves is how do you do repeated downwind runs without having a paddle or a wing in your hand. You can get up, pack it away, do your downwind run. Then unpack and go back upwind and repeat.

None of the other solutions available allow for this, with a paddle you go downwind and then walk or drive back.

With a wing you have to drag the whole thing with you flagged out or go upwind, pack it down, go downwind, reinflate somehow to go back upwind.

Foil drive also offers a similar experience as you can motor back upwind - but you are limited by battery duration and are running a heavier overall system with the motor and batteries.

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Goofcat said..
I was intrigued by the Blue Planet Surf Wing racer board. Looks like it would be good for a bigger, heftier man who wants a mid-length. Anyone ever try one?

It's interesting for sure, but every blue planet wing foil board I've picked up feels VERY heavy - it would be a non-starter for me. :/

Its lovely to see that the forum is buzzing with activity, I do hope that none of us has missed the opportunity to watch this incredible footage from 'Blue Planet', prior to AWSI, where we can see how the science and engineering becomes sport and a ton of fun on the water

?feature=shared

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wingding said..

Goofcat said..
I was intrigued by the Blue Planet Surf Wing racer board. Looks like it would be good for a bigger, heftier man who wants a mid-length. Anyone ever try one?

It's interesting for sure, but every blue planet wing foil board I've picked up feels VERY heavy - it would be a non-starter for me. :/

Hi Wingding, I've had a Blue Planet Wing racer for 1 year and have found that it was far lighter than my previous Axis Froth and also built extremely well to the point the board still looks new. Overall couldn't be happier with overall performance / weight / construction etc of the board.