I might apply for a job as a DOT windsurfer inspector! Sounds like it would be a good lifestyle!

I think if you put yourself in the position where you need rescuing by the authorities then you could be vulnerable to a fine. You have then proved that you can't manage risks and that you haven't been able to self rescue. Otherwise, leave windsurfers alone.

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Mark _australia said..
^^ I mean wavesailing comps Elmo. Switch on

you'll look Very stylish in yellow floaties

But outside of comps (3 per year) why would you bother

So can anyone tell me what happens when a surfer or SUPaddler decides to venture more than 400m offshore? Are there any regulations that state that they need safety equipment too?

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GazMan said..
So can anyone tell me what happens when a surfer or SUPaddler decides to venture more than 400m offshore? Are there any regulations that state that they need safety equipment too?

Will partly answer my own question! Couldn't find much re WA regulations but these are the requirements in Victoria:

What do I have to wear or carry when I am SUP’ing?
The regulations require the following:
- if you are SUP’ing within 400 metres of shore on coastal, enclosed or inland waters and you are 10 years of age or older, you are not legally required to carry any specific safety equipment.
- however, children less than 10 years old must wear a PFD type 1, PFD type 2 or PFD type 3 at all times.
- you must wear a PFD type 1, a PFD type 2 or a PFD type 3 if at any time you are more than 400 metres from shore. This requirement applies whether you are paddling on coastal, enclosed or inland waters.
- if you are in coastal waters and are more than 2 nautical miles from the coast, in addition to the wearing of a PFD you must carry: (i) a compass, ?(ii) 2 hand-held orange smoke signals, ?(iii) 2 hand-held red distress flares, ?(iv) a buoyant waterproof torch, and ?(v) an EPIRB that complies with AS/NZ 4280.1:2003, is registered with the Australian Maritime Safety Authority and has an up-to-date registration sticker.

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GazMan said..
So can anyone tell me what happens when a surfer or SUPaddler decides to venture more than 400m offshore? Are there any regulations that state that they need safety equipment too?

Not to mention Surf Skis and Surf life boats

It specifically says u need PFD if more than 400m offshore but surfers and SUP are excluded.
That is partly what is getting me a bit annoyed as it makes no sense, just give us an exclusion also....

To satisfy provisions of the Occupational Health & Safety Act of 1984, sponsored sailors should wear High-Vis vests when sailing. Department of Transport should look into it.

Sailors are at risk of RSI from carbon boards. They should be banned from professional events, on health and safety grounds. Inflatable SUP boards look like a sound design idea and should be mandated by PWA.

Short chop and large waves are a significant workplace risk for professional sailors. Events should be called off when swells exceed one metre.

Women who are sponsored, should not be asked to pose in swimwear for photo shoots. To decline such requests places them at a disadvantage in their employment. Equal Opportunity Act of 1984 has much to say about this issue.

Not once, have water police pulled me over for a random alcohol or drug test. Despite being an obviously bad windsurfer who appears under the influence.

How many times have you overshot Point Walter sandbar and entered an 8 knot zone doing in excess of 30 knots?

There is much wrong in the world of Windsurfing. Hospital emergency wards are full of broken and damaged sailors, on the mend at tax payer expense. Windsurfing needs more involvement by more government agencies, to protect the public interest. It's for your own good. Be thankful somebody cares about you.

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Mark _australia said..
It specifically says u need PFD if more than 400m offshore but surfers and SUP are excluded.
That is partly what is getting me a bit annoyed as it makes no sense, just give us an exclusion also....

Imagine if you had a windsurf SUP board, plonked a sail on and sailed more than 400m offshore in light winds on a calm ocean, then get busted for not having a PFD. If you went more than 400m offshore on the windsurf SUP in the same conditions without the sail then would you be excluded from needing a PFD? Ridiculous BS, isn't it!

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Hey pissed-off sailers of all kinds. I’ve been reading the thread and i’m thinking WTF. You see i’m a safety professional and have worked in marine, mining, chemical processing and oil & gas for a lot of years (i’m have thinning hair and going grey). I can tell you that every decision made in these industries are properly risk assessed and Mind you there are a few knee-jerk reactions decisions made but they are risk assessed once implemented and amended or retracted. If you’re going to impose something, ensure you has made a thorough risk assessment and NOT introduce something that impedes the ability to complete the task safely. DO NOT introduce further or new hazards/risks.

i don't think these regulations have been risk assessed.. well properly. Probably just legalities. "what can people sue us for?"


<div>I’d like to see their risk assessment to support their decision or was it made by people sitting, sipping their wanky coffee and sharing opinions. F**k knows.


<div>It’s a shame that people can go to the beach, run toward the water and do a swan dive straight into a sandbar, snap their neck and sue the council for not putting up a sign to say “hey don’t do that”. This world we are living in is becoming so regulated because of people beleive if they don’t look after themselves and get hurt they can blame someone else and sue whoever might be responsible. The insurance companies drive it because they make money. The people (Fnuckles) think money.

Look at the guy who just fell between the gap on the train and the people saved him. He didn’t hurt himself, he actually refused the ambulance. Then a few days later he reports on the news that he actually ** himself and is considering legal action…why, because the f******g lawyers found him.

<div>The local government are in fear of being sued in case someone f***s up and doesn’t get saved, in the right time, injures themselves or dies cause he/she f****d up and the family want compensation for the loss.

<div>Fight this fellow sailors and plan your trip out in the water. Be a friggin adult and look out for yourself and your mates. Maintenance….ensure your gear can handle the environment your taking it.

<div>Make your own risk assessment.

Unlike most of you forumers (don't think it's a word but anyhow), I’m a s**t sailor myself so i’m thinking: can i swim?…Yep, do i crash a lot?…yep, is my gear top notch? …nup. Well i better maintain. (it’s called planned maintenance. Kinda like your car) Do i have something that floats?….yep, my board (not to sure about kiters…sorry) i might wear some protection on my head. But i’m certainly not going to restrict or impede my ability to perform the task i’m set out to do.

<div>I think it’s not a well thought out decision. very wrong actually. And as Mark said it has greater implications to the sport. There will be a cost and it won’t only be financial.

^^^ Totally agree Vince. I doubt there was any risk analysis or mitigation process applied at all.

This appears to be a case of a few people at DOT safety section hearing that there is 'quite a lot' of kiting accidents.
Nevermind that the bulk are on land, by beginners who don't venture offshore, and NOT WINDSURFING.
So they have had a sit around hand-wringing session about "oooh we must do something" (either for promotion or to score some publicity)

So then that has decided to apply the existing rules to kiting and windsurfing with not a single thought to if we can even wear a type one PFD, or the fact that flotation can make things worse in bigger waves.

The "consultation" was typical of Govt - they are going to do it anyway, ask for submissions they know they will ignore and then they say we were consulted.

+1 Vpar !

If you look at it in a broader sense, any medium to high risk offshore water-based activity probably needs regulation to some extent when there is potential for an irresponsible or careless person to be in command, regardless whether its a kiteboard, windsurf board, PWC or sea kayak. Lets face it, aren't we all a bit irresponsible on the water at times? So if one commits an irresponsible, reckless or careless act more than 400 metres offshore on a churned up ocean and needs rescuing, who is going to take responsibility then?

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Stuthepirate said..

GazMan said..
So can anyone tell me what happens when a surfer or SUPaddler decides to venture more than 400m offshore? Are there any regulations that state that they need safety equipment too?

Not to mention Surf Skis and Surf life boats

Answering my own questions again:

Recreational canoes, kayaks, surf skis, inflatables or similar paddle craft that are propelled by a person using a paddle who is on or in the craft must comply with WA marine laws*. * WA marine laws do not apply to surfboards and stand up paddle boards.

Ref: www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/paddle-craft.asp

I was going to say that a wavesailing comp wouldnt be more than 400m from shore and then realised that Lancelin South passage is close to 1 km offshore, (but not if you measure from the island ;-) )

I bought a new PFD when the LOC changed the rules and said it had to be a type 2 not a type 3 (the main difference being high visibility color), and the canoeing one I got is actually just like having a slightly larger beer gut so not a problem. Wearing it in winter is also nice and warm. But Im not trying to duck under waves or anything like that.

I should also point out that last year I managed to lose both my sail and board when about 300m offshore, just by luck I wasnt on my normal outside turning point of 1000m . At the time I did start to think about how nice it would have been to be wearing a PFD. At least I had a shorty wet suit on so had some buoyancy, been in a similar situation many years ago in boardies and I remember how much harder that was. Also realized a bit of swimming training would be a good idea (still just an idea though).

Once I got the board back (a passing surfski found it for me) it was SO easy to paddle in, but I couldnt catch the board as the wind / waves was pushing it downwind quicker than I could swim. And the sail just went straight to the bottom. For 20+ years I had thought the chance of me getting left without a board was close to zero but it just shows if you wait long enough anything can happen.

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hardpole said..
I was going to say that a wavesailing comp wouldnt be more than 400m from shore and then realised that Lancelin South passage is close to 1 km offshore, (but not if you measure from the island ;-) )

I bought a new PFD when the LOC changed the rules and said it had to be a type 2 not a type 3 (the main difference being high visibility color), and the canoeing one I got is actually just like having a slightly larger beer gut so not a problem. Wearing it in winter is also nice and warm. But Im not trying to duck under waves or anything like that.

I should also point out that last year I managed to lose both my sail and board when about 300m offshore, just by luck I wasnt on my normal outside turning point of 1000m . At the time I did start to think about how nice it would have been to be wearing a PFD. At least I had a shorty wet suit on so had some buoyancy, been in a similar situation many years ago in boardies and I remember how much harder that was. Also realized a bit of swimming training would be a good idea (still just an idea though).

Once I got the board back (a passing surfski found it for me) it was SO easy to paddle in, but I couldnt catch the board as the wind / waves was pushing it downwind quicker than I could swim. And the sail just went straight to the bottom. For 20+ years I had thought the chance of me getting left without a board was close to zero but it just shows if you wait long enough anything can happen.

Simple, - never sail further offshore than the distance you are capable of swimming. For me, swimming a kilometre is no trouble at all. Some people I know can easily swim several kilometres in the open ocean. It all comes down to fitness and ability and we are not all the same in this area.

If the break I wanted to sail at was 2.0 km out to sea then I'd probably consider wearing some sort of PFD, or just not sail there unless I had a mate with a boat or jet-ski out there keeping an eye on me. Evaluate the risks, assess your own capabilities, and decide on a course of action that is best for your well-being.

Unfortunately, someone in government wants to circumvent Darwinism. I worry for the future of the human race as we keep putting in place laws to ensure that the stupid ones survive long enough to breed.

It would seem that WWA has raised with DOT many of the objections noted by contributers to the Topic (refer below).

WWA,
what has DOT's response been to these key points?

The key points raised by WWA during the consultation period were:
Exemptions:- WWA needs to able to apply to DOT for safety equipment exemptions for windsurfing events i.e for a wave event PFDs are not required
Access - CEO of DOT can gazette areas of water upon which persons may not engage in windsurfing or kite surfing.Regulations makes no mention of consultation and appears to group windsurfing and kitesurfing. WWA would like an inclusion in the statement of "following consultation with peak bodies" is requested.
PFDs:-WWA acknowledges that personal flotation can be a useful safety device. However in certain situations PFDs can have a detrimental effect.Swimming after a board when having fallen is more difficult in PFDs.Duck diving in breaking surf is much harder with flotation and separation from equipment becomes more likely as the sailor is on the surface where the full impact of the breaking waves is felt.There are some PFDs that are designed to work with a waist harness but are marked with the European CE standard. It would be useful if these could be confirmed as acceptable.
400m Limit:- It is very difficult to judge distance on the water and many spots have a break some distance offshore. WWA proposes that the requirement for PFDs extended to a greater distance offshore (1km) to allow popular locations to be used without additional encumbrence. Alternatively WWArequests an exemption for windsurfing in breaking waves (and therefore the transit between shore and these locations).
Flares:- Requirement for 4 flares reduced to 2 smoke and extended to (1Km) to allow popular locations to be sailed without additional encumbrence. Alternatively that an exemption is allowed for windsurfing in breaking waves (and therefore the transit between shore and these locations).
Personal Locator Beacons:-These devices seem a sensible addition to safety equipment for any windsurfer travelling over 2 Nm from shore. We would need to seek advice from manufacturers on how waterproof these devices are. For example the GPS units used by windsurfers were found to not withstand impact with water despite being internationally rated as waterproof. These devices have to be put in a waterproof pouch to survive even every day windsurfing activities.
General Comment:- Enforcement of a PFD/ Flares requirement at some of our most popular windsurfing locations (eg. Lancelin/ Geraldton) could have a significant impact on local sailing community and the attraction for tourist windsurfers (Inter/ intrastate and international). It could also have a negative impact on the windsurfing industry in WA which includes 8 shops, sail /board repairers, schools and international companies who complete research and development and train their professional sailors here

what a load of shi t.
freakin nanny state strikes again.