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We no longer have the ability to make judgement for ourselves as to when and where safety equipment is necessary.

400metres, seriously WTF!

Not sure how there going to enforce this but i,m removing all my sail numbers anyway.

I along with many others almost exclusively sail in the 400m - 2 mile area, a flare is one thing but a 406 epirb?

In my opinion this a another fine example of a credible user group being subjected to government child care as a direct result of leo wanker and his mates!

Leo was into dirt bikes and jet ski,s but after it became too regulated and he run out of space for his unit and jet pilot stickers he decided to play at the beach and here we are.

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<div>KiteWindsurfingSafetyEquip.pdf

Let,s try that again!


www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC-B-KiteWindsurfingSafetyEquip.pdf

I'd love to wear a big fat yellow life jacket when wavesailing. Not! That would increase the danger

Blurb on Dept of Transport Marine website must have been written by a kitesurfer, notice somethin missin?

"Kite Boarding and Windsurfing has evolved into a popular recreational activity across the world. Western Australia is a world class venue for kite boarding, and whether at an elite or recreational level, it is important to always ensure your safety comes first. Find out how to kite and wind surf safely, including safety equipment and tips."



www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/kite-and-windsurfing.asp

Jeez... how about getting some safety equipment on the Olympics pole jumpers?
Maybe an inflatable on the long jumpers, so they don't injure themselves landing...
or the full face helmet if you play tennis (this is a real danger, given Tomic's father...

our politicians have nothing else to do when they don't attend each others wedding on our expense.
We'll see the water speed cameras next...

Any of the windsurfing clubs notified of this or any local announcements anywhere?

Also notice that on the Department webpage regarding this under the Useful Links they are a bit one-sided?

change.org petition anyone?

“Endorsed by the WA Kite Surfing Association and Windsurfing Western Australia following
extensive consultation, the new requirements will be the subject of an education campaign and
phased in over the next 18 months.”

www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/MAC_P_Kite_surfing_safety_equip.pdf

Can some one from WWA confirm that "extensive consultation" has been sought after?

I can see the need to carry flares and a PFD2 for down winders and long distance as per LOC and SBWC but it seems a little excessive and dangerous for wave sailing.

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Stuthepirate said..
“Endorsed by the WA Kite Surfing Association and Windsurfing Western Australia following
extensive consultation, the new requirements will be the subject of an education campaign and
phased in over the next 18 months.”

www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/MAC_P_Kite_surfing_safety_equip.pdf

Can some one from WWA confirm that "extensive consultation" has been sought after?

I can see the need to carry flares and a PFD2 for down winders and long distance as per LOC and SBWC but it seems a little excessive and dangerous for wave sailing.

We you get dumped and your epirb activates, who will pay for the false rescue?

^^^ good point

WWA people I'd like to hear what this consultation is that DPI refer to?

Kiters too?!

They'd be lucky to get 50m from shore.
They've got to show off their new boardies...

I don't remember asking to be represented by anyone?
Do the kiting and windsurfing organisations really endorse this? We need to know?

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Stuthepirate said..
“Endorsed by the WA Kite Surfing Association and Windsurfing Western Australia following
extensive consultation, the new requirements will be the subject of an education campaign and
phased in over the next 18 months.”

www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/MAC_P_Kite_surfing_safety_equip.pdf

Can some one from WWA confirm that "extensive consultation" has been sought after?

I can see the need to carry flares and a PFD2 for down winders and long distance as per LOC and SBWC but it seems a little excessive and dangerous for wave sailing.

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Mark _australia said..
change.org petition anyone?

Absolutely, however this appears to have gone through an entire process minus the debate part, which is generally where protest will have a more positive influence.

For this to have undergone "extensive consultation" and missed the eyes and ears of everyone in the windsurfing community there is foul play at hand my friends,
what sorcery is this?

Until more information if forthcoming about the inception of this rubbish i,m on the fence.

Maritime safety Queensland says in relation to pfd type 1 lifejacket quote,

Not to be used by personal watercraft (PWC) riders, skiers or people being towed.

Sounds like that rule is in place to protect the wearer for the same reason that it would protect us, being that a pfd type 1 must have a collar fitted to keep the head out of water.

I personally wear a neil pryde type lifejacket for anything but wavesailing and have done for years, these have been accepted in the L.O.C for as long as i can remember.
A type 1 jacket is just not practical, thats where the mystery consultation process has failed us.

Another point of interest is the 'protected waters' designation.

Longwinded oh saltiest one can you clarify??

NAVIGABLE WATERS REGULATIONS 1958 - REG 22 . Terms used
In these regulations, subject to the context —
Acts means the Shipping and Pilotage Act 1967 , the Jetties Act 1926 and the Western Australian Marine Act 1982 ;
authorised person means a person appointed under section 117(2) of the Western Australian Marine Act 1982 ;
department means the department principally assisting the Minister in the administration of the Acts;
diving means diving using compressed gas for breathing by means of either surface supplied breathing apparatus or self-contained underwater breathing apparatus;
inspector means a person appointed under section 117(1) of the Western Australian Marine Act 1982 ;
motor boat means a vessel propelled by any means other than oars or sail and includes a speed boat and a sailing vessel which is equipped with propelling machinery and propelled by mechanical power;
navigable waters means —
(a) the territorial sea adjacent to the State; and
(b) the sea on the landward side of the territorial sea adjacent to the State that is not within the limits of the State; and
(c) waters within the limits of the State on which any vessel or any type of marine craft can be navigated;
officer of the department means an officer of the department and includes any Government officer or other person acting for or on behalf of or with the authority of the department;
owner in relation to a vessel includes the master or person in charge of the vessel;
protected waters means the waters contained in any lake, river or estuary, or by any breakwater, but does not include the waters of Cambridge Gulf or Lake Argyle;
public jetty means public jetty as defined in the Jetties Act 1926 , section 3;
speed boat means a motor boat designed for, or capable of, a speed in excess of 12 knots;
territorial sea means the territorial sea determined under the Seas and Submerged Lands Act 1973 (Commonwealth).

Hope that clears up the definition of protected waters.

For many people these regulations are surprising and in some cases shocking.

www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/kite-and-windsurfing-safe.asp

The position of the committee has been to support the revision of the regulations and to engage the DOT in consultation with a view to improving the regulations that were already in place for windsurfers.

It is important to note that Windsurfing has ALWAYS been regulated by DOT and been under a similar raft of regulations. Type 2 PFDs have ALWAYS been required when sailing 400m offshore. The main change in this latest revision of the regulations is that Kite Surfing is now covered by the same regulations.

The link below takes you to the WWA tumblr blog where full details of the key points raised with the DOT during the consultation have been posted.

windsurfingwa.tumblr.com/post/93772378743/new-safety-equipment-regulations#_=_

Ok so there has been consultation, extensive perhaps not?

Obviously by way of my own ignorance i was not aware of any current regulations in W.A aside from those governing organised w.w.a events.

Most importantly i for one will not endorse any umbrella regulation that refers to kitesurfing and windsurfing being similar in any way.
The next thing we will see W.W.A and W.A.K.S.A amalgamate and dilute the entire infrastructure of our sport

The D.O.T refers to the regulation as KITESAFE

Your blog seems to conflict with the proposal regarding the use of type 1 P.F.D,s.
Type 2 pfd,s are fine for most windsurfing situations, type 1 is not suitable for any!

If we have to rely on the common sense of an increasingly irresponsible percentage of kite surfers to govern our sport then we are all doomed.
And to all those out there doing the righty i suggest you protest loudly because mark my words this will be the beginning of the end as we know it!

When it becomes blindingly obvious that it can,t be enforced you can expect to see compulsory,

Sail Numbers
Registration of equipment
Training in proficiency and safety equipment
Standards in equipment design.

Think not? why do you think Leo wanker sold his boat/jetski/trailbike?

W.W.A, as our representative i hope you can focus on how this proposal effects windsurfers throughout what is sure to be a very contentious issue.

^^ I agree and think WWA needs to start distancing us from kiters in all of these matters. So far we have
(1) bans imposed at northern beaches and the idea floated by other councils
(2) Fishos being stirred up by that guy on radio proclaiming "windsurfers on downwind runs" tear thru and upset them
(3) now this one which appears driven by kiter safety issues

.... all as result of complaints about kiters and us being lumped in with them. And all that in the last 2 years. I bet there is more, that is just what we have heard about.

Thus I say WWA yes advocate on our behalf (top marks for doing so) but also in the same breath do everything you can to explain we are not the problem.

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Mark _australia said..
^^ I agree and think WWA needs to start distancing us from kiters in all of these matters. So far we have
(1) bans imposed at northern beaches and the idea floated by other councils
(2) Fishos being stirred up by that guy on radio proclaiming "windsurfers on downwind runs" tear thru and upset them
(3) now this one which appears driven by kiter safety issues
.... all as result of complaints about kiters and us being lumped in with them. And all that in the last 2 years. I bet there is more, that is just what we have heard about.
Thus I say WWA yes advocate on our behalf (top marks for doing so) but also in the same breath do everything you can to explain we are not the problem.

Mark

were can i find more info on you first point "bans imposed at northern beaches and the idea floated by other councils"

because i was scoping out some spots

...or we could just ignore the whole thing...

They keep inventing this crap, and cutting cost by removing the police presence.
Yep, that's what I'll do.

Thanks for all the feedback positive and not so positive as we need the opinion of the entire windsurfing community on these issues if we are to present a consistent argument to government on windsurfing related issues. This feedback is being read by the DOT and will can collated by WWA and submitted during ongoing consultation.

It has been noted that there is conflicting information between the DOT web site and the printable information brochure that has been released. This has been highlighted to DOT only with our opinion the Type 1 PFDs are not suitable for water based activities of any kind.

At every chance WWA highlights the difference between kiting and windsurfing so we don't get dragged into kite related issues.

this kite vs windsurfer argument . It's bullsh!t . We as a collective of water users should be banding together to fight DOT to make the rules in a decent manner . DOT have no idea but lets not get into a tit for tat argument here and work together as people who love the wind and water .

You are wrong mate - windsurfing and kitesurfing are two completely different sports, and they have completely different safety considerations. WWA is right to continue to represent windsurfers in WA by highlighting this fact.

Anyway, I suspect DOT was both unaware of the difference between windsurfing and kitesurfing and also intending this to apply to 'open ocean' scenarios like the outer reefs off ocean reef, or sailing from the mainland to rotto etc.

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dusta said..
this kite vs windsurfer argument . It's bullsh!t . We as a collective of water users should be banding together to fight DOT to make the rules in a decent manner . DOT have no idea but lets not get into a tit for tat argument here and work together as people who love the wind and water .

Sorry, - I disagree completely.

Windsurfers have this great 'get out of trouble instantly' trick. It requires simply opening both hands and letting go of the boom. The sail falls in the water, and everything comes to a rapid stop, with no risk to ourselves or others (unless they are within 4m or so).

Furthermore, if we get into trouble some distance from shore, we always have the option of ditching the rig and paddling home on a nice large floaty board. Even a relatively small wave sailing board has a lot more floatation than the average surfboard.

Yes, - there is some kindred spirit as recreational water and wind users, but the safety requirements and controls required by councils and others for each sport are completely different.

i never said safety requirements were the same , i simply said this is something that should be fought as one group . Kiters who are going to be out at sea are more than likely going to be the kind of people who do the L2L, LOC races so will have slalom/race/high volume boards who too can also just paddle back into shore . I always wear my type 2 pfd and flares if i am going further out than i can swim back in .


Anyway i am fighting for both sides and would happily sign a windsurfing petetion or whatever is needed for DOT to rework the rules .


But besides all of that how does anyone even think that after 3 years when the laws are actually able to be enforced how are they going to actually catch anyone. DOT doesn't have the resources .

Just look at how innefective fisheries are at checking bag limits of boaties, hardly ever happens as they have no resources .

Dusta I will clarify my position - as you know I am not anti kiter and hate you all, regardess of what some here have said in the past.

I totally agree with WWA and WASKA (AKSA too) fighting this big time. Those in DOT / Govt who have no idea what we actually do (and how a PFD can be unsafe, not safer) need to be presented with the evidence from our peak bodies. United approach is good.

However........
Windsurfing has had minor grizzles from swimmers and surfers in the past - never went anywhere.
The councils never considered bans.
Any rules about us needing PFD's, flares and/or EPIRB were not known by windsurfers nor enforced, and DOT had no intention of reinforcing the rules with windsurfers.

Suddenly with heaps of issues with kiters there is all manner of bans, regulation, complaints etc coming up and we're lumped in with kiters. If it was just one thing I'd say united front - but it is not just one thing.
I fear we will get dragged down too so we need to yell to all these local govt mobs and DOT etc that we are very different. Sorry.

I also warned of this 5yrs ago with kiters not obeying the rules WAKSA imposed at Dutchies, rogue idiots with no idea of right of way in general and so on. So did some other kiters - but we were shouted down (or outright abused for daring to have an opinion). Given the beligerent attitude from many kiters seen in most threads about bans / regulation I think we as windsurfers need to distance ourselves now.

WAKSA are all good peoples but must find it real hard...

i actually agree with you 100% Mark and i know you don't hate all kiters .I think there are alot of arrogant kiters around and i see it daily . I also fail to see how DOT are going to enforce this when it does come into effect in 2017 .

The way i see it is the only people who are going to get fined are the ones who actually get rescued out past 400m and don't have the required safety equipment with them .

Lets all sit back and take a big breath and put this into a proper perspective.

The reality is that this 99.9???% of the time this will never be and can never be monitored

Think about the practicalities of it, every surf break they are going to have either someone on the beach or a boat out in the water to pull you up. it's just not going to happen.

Not every boat ramp has a fisheries inspector sitting on it and they are a lot better resourced than the DOT

Yes there will be laws and if you get into trouble and need rescuing you'll most likely get fined for not having the right gear. but I'd say (and don't blame meif I'm wrong) you'd have to be extremely unlucky to be pinged otherwise.


Tongue firmly in cheek here and flame suit on

It will be good seeing all the guys in the official wave sailing comps now having to wear floaties

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elmo said..
It will be good seeing all the guys in the official wave sailing comps now having to wear floaties

Not so silly. What happens when WWA and LOC can't get public liability insurance unless competitors wear a PFD? Cos companies will go to the letter of the law even if it is nonsensical.

The law needs to go. That is, windsurfers and kiters are excluded same as SUP is excluded, that would be a simple resolution.

Competitors already have to wear PFD's and carry flares for the LOC

^^ I mean wavesailing comps Elmo. Switch on