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Scotty Mac said...

Dan and others,
I have an idea thats better than the aussy titles thats been dead for years. Most states still currently run an event each year thats pretty successful. SA has the robe comp at easter (this years conditions may have been the best ever). NSW has merimbula and WA has lancelin. Have a national points system that at the end of the year the aussie title awarded by the comps combined. That way it encourages competitive people to go to multiple events, making the sport stronger. The events are more spread across the year which makes travelling more easy.
What do you think?

Good idea but, wouldnt work. The competition format of events like mambo wouldnt give a clear winner. You couldn't be a national champ through winning an expression session style event.

I'd agree with heading back to tassie. If SA cant organise the event then bring on marrawah, i'd even put my hand up to help organise another tassie nationals.

It's getting pretty late in the year to still not know where the nats will be held.

would be good to have a nats held in tas at back of lighthouse.

Go for it. Get another 20 people. Its hardly a national title if ou can't draw people from all states. Look outside the square. Afterall the last ten years have been pretty average events.......

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Scotty Mac said...

the last ten years have been pretty average events.......

scott, are you looking for discussion as to what makes a really good event.....wind and waves and money!

or pointing the finger at people who have given up months of their personal time to run these amateur titles with little or no funding. (neil pryde/jp have been generous with cash funding in the last couple of years)

running nats are all about wavesailors getting together from around the country and competing against each other in heats and being judged fairly by their fellow competitors.

the titles to my knowledge have always been a hit with competitors since the early eighties, don't put them down dude.

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Scotty Mac said...

Go for it. Get another 20 people. Its hardly a national title if ou can't draw people from all states. Look outside the square. Afterall the last ten years have been pretty average events.......

well being as Australia is huge it is hard for everyone to make it, what is your suggestion to get people from every state there, If people don't want to travel to an event then it's not the organizers fault, maybe the people who don't travel are just not motivated enough to compete.

I think the last Nats were pretty big.

do you not consider the PWA champ to be world champ because not EVERY nation is represented??

Don’t rip on last year’s nationals!!
All you could ask for! it was well publicized that it was on so don’t use that as an excuse for more people not being there, it was so well run, the conditions fired, there was a winner at the end of it, and most important it was so much fun! What else do you need??

If people don’t come from all states, then F*** them then they clearly don’t care about competing that bad!!

I think the idea of including all the comps of the season is the best idea yet!

If you used the lancelin wave comp, Easter robe comp, Melb Cup weekend at Sandy pt, a Tassie event and then maybe one of the NSW wave comps we have basically one in each state over the course of a season!

Then all you would need would be a website where you could have aggregate scores and info, and word up each of the organizers from each event to say we need a break down of results from 1st all the way back, and then set up a style of points system like motocross:
1st 25points
2nd 22 points
3rd 18 points
4th 17 points
5th 16 etc etc

Then you have a winner at the last comp, you will have a range of conditions and it will reward consistency and the people who put in the effort to travel to all events not just whinge because the nationals weren’t held in their state this year....

I think then you could truly call it an Australian Championship

Like the idea of a multi state nationals- its definitely the fair way to do it.

the only problem is that i dont know any of the contenders that have the time or money to travel interstate 5 times to mount a nationals campaign. It would be a minimum 5g investment (not including excess baggage) for the rider - maybe in the early 90s there was enough money in the sport for a talented rider to subsidise that cost with some prize money - but not now.

Personally I'd like to see the nationals float between 3 or 4 reliable performance wave spots- being held at ONE spot each year. - say Gerroa, Tas, Esperance and margs. There may be a good vic spot too - put that on the list.

Somwhere that rewards power and risk taking as well as throwing up good jump opportunities,

Sure its nice to share the nats around but holding nats at a dribbly wavespot with little wind is a price too high to pay for fairness.

I would rule out lanno because - although it is a fun and convenient spot - it would be selling out the national titles to hold it at such an intermediate spot. Its only really any good for the first and last hour of each day.

The downside of course is that you would then have to come up with the time and money to trravel to 6 interstate events over the course of the season. And considering its hard enough to get all the top sailors to the single national event unless it happens to be in their own back yard, how many would make it to all 6??
Just out of curiosity, scotty mac, would more would you be looking for out of the nationals if you have found them "pretty average", and which ones did you attend?

Hi all, I think the idea of a the nationals being shared around the country is a great one. It would truly give a fair result.
However I think that I would be very hard for quite a few wave sailors to attend all 5 or 6 events over the course of a season. Time and money are pretty key factors here!

On the other hand for those guys and girls that are committed, and I know there are quite a few, this event format is probably something that is very do-able!
Its not going to require much more organization, as these events are already running.
So maybe 5 events are maybe to much? Why not just chose 3 events a year. And change them up a bit year to year.

I don’t think we should rule this idea out yet, why don’t we see how much interest is out there.
Who would be willing to travel to 3 or more events over the course of a season?? I know I would..!

Yeah totally I think this is the way to go. 3 events would be sweet to go for a trial run this season and test the waters.

So where do we go from here?

Who makes these decisons!!!

It would probably count me out due to time and money (more the money side) realistically I cant see many people affording to do it.
As far as the results go, the richest person would win as hed be the only person getting points at all events, pretty dodgey result if that would be the case.
I like the current format with each state taking turns at running the event, man on man format and in varying conditions (tacks ect), as long as the chosen spot is a quality one.
What is it that people think can be done better at the events as they stand?

How about having the Nationals over 5 different state comps. But to eliminate some of the issues mentioned above, try adopting a formula to even up the series.
eg. 5 comps with each competitors top 3 results counting towards the final result. This way you only have to attend 3 events to have a chance, but if you attend more events then you can drop your worst performances.
Just a thought!

Muzza

I agree that no matter where the National Titles are held they should be in a place where the conditions are half mast with 15 knts cross off on a bad day. The idea of sharing the titles around states is nice - but not at the expense of travelling to sail slop. Its true that every place has its day - but we should choose a place that you can always find something over head high on crap days. The waves at this years nationals where really **** compared to what Tasmania normally gets. It was still a success because even **** swell here is good and the place is windy most of the time because it is located in the trade winds of Roaring Forties.

When I use to swim we held the titles at the Sleman Sports Complex in Brisbane every year because the facilities where world class. We didn't hold comps around the state just so everyone could have a go. Where ever the event is held it should be in the top 8 places in Australia. The destination should also have the possibility of offering cross off in 90% wind directions. Cross on should never happen.

An aggregate system for the National champion is a cool idea - but it is expensive - and for the amateur wave sailor probably a hard one to co-ordinate with work. Maybe 2 events could be done. I think each event should go 5-6 days.

If people want to hold it in Marrawah again - then I will put my hand up. It will be easire this time. Everything is done. I have $1300.00 sitting in the WT account for a wavesailing event and I know we can get another $3300.00 from Events Tasmania. I also have had an offer of a new prize from a wealthy entity down here who deals with professional surfing.

$4600.00 in the kitty for Tasmania!!!

Oh yeah - just to clarify we had 66 people at the Nationals in Marrawah that registered for the event. I had to monitor this for one of the Tas. grants. There where people from WA, NSW, QLD, VIC and TAS. I don't think anyone came from SA though.

Yes the multiple event format sounds nice, but I agree the cost would preclude a lot of sailors from attending. The main factor most sailors would really want is top conditions and reliability of getting better than average conditions. That really narrows down the options. I'm all for Tas again, unless SA or WA have a case to hold it. The fact that some funding seems to be already there saves a ****load of work. And the fact that the last ones at Marrawah had relatively average conditions but we still got awesome sailing and had fun says a lot.
cheers,
Andy

I'd be just as keen for Tassie as anywhere... including SA.
I'm just interested to know why I continually received emails saying the Nomadic event was put off because of conditions? Didn't it eventually get postponed until later in the year?

Tassie has to be the most bankable place Ive ever been to. Ive been 4 times now and sailed almost every day Ive been there, with descent swell too. And the best thig is that it goes off on both tacks as well, which is always a bonus for running a weeklong event. Ps thanks john for the work you put into the nationals this year, always appreciated. pps could you turn the wind down a touch next time would be much appreciated

Nomadic dosn't sail unless its over mast high with perfect cross of 25knts +. We could sail slop any weekend if we wanted to. But then we would have a gallery full of Sh#t photos to bore everyone with.

Gatherings also fall on a weekend out of four designated weeks. We don't call Nomadic every time we see a big swell and wind. During the Month of May I sailed 3 of the weekends with one of those being above mast high. It came out of nothing - I should have called it.

Just last weekend I sailed 4-5 meter swell in 35-45knt wind for 2 days. This weekend looks similar.

The fact is that Tasmania is smack bang in the roaring forties (600 years of wind trading can't be wrong can it?) West Tas also has the worlds longest body of open water bordering its western coast line which means big waves.

There is a couple of famous surfers here at the moment who are doing a Tow-in film. I can't say any more until its finished.

I think choosing Mast high plus Back of Light House for something like the nationals would be harsh on a lot of competitors.

"pps could you turn the wind down a touch next time would be much appreciated"

Haha - yeah that last day was nuts! [}:)]

Some interesting points made here and all valid.

However, I agree with someone that said having a multi round nationals could end up being won by he with the most money and most leisure time, I know I could afford to get there, but doubt I would be very popular at work or at home taking the time needed to compete at this sort of event.

Also, while it is excellent to see sailors excel in the best conditions possible, continually holding the event at one place or one style of wave etc would also make for a bit of a false champion, after all both the PWA and ASP are decided across breaks all over the world. Now I know this isn't really comparing apples with apples cause they do many events in one year, giving weight to the multi round idea. But they don't get their champions from just the perfect places, and they expect the best to make even slop look good.

I have only been to one Nationals so wont comment on how they are run now as I don't have a wealth of experience to go off, but as with anything, if the time is put in with organising the event it will be a hit.

Yeah that's true but all places with perfect cross off conditions have cross on slop just around the point though. We could run heats in both? The ocean is 99% cross on slop!

WT will probably slap me for this...... but I will see if I can put the $1300.00 up for sponsorship from WT if it goes to Gnaraloo or Margerette River!

I agree john, WT will slap ya for that onehaha

Dan Berry,
Just to answer your question about which nationals I have been in, Margrets, Torquay, Robe and Tassy.
Regards,
Scotty

and what should have been done better in you view, was it the conditions or the organisation/ running of the event?

Well the conditions cannot be controlled. The events were sometimes ran like the organisers thought it was the ASP tour or the us golf open. Rules were made by organisors which were too serious and technical for such a small sport. Also I experienced a couple of big names that totally spat it when they lost that was pretty un-sportsman like. Also people like Mark Paul that used to walk around like the world owed them something. So to sum it up, no name competitors treated like second class citizens and the champs like movie stars. No wonder it's declined. The successful windsurfing events like merimbula and robe easter have survived because they are fun for all. Who cares if they are freeride events. Winners should be the sailors that are sailing the best on the day or for the event. If its man on man or freeride who cares as long as the best win. My experience with man on man is that is its just as subjective as free ride. So why not have fun events that more people turn up to. And start treating all competitors as important.

Fun ... you should have come to this years ... we had 3 band nights, a spit roast night, open bond fires with free booze and ....., a pingpong championship....more booze... bad hangovers.... I can't remember that much more.... it was a good week anyway. Everyone relaxed in the mornings while Hudson, Pete and others made the event actually happen.

As for the stars being up themselves.... I said hello to most people!
Seriously though ..... Levi was just like everyone else.

It really was a great time.....I hope this years has the same vibe where ever it ends up.

So, just to recap....

Blah, Blah, Blah....

Where are the nationals being held? and When?

hey Pottssy, are you originally from Bowen ???

to get ppl from each state is there any reason why each state doesnt have selection trial inbuilt into some events to determine some funding for travel.
i know i've gone and jumped through hoops b4 in the yachting world to get funding. wouldnt have to be much but a few hundred towards flights never goes astray.

Hey Richiefish - yes I grew up in Bowen and then moved to Manly for a year to do year 12! ????