If you look back through the years you will find spider technology is about 200 million years old...

Oh wait, my mistake.. I'm a tit with no idea and should stop posting smug comments when I have no idea.

Select to expand quote

dan berry said...

So what does it do? Arrest a tear ( minimize amount of panels ripped) or add stability? The radial bits I mean.

No, it's basically the clew patch. Instead of having a large traditional patch, the load out of the clew runs through these fibres. The main difference is that the load is transferred ACROSS any seams, all the way through the sail. So the clew isn't trying to tear of the patch, or pull apart the perpendicular seams.
It just works out to be a really strong way to build a clew, that happens to be way lighter than the old patch method. Swing weight is a lot less.

Any wind over your side lately?

Yea not bad here lately. 25-30kts today so heading down to windang. Cold as hell though. How's the west been?

Too cold in WA - I escaped to the Canaries, but heading back tomorrow... Will have to dig out my 5/3 wettie.

Select to expand quote

Ben Severne said...

Too cold in WA - I escaped to the Canaries, but heading back tomorrow... Will have to dig out my 5/3 wettie.

Hi Ben,

Tried your new S1 in the 5.3m on the weekend and loved it. Pretty sold on getting a 5.3 and 4.7 for our summer sea breezes but struggling with deciding on which way to go with the 4.2 and 3.7.

Anything over 25 knots here in Melbourne (bay) tends to be gusty frontal weather and at those wind speeds its a 4.2 or 3.7 for me.

At 70kg, am I better with the softer SWATS for the gusty stronger winds? I tried last years SWAT in the 5.2m and really liked the feel of that as well.

Derek

Matt here from Severne Australia -Ben is in transit flying back to Australia from europe - i am sure he will chime in soon.

All things being equal i beleive a blade 4.2 / 3.7 will have the best top end control and wind range in the sail range. The s1 sacrifices a TINY bit of top end with a more engaged leech - but delivers a super fast crisp response.

check out the boardseeker.com reviews of the 4.7 and 5.3 wave sails - they deliver a pretty good summary of the design principles. Also check out the sail designers coments in those same boardseeker articles.

They were very complimentary on their statements about the S1 and the Blade

That should keep you busy until Ben can chime in - as i am sure he will when he gets a chance

Thanks for the info Matt, looking forward to Ben's take as well.

D

For sure like Matt said the blade has the best high wind control, i agree.
I always explain it to people that the blade has a more forward and lower pull and it has more downforce that keep your board more on the water , the S1 has a higher and more middle pull and this gives more lift and is more direct in feeling...
For me in person i will plane earlier with the S1 then with the blade maybe it is because i am only 65 kg but i think the S1 planes so quick because the sail has lots of tension in the foil what you can use to get up planning very fast.
The Swat is a bit in between and is a little softer in feel.
An example, when i was in tenerife on my 67 liter quad board i was heavily overpowered and my board was lifting way to much in the gusts sailing the 4.0 S1 2012 then i changed to a 4.0 blade 2012 and i was in full control... The blade also push your board more on the water in the turn, total control.
But i have to admit that i am a true S1 sailer, love this sail and they getting better and better every year even when you think that there is no more room for improvements they keep finding something that make it a better sail and in my eyes there is nothing else out there on the market that can compete with this sail (the only sail i think that is in the same level is a 5-oceans 4 batten custom sail).
Hope this helped a bit.
Grtz, Martin

Thanks Martin - thats a useful description (for me).

So for 85kg in very gusty, euro mixed conditions (from cross off mast high ground swell through to cross on knee high mush) the Blade sounds more appropriate, yeah?

Has anyone tried the new Freek? I've decided to change my 5.3 S1 but i'm not sure to buy 2013 S1 or 2013 freek. Both look great but for freestyle maybe the second would be better. Any suggestion?

Picked up the 5.3 and 4.7 S1 today, will have to wait until Sunday to try them, hopefully the wind cooperates. More wind during the week so should get a chance to give the 4.7 a go. Demoed the 5.3 last Saturday great improvement over the '11 model, which was a fantastic sail, this years is just sweeter.

Had a look at the '12 5.2 Swat in the shop and I am leaning towards the Swats, I think the softer feel might work better for me in the smaller sizes.....

D

Don't usually reply to topics but found this interesting.
The sails look awesome and as to if they work, or not, then the only real way to judge them, or anything , is to have a go on one.
Sails are defo stronger. Masts, no question stronger.
Also, read the performance specs vs the intended sailor / sailor / conditions. Every product has an intended market / user.
Same goes for boards. I cant comment on quads or twins. Never tried one.
I sail Thrusters, Stoneys. At the moment.....
But it's only the last couple of seasons where it seems these other concepts have been refined to the point that I would want to try one.

There's thrusters then there thrusters. There's quads the there's quads, if you know what I mean.
I tend to look at how well someone is sailing a board on the wave and then look to see if that sailor is similar to my height weight etc.
Also look at there approach to sailing. Surfing, always dropping to the bottom to drive to top and aerial or staying high going straight etc.etc.
Can't compare apples with oranges.

Select to expand quote

Relapse said...

Hi Ben,

Tried your new S1 in the 5.3m on the weekend and loved it. Pretty sold on getting a 5.3 and 4.7 for our summer sea breezes but struggling with deciding on which way to go with the 4.2 and 3.7.

Anything over 25 knots here in Melbourne (bay) tends to be gusty frontal weather and at those wind speeds its a 4.2 or 3.7 for me.

At 70kg, am I better with the softer SWATS for the gusty stronger winds? I tried last years SWAT in the 5.2m and really liked the feel of that as well.

Derek

Hi Derek - best option for strong, gusty winds is the Blade. All the small sails are built pretty soft, but the Blade has a lot more stability and wind range.
I'd definitely recommend a Blade for anyone wanting small sails for Melbourne.

Select to expand quote

LeonardoBB9 said...

Has anyone tried the new Freek? I've decided to change my 5.3 S1 but i'm not sure to buy 2013 S1 or 2013 freek. Both look great but for freestyle maybe the second would be better. Any suggestion?

The S-1 used to handle both the freestyle and the wave stuff, but the 013 S-1 is an all-out wave design. That's why we added the Freek.

The Freek is based on last year's S-1, but with a more tunable leech tension and more neutral body shaping to make it better for freestyle. Sounds like the Freek for you.

Now I am really confused, will have to demo a blade now. Thought at 70 kg either the S1 or SWAT were the ones, aren't a couple of lovely ladies in the PWA on SWATs? They would be pretty light.

Well, if you love to sail low and a little more forward puling sails then take the blade but if you are more a kind of guy that loves to sail sails that are more neutral and has a little less power than take the swat.
The swat 3.7 on the 340 mast is magic when you are a lightweight and it sails realy very soft if you rig it right.
The best sail with high wind control is the blade for sure but it is not everybody's taste, i know the blade is in nuke condition's the most controlable and probebly the best sail but i would choose the more neutral and softer feeling swat like the 3.7 on the 340 mast a hunderd times out of a hunderd.
It is hard to say what someone should buy because it will always be a bit personal.
I sail the swat in the smaller sizes and then go to the S1 and i have to admit that the S1 is a better sail, the on/off is a 100% and the sail is much faster , has more handeling and an effortless throw arround factor in compare to the swat but in the high winds it is all about survival in the first place so i personally take the swat then but that's more because i don't love more low and forward pulling sails like the blade but if you do then buy the blade because it will be the best sail in those conditions for sure...
So back to the question, if you are 70 kg or lighter then i would go for:
3.7-4.0, swat/blade
4.3 and bigger, S1 (and use from a 400 mast a redline... Really an upgrade)
(to keep it simple: S1=lift , Blade=downforce , Swat= inbetween)



My experiance and feeling is that from the 2012 S1 the S1 has more energy in the foil and it handles more loose leeche than the older models and they give more lift but i don't know if Ben also agree with me on this one?

Grtz, Martin

Select to expand quote

The S-1 used to handle both the freestyle and the wave stuff, but the 013 S-1 is an all-out wave design. That's why we added the Freek.

The Freek is based on last year's S-1, but with a more tunable leech tension and more neutral body shaping to make it better for freestyle. Sounds like the Freek for you.

Thank you, Ben. I love this forum
Severne sails for life!

Struggled with my '11 3.7 S1 today, I am on a 370 which probably doesn't help. Thanks for the in-depth breakdown Martin, the SWATs sound right for me. It was definitely survival sailing today for me today, solid 30 and gusting to 40 knots , could have done with power lower down and more softness.

Select to expand quote

Relapse said...

Now I am really confused, will have to demo a blade now. Thought at 70 kg either the S1 or SWAT were the ones, aren't a couple of lovely ladies in the PWA on SWATs? They would be pretty light.

Yeah, but the two ladies ahead of them are running Blades... The SWATs are good value, but it's not the top-end product that the Blade is.
Gusty conditions will feel a lot less gusty with a more stable sail.
I pretty much make the S-1 for me, but if I lived in Melbourne I'd choose a Blade for the smaller sizes for sure! When it's 4.7 / 5.0 weather I try a load of stunts - jumps, 360's etc. When it's 3.7 / 4.2 I do a lot less - it's more about control.

Sorry to confuse you though!
Your post mentioned gusty, frontal Melbourne conditions and that to me says Blade.

Select to expand quote

Ben Severne said...

Relapse said...

Now I am really confused, will have to demo a blade now. Thought at 70 kg either the S1 or SWAT were the ones, aren't a couple of lovely ladies in the PWA on SWATs? They would be pretty light.

Yeah, but the two ladies ahead of them are running Blades... The SWATs are good value, but it's not the top-end product that the Blade is.
Gusty conditions will feel a lot less gusty with a more stable sail.
I pretty much make the S-1 for me, but if I lived in Melbourne I'd choose a Blade for the smaller sizes for sure! When it's 4.7 / 5.0 weather I try a load of stunts - jumps, 360's etc. When it's 3.7 / 4.2 I do a lot less - it's more about control.

Sorry to confuse you though!
Your post mentioned gusty, frontal Melbourne conditions and that to me says Blade.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond Ben, quite a treat to get to ask the sails designer for recommendations.

I haven't tried one of the newer blades but will see what the shop has in the smaller sizes to try out.

I was stoked with the feel of the new 4 batten 5.3, which is why I was leaning towards the SWAT as they looked quite similar in design and promised a softer ride.

Am mainly a bay sailor and only a novice in the wave and well past getting into loops so am looking for a comfortable, predictable ride when the wind gets up and gusty. The last thing I needed today was more power or speed.

Cheers
Derek

Derek, if you struggle so much with your S1 3.7 rigged on your 370 mast and you didn't liked it at all then i think that the Swat on a 340 mast do not solve the problem for you, it is an easier and softer sail but not the mega draft steady downforce sail that the Blade is.
I think that the best way for you is then to go for the 2013 blade on a 340 mast.
Grtz, Martin

Select to expand quote

R1DER said...

Just picked up some 2013 blades today
4.7 and 5.3

...so can we see some rigged sail pics R1DER pls?
i think they are hitting euro shops sometime this mth

Are swats suitable for heavier weight sailors say 90kgs?