Apart from Philip Koster's preference for twins, who else rides a twin on the PWA? I think the only other pro still using a twin is Marcillio Brown riding his quad as a twin at Pozo

But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

You know, I rode a Starboard in 2009 and hated it, so now I bad mouth the 2019 range every chance I get. ??

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forceten said..

Gestalt said..
i haven't ridden the twins being discussed here but i always wondered why the designers of twins tend to keep the tail narrow and the fins close together instead of being more of a fish design.

Because the forces on a Windsurf board are different to a surf board.
While similarities exist, they react differently. Quad placement, typically on a surf board has all fins nearer the rail, the preferred Windsurf, voted by most made, have rears inward towards the centerline.

take note of the actual twins offered now, hardly any Windsurf, oh several quads say they can be used as twins .

Each to their own
starviard nuevo 101 was an amazing board
twinnies are great

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bowsa said..

forceten said..

Gestalt said..
i haven't ridden the twins being discussed here but i always wondered why the designers of twins tend to keep the tail narrow and the fins close together instead of being more of a fish design.

Because the forces on a Windsurf board are different to a surf board.
While similarities exist, they react differently. Quad placement, typically on a surf board has all fins nearer the rail, the preferred Windsurf, voted by most made, have rears inward towards the centerline.

take note of the actual twins offered now, hardly any Windsurf, oh several quads say they can be used as twins .

Each to their own
starviard nuevo 101 was an amazing board
twinnies are great

Isn't that a Nude design ? Was ?

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philn said..
But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

Bet there are more single fin riders in the PWA than twins.

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philn said..
You know, I rode a Starboard in 2009 and hated it, so now I bad mouth the 2019 range every chance I get. ??

If you rode the 2019 range and you hated them... you would have a personal basis to bad mouth them should you chose to do.

i didn't like the Acid, EVO Wicked Twin. I love the Carve 80 111, Quad 75, 2011. Hypersonic 105, F152

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forceten said..

philn said..
But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

Bet there are more single fin riders in the PWA than twins.

in waves? .... nope

From another forum
"
Don't bother with MFCs... as nice as they look, they're far less durable, far more expensive and not really an increase in performance from K4. I used to think K4 were cheap plastic ****e, but they feel really nice on a board, and if they're good enough for Thomas Traversa to charge triple mast high waves, and win World Cups, they're good enough for any of us!

Plus, when you run them over rocks (which I've never, ever done... or not!) they don't splinter as easily as the likes of Drake, MUF and other G10 type fins."

TT , USED K4s, before he was a sponsored K4 rider.

^^^ That is referring to the red painted fibreglass ones that all split about 2-3 years ago and they scrapped them and now do real G10 and real carbon again.
That's why I referred to the old G10 ones from about 2012-5

Plus if you hit rocks at least you can repair conventional laminates, you cant fill n sand plastic. Dunno about his 'advantages' list so far.

To each their own but the K4 fan club do really seem to froth a bit.

They don't stab you as badly.

Your rail is more important than you fins on a wave board.

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forceten said..

philn said..
You know, I rode a Starboard in 2009 and hated it, so now I bad mouth the 2019 range every chance I get. ??

If you rode the 2019 range and you hated them... you would have a personal basis to bad mouth them should you chose to do.

i didn't like the Acid, EVO Wicked Twin. I love the Carve 80 111, Quad 75, 2011. Hypersonic 105, F152

Irony - the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

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gorgesailor said..

forceten said..

philn said..
But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

Bet there are more single fin riders in the PWA than twins.

in waves? .... nope

Irony - the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

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forceten said..

philn said..
But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

Bet there are more single fin riders in the PWA than twins.

Initially I thought your comment was full of it, so I did an image search of PWA windsurfing. The first image I clicked on proved you are right. My apologies for doubting you.

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philn said..

forceten said..

philn said..
But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

Bet there are more single fin riders in the PWA than twins.

Initially I thought your comment was full of it, so I did an image search of PWA windsurfing. The first image I clicked on proved you are right. My apologies for doubting you.

ahh.... more irony I guess...

I tried MFC Flex (found on RRD's I believe), MUF and stock Drakes and MB fins.
I liked the Flex best on the Quad but MUF on a Twin.

Probably, the number of fins and shorter length work better with flex, otherwise it may feel stiff.
As a twin, I like to have a strong drive so the MUF's are great.
They do release more suddenly though. The Flex give more of a heads-up before spinning out.

MUF's are probably the fastest (jumps), MFC second a bit more fun on a wave.
Unfortunately never got to try K4's. I wonder how much different they are from the MFC Flex?

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Mark _australia said..
^^^ That is referring to the red painted fibreglass ones that all split about 2-3 years ago and they scrapped them and now do real G10 and real carbon again.
That's why I referred to the old G10 ones from about 2012-5

Plus if you hit rocks at least you can repair conventional laminates, you cant fill n sand plastic. Dunno about his 'advantages' list so far.

To each their own but the K4 fan club do really seem to froth a bit.

Be nice, and post test results from your choice of fins. Red or green or

www.k4fins.com/2017/11/24/fin-speed-testing-update/

^^^ firstly this thread seems to be mostly about what feel people prefer.

My point was that as soon as the bigger guys say they don't like flexy fins, the K4 crew come out swinging. No, most big guys want stiffer fins.... and that isn't having a crack at K4. I personally think the best feel I've found is in the more vertical and stiff G10 MFC's from a while back.

Your thing from whoever wrote that on the other forum is a bit cheeky of him as he mentions g10 splitting as if they always do, no it was one model series from MFC and they fixed it up. "Don't bother with MFCs... as nice as they look, they're far less durable, far more expensive and not really an increase in performance from K4."
That's a bit rough.......

Now as to speed testing - they are testing numbers of fins, and styles of fins, only of their own brand. Its not a comparison to anything.

I don't like fins that are too flexy. Who cares?

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Gestalt said..
Looking for reviews on quad fin setups from users. Pros and Cons of your fav fins.

I don't mind bespoke hand made suggestions as well.

This is the intend of the thread. Pro Con fav fins.
Surely if it doesn't feel good it doesn't qualify as a favorite.

I like the bit about K4 riders being " frothy" . What is frothy ?

I reckon the MFC s that didn't last so long were made to be flexy.
I use fins that aren't G10 all the time , including surf fins in ProBox bases, they have worked for years, and don't self destruct.

Who cares

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Mark _australia said..
^^^ firstly this thread seems to be mostly about what feel people prefer.

My point was that as soon as the bigger guys say they don't like flexy fins, the K4 crew come out swinging. No, most big guys want stiffer fins.... and that isn't having a crack at K4. I personally think the best feel I've found is in the more vertical and stiff G10 MFC's from a while back.

Your thing from whoever wrote that on the other forum is a bit cheeky of him as he mentions g10 splitting as if they always do, no it was one model series from MFC and they fixed it up. "Don't bother with MFCs... as nice as they look, they're far less durable, far more expensive and not really an increase in performance from K4."
That's a bit rough.......

Now as to speed testing - they are testing numbers of fins, and styles of fins, only of their own brand. Its not a comparison to anything.

I don't like fins that are too flexy. Who cares?

I think it's generalizations that hurt the intent of the thread. Obviously some heavier guys do like K4's, the first K4 poster - jh2703 said he is 100kg. He was also very specific about which ones. Personally, I also love those G10 Choco's that came with my old Fanatic. That said they were the flexiest G10 fins I ever had(very thin). But I am lighter.

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bowsa said..
K4 too flexy if you're 90kg or over

The original K4 were the flexy variant......You tried the more recent 2018 Scorcher model, that is stiffer?
i think these are the "go to" all round fins for a heavier rider

If a moulded plastic fin claims it can be the 'go to allround fin' for a heavier rider I'd love to try it.

Can we organise some demo sets? I can't see that a moulded thermoplastic can ever be as stiff as a laminated and autoclaved fabric in resin................ like G10 or G11 ................ but I'd love to be proven wrong.

I can't help but think surely a thinly shaped flexible g10 fin will snap back into place quicker than a plastic fin and therefore be a more efficient fin . A bit like a sail with a 100% carbon mast snaps back in to shape quicker than one with a 30% carbon mast.

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northy1 said..

bowsa said..
K4 too flexy if you're 90kg or over

The original K4 were the flexy variant......You tried the more recent 2018 Scorcher model, that is stiffer?
i think these are the "go to" all round fins for a heavier rider

The original fins were the flexy variation. The longer FSW and Slalom fins are stiffer. In addition to the Scorcher the Leon is super stiff or flexy. The feel of any fin is subjective to the riders feel, and could vary day to day and various conditions.

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R1DER said..
I can't help but think surely a thinly shaped flexible g10 fin will snap back into place quicker than a plastic fin and therefore be a more efficient fin . A bit like a sail with a 100% carbon mast snaps back in to shape quicker than one with a 30% carbon mast.

So if it did snap back into place, sooner, which according to others here, it won't or can't, How does this make it a more efficient fin ?

to clarify:

The original K4 were the flexy variant......You tried the more recent 2018 Scorcher model, that is stiffer?
i think these are the "go to" all round fins for a heavier rider, FROM WITHIN THE K4 RANGE

ps
Fyi K4 are super popular in UK...lots of people swap out their originals...esp i see the central fin on tri fins which are often deemed too big in their original and the K4 are a cost effective alternative to try smaller

ping steve @ k4 a message...he is extremely helpful and knowledgeable with a real passion for windsurfing

pps
im just a punter...no association with k4 etc or anyone else for that matter

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forceten said..

philn said..
But those 2 are hacks so twins must be sh!t?

Bet there are more single fin riders in the PWA than twins.

I watched the Aloha classic again this year, as I try to do every year. I was looking for twins, because I own one, I didn't see any (not proof that there wasn't any however), only quads, thrusters, and a few singles. This helped my confirm my feelings about twins, they aren't the best, at least for me, mine is up for sale here in the states. My problem with twins is no acceleration coming out of a hard bottom turn, which for me sets up the rest of the wave, I look for that feeling of being squirted out of a bottom turn with speed, no matter which set of twins I used (I tried 3 different brands/sizes), and could never get there. It worked well for everything else though, but to me the bottom turn is the most important part of a successful wave ride. It's a Starboard Kode twin, I replaced it with a JP Thruster Quad Pro, and I couldn't be happier. The only thing I don't like about the JP is the forward boxes are mini-Tuttles, not many options there, but the fins that came with it are pretty good.

Red Bull Storm chase.
Leon Jamaer, 3rd Place. Leon who rides K4 fins, and has his own series.

not to be considered that if you use his fins, you will be in the same league, but then it can't hurt. Lol.

I don't know what 1 and 2 were using fin wise.

Damn twinnies won't die.

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Gestalt said..
thanks jh,

i'll track down the k4 as well.

you can buy K4 fins directly from the uk, you'll save 20% by not paying UK tax but loose on postage..