One day Chris you too may be old and 90+kg and only then will you understand that 90l wave boards do not work in light winds for 90kg+ sailors!

Most of us don't stay at our teenage weights much past their mid 20's.

Check back in 10 years when the bakery, maccas and beer nuts are starting to add up!

The OES Quad 105 board is unreal, just seems to do everything well. We have had **** conditions here so havent sailed the board as much as I would have liked. Mostly have had a couple of short sails in the bay which the board has done really well, even slides well for freestyle which I didnt expect, will definately get some photos to you when I get a chance to get it out in good conditions, but really happy with it.


Lee

Here some info about the larger wave board with a Quad set up, with a good combination of flat water/bump jump freestyle and wave riding, so don't be too worried at adding 10 to 15 L of volume to your next muilti fin wave board

I've seen Bert's 105 OES quad. It looks very nice, I might grap it next time I see him. I reckon he weights 58 kg's.

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OESaustralia said...




The OES Quad 105 board is unreal, just seems to do everything well. We have had **** conditions here so havent sailed the board as much as I would have liked. Mostly have had a couple of short sails in the bay which the board has done really well, even slides well for freestyle which I didnt expect, will definately get some photos to you when I get a chance to get it out in good conditions, but really happy with it.


Lee

Here some info about the larger wave board with a Quad set up, with a good combination of flat water/bump jump freestyle and wave riding, so don't be too worried at adding 10 to 15 L of volume to your next muilti fin wave board

Just out of curiosity - I checked out the tail end rail shape on the 105 Quad and it was really different to anything I have seen - relatively thick over the fin area and slightly domed in the centre and really thin tapering rails and sharp edge - whats the thinking behind that?

Intresteng but are you wanting to plane or plod or wave ride.
Guessing ...... achieving both is the goal ,but hey in the early days on the west coast of SA the old school masters Paul Grevelle and Sunny in the 80s and 90s only ever used a 4.0m in 5 to 10 knots but had floaty chuncky 8 foot thrusters boards called wave pigs ........they shreaded it up in 2 to 10 foot.

Over size sails on a small sinkyboard defeats the purpose !

Never be shy of volume ........... u just gotta get the rocker line and rails right and the dragon will be slayed.

I GOT 2 wave boards a total floater carries my biggest sail 5.6 for 5 knot up and a semi but floater generally 4 my 5.0m............. but it will carry my 5.6 not the sweets combination ie big sail on smaller board

Any way / many occasions ill take the floater out in 6, 8,10 foot plus and get the same performance on it as my slightly refined semi but floating smaller board with the 5.6 or the 5.0m.

The only factor effecting its overall performence is its ability to handle chop. The boards are shaped pritty simmilar ,but its the volume that allows gusty light conditions to be handled with easy.

In fact i shaped the floater, with one thing in mind....... i wanted to be the last one on the water and watch da kites fall out of the sky around me .

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king of the point said...

Intresteng but are you wanting to plane or plod or wave ride.
Guessing ...... achieving both is the goal ,but hey in the early days on the west coast of SA the old school masters Paul Grevelle and Sunny in the 80s and 90s only ever used a 4.0m in 5 to 10 knots but had floaty chuncky 8 foot thrusters boards called wave pigs ........they shreaded it up in 2 to 10 foot.

Over size sails on a small sinkyboard defeats the purpose !

Never be shy of volume ........... u just gotta get the rocker line and rails right and the dragon will be slayed.

I GOT 2 wave boards a total floater carries my biggest sail 5.6 for 5 knot up and a semi but floater generally 4 my 5.0m............. but it will carry my 5.6 not the sweets combination ie big sail on smaller board

Any way / many occasions ill take the floater out in 6, 8,10 foot plus and get the same performance on it as my slightly refined semi but floating smaller board with the 5.6 or the 5.0m.

The only factor effecting its overall performence is its ability to handle chop. The boards are shaped pritty simmilar ,but its the volume that allows gusty light conditions to be handled with easy.

In fact i shaped the floater, with one thing in mind....... i wanted to be the last one on the water and watch da kites fall out of the sky around me .

KOTP - part of the reason for me getting a bigger board is that i dont want to be rescued by the dingy again on this year's Abr trip.. Speaking off - have you locked in any dates yet?

(hoping that the the ride out this year will be lesss swelly!)

Same dates hopefully ... but not locked in yet..... thks for the motivation to get it / me organised again. .
If you were on the last trips you get first options ...........to re book this year
See soon hooksy ......for more fat times and adventures on the high seas

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king of the point said...

Intresteng but are you wanting to plane or plod or wave ride.
Guessing ...... achieving both is the goal ,but hey in the early days on the west coast of SA the old school masters Paul Grevelle and Sunny in the 80s and 90s only ever used a 4.0m in 5 to 10 knots but had floaty chuncky 8 foot thrusters boards called wave pigs ........they shreaded it up in 2 to 10 foot.

What about the AHD Seal 102 - or the concept of the AHD seal, if not the board.

Don't have one, not trying to sell one, but the concept that it is a short board surf board with a sail appeals to me.

From reading the sales literature it is not designed to plane. It is designed to surf.

I assume it is supposed to turn and drive like a thruster with tight radius bottom to top wave riding, not 1,000 kmphr DTL.

I quite enjoy sub-planing wave sailing.

But - the big annoyances I have in sub-plane wave sailing is all the boards are designed to plane at the slightest wind. I don't particularly want to plane if it is such a struggle to do so, so long as I can get out I want to surf the wave.

Early planing from sail power and 'driveable' thruster on the wave face need different things from a board.

And the sub-planing wave boards surf like long boards (SUPs or SUP derivatives).

And, on standard wave boards in sub-planing riding I have to move my back foot to mid way between the front and back straps on the leeward side to crank a tight enough bottom turn. The tail doesn't have enough float for the short period of time before you straighten your legs to drive the fin (and not enough fins to drive anyway)

With little or no drive from the sail you can turn tighter (but slower). I guess your progression down the wave is at the same speed, but you get tighter turns in. Many years ago I put a footstrap in this position on a board, Was only good for one tack sailing but was good. The old assymetrics had kind of similar strap settings (but were designed to do a different thing).

I see one answer is just to surf when conditions are like this, but plenty of times I reckon sailing is more enjoyable, particularly when it is smallish, sloppyish and slowish. When it is 20 knots and 3 foot, a 4.5m sail and plenty of waves could beat a big sail trying to crank enough power to plane, but then being cumbersome on the face.

Guys
I agree with Roberto, I reckon the size of the board needs to be proportional to your weight. I have watched some of the top guys who weight in at 60kg and use 70litre boards.

I weigh in at 96kg (less muscle than there should be) and use a 102litre JP freestyle wave which starts to skip out on the bottom turns in 25kts plus but is great in less. Above 25kts I need a proper wave board to have the looseness to rip properly.

Going for bigger board in the lighter East Coast winds has meant I get out a lot more

Jase

Have to mention that there are some very nice larger multi-fin wave boards of various configurations in the 2011 JP line-up due in September that both plane easily and turn well.
I mentioned it elsewhere, but in addition to the 75, 83, 93 and 99L sizes, the Surf FX boys have requested a 109 version as they see a significant market and need for it on the East coast.
Let's face it, windsurfing is mostly done by an older crew who have been at it for a few decades and many are 80-100kg in weight.

i know there are multiple ways to skin a cat but if i were designing a larger wave board it would be a fish.

i think it's the best way to get a wide tail with decent rocker and thin rail. then i'd stick 3 an not 4 fin's into it.

the old starboard fish 95 and 97 were awesome light wind boards- super slipperry rockers but loose due to their shortness. And you couldnt miss a landing as they were so floaty.

And i only ever used them with 5.8s - nowadays a 6.4 would be super easy to throw on there - especially with new lighter rigs.

I was using a 7.5 (gator) in vietnam last november on an old 111 carve - and was able to duck tack the sail and get some pretty rewarding cross shore DTL wave rides - but had to ride rear foot strapless - which wasnt actually that hard. There were full carving turns to be had.

Back to the fish:

squareness and Full rail connection was possible on these boards - thanks to the massive vee across the super wide tail - and super bladed out rails in the back.

got a bit of a handful out of the lip when powered up - but thats when its time to get the all rounder out.

i might have to campaign Starboard to re release these in wood carbon - i reckon they would be absolutely crazy loose with a tuneable quad configuration.

.

that's what i like about what a fish shape produces. with a rounded/pin you just can't keep enough v in the tail. with a fish it lets you use a deep v giving a very wavy rocker out on the rails helping the board transition from rail to rail. plus the width allows very hard square thin rails.

i've got a 95lt single fin custom fish, it's seen better days now and with repairs etc is a little too heavy to get it flying in really light winds. but it turns like no other board i own. if i had my time again with it it would definitely be a tri fin. as i only go out in small surf a deep single fin is fine, but in the bigger stuff it needs the grip that a tri fin would offer.

for a big guy 115lt would do the job

i think something most manufacturers do when beefing up boards for heavy guys is that they just make them thicker to get the volume into them. i'm not a fan of that method. i'd rather a thinner wider board.

reflex what's your thoughts on tri versus quad?

OES 2011 Quad 120
Length 8.0'' 244cm
Nose 16.5''
Width 26''/ 66cm
Tail 16.75''
Thickness 135mm
Out line and rocker would be the same as the 2010 boards,
will best suit the larger 100+ KG guys wavesail in our gusty winter winds.

pete,

what about 36, 24,36

jokes.

how about

length 136cm
nose 46cm
width 67cm
tail 45cm
thickness 11-12cm

fish

length 136cm????
It may be easier and cheaper to just get the mast track turned 90 degrees and sail your wave boards side ways at a 136cm lenght !!
[Lame Joke]
While the extra area in the nose would not have any problems, you will have to be carefull of adding too much tail area and straightening the plan shape out too much, if you want to really turn hard on a decent wave. Far better to add thickness and volume under the back foot and keeping the curve in the hips of the board for better hard turning.
Don't want to turn it into a 4 fin freeride board which is fast DTL ,but lets go as soon as it has to turn fast and hard on a wave face.

lol, yes it's a boggie board. unfortunate typo......

my current fish is 61 wide and 45 tail. turns better than any board i have sailed and others have commented on this also.

i think the fish tail suits this type of design because you can keep it wide in the tail and relatively wide in the middle and still introduce a lot of tail V and rail rocker so the carve remains hard.

agree though, if it was a round or pin tail with less rail rocker it would just feel like a freeride board.

i know it's personal preference but as a heavy weight i find wider and thinner feels better as the width gets you going and the thinness responds to foot pressure more comfortably.

edit* if only old sticky finger could post their thoughts rather than red thumbs for no purpose or value.

I'm not a starboard fan. But I think the fish range that Reflex mentioned was probably one of the best boards they ever brought out for cr4p conditions.

Yes ,it does come down to personal preference, your body weight and your local sailing conditions.
Basicly we are scaleing up our 100 and 105 quads that have being working well in the east coast states over our last Summer
While predominantly designed as a wave board, there is some Xcross over performance into Freestyle and bump and jump, that fish designed boards will never be good at.

Have been away working for awhile, but have missed nothing in the way of wind, here has been crap too.
After the start of the summer seabreeze season seemed promising, the season just fizzed out to be just pure frustration.
However i did get a few sails on the quad 100 at gerroa & birdie beach, both cross-shore dtl spots. The turning capacity of the quad is very impressive, it certainly improved my wave-riding, so i'm stoked. Would like more time on the water to experiment with fin positions etc, that will come fingers crossed. So my overview is that i made the right choice on a board that will progress my sailing, which is what every sailor wants.
After such a frustrating season of lite winds, bearing in mind i weigh 100kg, what size do you think the quad could be amped up to 110lt, 115lt 120lt before it looses its feel?
Keep up the good work.
Cheers
Peter Bartlett

The 105 Quad board is unreal, just seems to do everything well. We have had **** conditions here too so havent sailed the board as much as I would have liked. Mostly have had a couple of short sails in the bay which the board has done really well, even slides well for freestyle which I didnt expect, will definately get some photos to you when I get a chance to get it out in good conditions, but really happy with it.


Lee H Melboune

i reckon big wave boards are a real mindset. And so many crew limit their thinking.

At 85 kg - I could have fun with a 120 lt board and a 7.5m sail - and still get it square to the face / lip for rewarding hacks and reos. I could sail all day on a set up like that - so it would be fun enough not to want to come in.

When i was 15 years old and weighing 60 kg i was wavesailing 6.5 s and 105 litre boards in asian windslop - and loving it.

Personally - due to my style I am a big single fin fan - mainly due to safety out of the lip when its big - and the ability to jump in a direct and predictable trajectory.No doubt about it though - they arent as loose as quads in the small or the big stuff. But if i want loose - i just push harder.

However i have ridden good twin,widow maker and quad configurations.

I never liked thrusters (actually they are good for microsurgery turns in onshore mush - but thats about it). Had a thruster for 2 years - and my sailing went backwards because of it - and jumps were completely unpredictable. Maybe it made me good at recovering trajectories gone wrong..

So essentially all fin configurations can have their place.

agree pete,

the fish is not the best freeride or freestyle board, too much rocker and wrong rail shape. but so much fun in east coast waves and wind chop. i like how they are slow and slashy so you don't outrun the mush. good option for a bigger board for surf.

reflex,

I've been really getting into widow makers of late. i find the setup is like a swiss army knife giving the option of either single or tri fin. my big board is a 125lt with fcs. i use the fcs fins in bay waves/small surf and higher wind bump and jump. keep it single fin for freestyle/ride and light winds not quite a gun outline like a traditional WM but i love it!.....

for me though, the fin setup aerial comments go well over my head. i just don't have that ability or insight.

The fishes i have ridden all had ridiculously slippery rockers (which you need in a light wind board) and planed up super early..

And they certainly werent slow in the bottom 50% of a sails wind range. I always relied on that speed to initiate bottom turns and carry energy - pretty important when the wind is sub 15 knots.

Widows are a pretty versatile set up. I have seen lots of good work done on widow maker set ups.

I have the 86 Starboard fish and use it for my light wind wave board with a 5.7m Tushy sail.
For me this combo gets me going in 15 knots. I love the way it surfs. I liked it so much that I got the 76 Starboard fish.
I wish Starboard would bring out another fish range soon because mine are starting to show their age

105 fish WM

was wondering what you guys think of this as an option?

be critical!

ITS A NUDE WITH COSMETIC FLYERS

i can assure you that is not a nude.

firstly i have never seen a nude board, and the wingers were intended to allow a power rail with reduced area.

outline for the heavyweights

asking crew what they think of a picture on a forum wont really tell you much about the board.

get all the curves to flow into each other - make sure its got plenty of vee across the back (critical on wide tails)

All things being equal -the outline looks fine - but i have seen uglier boards that work amazingly and nice looking outlines that dont turn worth a damn.


Build it , ride it and i cant see why it wouldnt work for its designed purpose. As long as the rocker line isnt tragic and you get all the vee, tuck and edges correct - which a plan on a forum page is going to tell you f**** all about.

Ok the further up the side rail you position the side fins the siffer the board will be comming off the bottom AND top . But it also gives you great up wind drive of the rail. You can gain extra 10 % higher pointing ability but at a compamise of it feeling stiffer.

The front of the main fin and the tips of the side are touching if you put a straight line from a side view will = loose

As this distence of your side fin increases forward of your main fin the board will stiffen in its manovours.

Ps You gotta have the tips of your main fin flexing the same as your side fins,

Softer the flex the looser the feel and effort required to find that slide with slip and drive off the bottom

If your side fins are stiffer you get more direct drive ,less slip and side and hENce HAVE to crank it harder for it to realease SLIDE.

If there to big......YOU get to much lift
If there to small you dont get lift AND SQUERT.

Like to see a bit of V from back strap throu the flat section 2 to 3mm this helps release the tail and stops the flat becoming stuck on the water when turning. ie helps release water of the rails.

Oh and make sure you spread your straps ..........a further apart than your used to you get used to it and it will make you stand upright and center your weight for more drive down the line.

Im getting Dragon Breath ............slayers

Thinking about me old Delta thruster while reading this thread.
An ad I read for one in WA suggests that later models from mine had swallow tails.
Is that true ?

The new JP's I'm referring to are a single fin thruster design. Everyone seems to be doing those this year. RRD have them, as do Starboard.

EDit - looked up the Delta site to try and answer my own question. Seems my board only lasted in production for a year or so, but tehy still seem to know what they are on about, and still seem to be in business.