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sboardcrazy said..
If you really need more let it off so the sail touches to the back harness line position under load.. Now we need some wind so I can try it..

Yes, this is how it is done on Formula, slalom sails and free-race sails (like the overdrive from severne). There is an optimum downhaul setting that is always set the same independent on the wind strength. You then use the outhaul to adjust for desired power, while sailing, not the downhaul. On Formula sails, going deep downwind, the sail can even touch forward of the harness lines, while for slalom and free-race, touching the boom up to the leward harness lines are usually a very nice and powerful setting.

Looking at your pictures, I would say that you have the harness lines to far apart. Set them to about a hands width and you'll feel the rig much better. This will also help to get the right attitude of the sail, i.e. keeping the mast upright and letting the the foot of the sail touch the deck of the board. It is not so much about "closing the gap" as is it is about getting the right (as designed) attitude of the sail.

People will disagree with all the tuning being done with the outhaul.
Popcorn

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Imax1 said..
People will disagree with all the tuning being done with the outhaul.
Popcorn

Wave sails are different....

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SurferKris said..

sboardcrazy said..
If you really need more let it off so the sail touches to the back harness line position under load.. Now we need some wind so I can try it..

Yes, this is how it is done on Formula, slalom sails and free-race sails (like the overdrive from severne). There is an optimum downhaul setting that is always set the same independent on the wind strength. You then use the outhaul to adjust for desired power, while sailing, not the downhaul. On Formula sails, going deep downwind, the sail can even touch forward of the harness lines, while for slalom and free-race, touching the boom up to the leward harness lines are usually a very nice and powerful setting.

Looking at your pictures, I would say that you have the harness lines to far apart. Set them to about a hands width and you'll feel the rig much better. This will also help to get the right attitude of the sail, i.e. keeping the mast upright and letting the the foot of the sail touch the deck of the board. It is not so much about "closing the gap" as is it is about getting the right (as designed) attitude of the sail.

Thanks.
I know my harness line setting is old school and different to most people's and I know all the theory but it suits me.
I forgot to mention he said that the sail is really a 15kt plus sail ( which I knew). Unfortunately with my lightweight , and our crappy wind, I'm using it in lighter conditions than that.

its ok Sue ,this guy, Spotty held the record for a while check his lines .47,58 knots .

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sboardcrazy said..

Imax1 said..
Try a bit less downhaul. Looking at the second last pic of the rigged sail it seems you're close to max downhaul. The crease in the second top panel is three quarters to the mast and the floppy leech looks like it's set for max twist. I'd back it off to halfway for max grunt. Adjust outhaul so the sail just touches the boom. I know on my sails it makes a big difference in grunt if I back off a bit of downhaul. Trade off is speed , but if using for light wind ......
It's worth a try.
ps, sexy looking sail.
pps, I never rig to numbers , they are often out. I always rig to that top crease .

Might give less downhaul a go . I know my light wind rigging isn't very good. I just set to specs and use the adjustable outhaul. I can't downhaul more out on the water
I think I'll stick to the turbo at this time of year when the wind is marginal.

Less DH makes the sail feel heavy (NP sails) while correct DH allows the sail to act as it was designed. I usually set DH the same everytime and adjust OH & clew hole. If it's really strong wind I'll DH a little more but too much kills the sail power too much. Sorry about the vague comments, LOL

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SurferKris said..

Imax1 said..
People will disagree with all the tuning being done with the outhaul.
Popcorn

Wave sails are different....

Severne wave sails aren't different. downhaul is set and forget too. Outhaul for tuning. Typically if they are under downhauled you get rotation issues. I'm fairly sure severne sails are designed to be tuned with the outhaul as it makes it easier to make trim adjust on the water or beach.

each brand has its own mojo so what works for one won't for another. Simmer for example reacts to downhaul more.

I find with my sails ,( NP, V8 and race sails ),if I'm overpowered, outhauling and flattening makes the sail twitchy. The centre of effort moves around. Im never comfortable in the harness lines.Extra downhaul works a treat. Its kinda the same in reverse for border line planing conditions. If I bag out too much outhaul to get enough power , I struggle to stay upwind. I'd rather a tighter leech and go slower with a heavier feeling sail and be planing and staying upwind . That's just heavy me.

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Gestalt said..

SurferKris said..

Imax1 said..
People will disagree with all the tuning being done with the outhaul.
Popcorn

Wave sails are different....

Severne wave sails aren't different. downhaul is set and forget too. Outhaul for tuning. Typically if they are under downhauled you get rotation issues. I'm fairly sure severne sails are designed to be tuned with the outhaul as it makes it easier to make trim adjust on the water or beach.

each brand has its own mojo so what works for one won't for another. Simmer for example reacts to downhaul more.

So what is it exactly that you are trying to say here?

How does the tuning of a Simmer wave sail help with the tuning of a Severne free-race sail?

Ps,
If sails are not meant to be adjusted with downhaul, then why do some sails have max an minimum marks on the top of the sail ?

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Imax1 said..
Ps,
If sails are not meant to be adjusted with downhaul, then why do some sails have max an minimum marks on the top of the sail ?

It depends on the brand as to how downhaul and outhaul react to each other.

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SurferKris said..

Gestalt said..

SurferKris said..

Imax1 said..
People will disagree with all the tuning being done with the outhaul.
Popcorn

Wave sails are different....

Severne wave sails aren't different. downhaul is set and forget too. Outhaul for tuning. Typically if they are under downhauled you get rotation issues. I'm fairly sure severne sails are designed to be tuned with the outhaul as it makes it easier to make trim adjust on the water or beach.

each brand has its own mojo so what works for one won't for another. Simmer for example reacts to downhaul more.

So what is it exactly that you are trying to say here?

How does the tuning of a Simmer wave sail help with the tuning of a Severne free-race sail?

It depends on the brand as to how downhaul and outhaul react to each other. I provided examples of 2 brands that react differently. Blanket statements like wave sails are different and slalom and formula sails are all rigged the same aren't helpful because it isn't the case. Probably why people struggle to rig sails

Severne have explained how to rig the sail and what happens with different downhaul. From my experience with their sails that's spot on. No surprise they know best. Of course it doesn't then apply that free ride sails from other brands are the same.

Just to add while I sip my coffee .

I've got a 3 batten wave sail. It doesn.t really go loose at the head. Still everytime I rig it up people say. Oh that needs more downhaul

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Tardy said..
its ok Sue ,this guy, Spotty held the record for a while check his lines .47,58 knots .

Yep Daffy ( Sailquick) also has lines set like mine..

Hi Al, have you had a chance to use the 8.4 yet? Or get out and get a more informed feel for the other sizes? How does the big sail feel on an RDM?

I currently have 2021 Turbo 8.1 and 6.5 and was considering replacing them with Motos like 8.4 & 6.8 or 7.8 & 6.4. Not sure if it would provide much more than I have already but who doesn't love the thought of getting new gear

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NWF said..
Just received my SV Moto's last week in the UK!

Previously owned Reflex, Overdrive, Turbo and NCX

Yes, I read all the hype and was slightly concerned as I loved my Overdrives, and while the Turbo was light and punchy in the hands, It lacked the overpowered credentials I look for, so I was a little sceptical.

Anyway, so far I've used the 5.2 and 5.8 Moto in the latest storms on Futura 93 and Fox 105 and while I do not have any GPS speeds

I have to admit, I am very impressed so far sailing alongside other cambered sails at Portland Harbour Weymouth. The rig profile is clean, and sets like a race sail, but unbelievably light, stable and certainly fast for a twin cam.

It is just plug and play and has very assessable performance for sure. I am now looking forward to getting out on my 6.8 and 8.4 in due course with ISonic 73.

Cheers
Al

Anyone Keen to share some longer term reviews of the moto. How are people finding them? Any further comparisons from those that came from overdrives or ncx?

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MHSA said..
Anyone Keen to share some longer term reviews of the moto. How are people finding them? Any further comparisons from those that came from overdrives or ncx?

MHSA, I've had the 5.8 and 6.8 out for a few months. I now rig the downhaul to the recommended setting as it looks awful and untaught around the boom cutout section otherwise. I think the biggest difference I noticed vs NCX was the forward propulsion in a gust and a hint more low end (torque) performance. It's pretty had to be scientific about speeds when every session is different. I've never uphauled but waterstarting is OK but obviously much slower with a luff full of water. Sometimes I think there's some drag around the open boom cutout but I'm sure they've tested this. I think all would agree if there's any question about your gybe ability go NCX. Cheers Rich.
***I have just bought a WIDER 180-230 boom. How much negative outhaul do you think I can get away with to increase bottom end?***

sboardcrazy, I'd agree, harness line spacing is a personal preference and I'm buggered if I can make narrow spacing work for me, so I stick to what I'm comfortable with. I've read on another thread that narrow spacing may be associated with increased stress on booms and someone snapped a carbon boom on the clew side of the harness lines just sailing along at the Cervantes slalom on Saturday with a narrow spacing so who knows if this was the reason?

I've got a complete set of Turbo/Moto sails from 4.8 to 7.8m (just picked up the 2025 model 4.8 and 5.8 today!) and I can't say I notice a huge difference in how they sail. In fact my favourite sail is the 5.5 Turbo which will handle 25-30knots+. Both the turbo and Moto are fantastic to use, rotate and waterstart. I follow the DH settings but add 2cm to the extension setting to leave some room for a bit more downhaul if needed. I'd never run less DH than factory. The sails seem to like a bit more outhaul than factory settings and these would be considered their maximum setting.

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sboardcrazy said..

SurferKris said..

sboardcrazy said..
If you really need more let it off so the sail touches to the back harness line position under load.. Now we need some wind so I can try it..

Yes, this is how it is done on Formula, slalom sails and free-race sails (like the overdrive from severne). There is an optimum downhaul setting that is always set the same independent on the wind strength. You then use the outhaul to adjust for desired power, while sailing, not the downhaul. On Formula sails, going deep downwind, the sail can even touch forward of the harness lines, while for slalom and free-race, touching the boom up to the leward harness lines are usually a very nice and powerful setting.

Looking at your pictures, I would say that you have the harness lines to far apart. Set them to about a hands width and you'll feel the rig much better. This will also help to get the right attitude of the sail, i.e. keeping the mast upright and letting the the foot of the sail touch the deck of the board. It is not so much about "closing the gap" as is it is about getting the right (as designed) attitude of the sail.

Thanks.
I know my harness line setting is old school and different to most people's and I know all the theory but it suits me.
I forgot to mention he said that the sail is really a 15kt plus sail ( which I knew). Unfortunately with my lightweight , and our crappy wind, I'm using it in lighter conditions than that.

I was old school until last year when by accident really they ended up about 5 inches apart and every thing suddenly felt better. Give it a go.

Hello - may I ask - the sales pitch is that the Moto has the best qualities of the Turbo and the OD. Has experience on the water shown this ? The sense I get from forums is that it is more Turbo than OD and theres not alot of outpouring of love from any long time Severne users. I have a 8,1 Turbo and a 7,0 OD and enjoy each of their particular characters. The OD is just a touch short for my usual conditions So now I am looking at a 7,8 Moto to replace them both. Will I get the best of both worlds (light with good range) or just a compromise that falls short of both and end up wishing I had not traded them in ?

Please mention which generation of Turbo you refer to when sharing experiences. I don't have experience with OD or older turbo generations, but have read that the m4 (introduced in 2021?) is more like OD than it is like previous generations Turbo. I got a Turbo m4 7.5. On my first use, I was surprised of its speed and ability to work well in strong wind, but also how much downhaul it needed to rotate well. To me, that sounds like a different sail than the older Turbo gen's.

Its a Turbo 2022, indeed the old Severne webpage says it had been made faster with better high end. I like it, but not as much as the Overdrive which suits my easy ride spot (flat and shallow with constant wind). So if the Moto is another step closer to the OD, then thats a good exchange deal. But if I wont notice the difference between my Turbo and new Moto but will feel a big difference between Moto and OD, I risk regret. Trying before buying is not an option, hence appreciate any views.

Keep your old sails until you've tried the new one. It is not worth selling anything until you have found an adequate replacement.

The OD 7.0 together with a MOTO 7.8 might make for a nice quiver, depending on what boards you have.

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Jasonwave said..
Hello - may I ask - the sales pitch is that the Moto has the best qualities of the Turbo and the OD. Has experience on the water shown this ? The sense I get from forums is that it is more Turbo than OD and theres not alot of outpouring of love from any long time Severne users. I have a 8,1 Turbo and a 7,0 OD and enjoy each of their particular characters. The OD is just a touch short for my usual conditions So now I am looking at a 7,8 Moto to replace them both. Will I get the best of both worlds (light with good range) or just a compromise that falls short of both and end up wishing I had not traded them in ?

Long time Severne user here and I haven't heard any great reports regarding the MOTO where I sail and agree its basically a Turbo with an anemic open luff pocket, a bit of a waste of time IMHO. I think Severne has missed the mark producing two 2 cams, I get what they are trying to do, but I think the logic is flawed. Upgrade your 8.1 Turbo for a second hand 7.8M4 Overdrive and sail till it falls apart, or your SDM mast (if you have one) breaks. Keep your 7m OD as well as the 7.8 has a flexible range. Upon breaking my Apex Blue 430cm, I changed to a 430 Blue RDM, my 6.2/7m M3 Overdrives sail much better with the RDM, Still have sdm 460 for my 7.8M4 Overdrive. I'm 90K kgs for ref...

Has anybody sailed both the 2024 and 2025 models? Interested to know if there's much difference.

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sboardcrazy said..
If you really need more let it off so the sail touches to the back harness line position under load.. Now we need some wind so I can try it..

That advise is for when the harness lines are set to about one hands-width apart. In your case this means that the sail can touch the boom all the way up to about halfway in-between your (very) widely spread harness lines. And do give that a try, it makes a large difference in marginal and unstable winds.

I don't own Motos but use Mach 8s. I have though used Motos a few times and I can only say that they are an excellent easy to use sail that don't give much away in speed and comfort. My local users are all of the same opinion. Not sure where the haters are coming from but there are a great easy to use sail, so much so I considered switching over but the Mach 8 where such an improvement on the Mach 6s I couldn't help myself......Those improvements are reflected in the Motos.

On the Defi Youtube channel, is this a new sail in the range? didn't really get a good look at it. 25.04 ?si=YRtCyXmt43Vfs6ET

Think you're just looking at the alternative colourway for the ncx? (see the letters at the foot of the sail in your pic above)
there's an all red and a black/red version.

Yeah looks like the latest NCX. I have the 5m and its a fantastic sail.