(ah, the never ending question )
.
the modern answer seems to be foiling
for now it seems too new and too expensive in windsurfing
buddy kite foils with a 20 meter kite in next to no wind
when he does that , only he and I are on the water
i will be out with a Mistral Equipe 2 XR carbon and either an 8.x (8.4 race or 8.5 SPF) or 10 meter sail
.
also have a JP SLW92 which I use in light winds, but not in 10 knots
i am after all over 100 kilos
at 85 kilos with an 11 meter sail you should be able to plane in about 10 knots
www.07techno.com/windsurfing_calculator/
is it worth the investment ??
(also does NOT schlogg well and BIG sail is HEAVY when wind drops - less FUN)
.
could you find an old longboard like mine and use it with your Ezzy 8.5 ??
.
in around 2012 I wrote a post on early planing - in light, light winds
guess I need to update it now ...
joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2012/03/early-planing.html

i go out in light, light winds when there is NO ONE - for the adventure and exercise



but as you stated, in more wind, it is MORE fun !!
same board with the HSM SPF 8.5 in more wind ...
and STILL no one on the water!!
(well almost - see a kite in the background)

Joe Windsurf:
Yep! Chasing more planing time! There's a used Mistral Equip II for sale in my area for $1,000 USD. It probably would be a good choice to move around when no one is around, but I think in that case I prefer drinking a beer and watch a game. ...Speed is my medicine!

Foiling is a cool idea and I'd probably go learn it on some rental gear somewhere before risking to wreck +$4,000 USD worth of my own equipment. I'm also looking for this to become affordable! So that's a plan for a more distant future. But thanks for sharing the gear calculator, your vids and your perspective.

Magic Ride:
i can get the SB 124 l + Lion3 8.5 planing in 13 knots and get it going through 11 knots lulls I'd say, but no less. Anytime I'm on the water in 12-13 knots, I could get a couple of good runs and the rest of the time i would schlogg around chasing that puff of air because the wind is fluky in my area. What doesn't help is that I'm a lazy sailor: I pump only when I'm desperate! Even with a 48cm fin, I found that the SB Atom 124 is "sticking" and is taking time and effort to release... would a SLW present similar symptoms?
With the 100 l this is no longer an issue as I don't take it out in less than 17-18 knots. Maybe I should just try it with a 7.5 and a 38cm fin to see what that does... Could I get it to go in 12-13 kt? No matter what, that's probably my limit for waterstart a 7.5 and I cannot see uphauling that sail on a 100 l.

I was reading in this forum a few posts talking about how much a SLW board was a revelation for some sailors and dramatically increased the number of occasions they had to spend with a smile on the water. That's what attracted me to the idea of a modern Lightwind board. I'm lucky to live and work 12 min away from my launch, but days in sub-13 knots are quite frequent, whereas +15 knots days when i am available are no so.

Cheers!

The new ultra light Patrik hollow boards are your best bet if money is no object.

Had a go of the 130 litre,80.5 cm wide board with a 7.5m and 47 fin. Felt really good and the sound is really nice.

It will get you going earlier than any other board due to its reduced weight. Approx one to one and a half kilo lighter.

The new Simmer race sails are light too. An 8.6m should be best. There's a 140 litre as well

Would be curious to know what the wind minimums are for Cluffy on his JL SLW !!

forceten said..
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"

you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.

11kts is 12.6 mph.
you would need the most specialist light wind board, and as suggested a race type sail with 99 cams to approach your 11kts.

But Magic said he can get going with a 6.8 and 115L board in 11 knots. He's 85 kg.

forceten said..
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"

you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.

@forceten: Good catch on the weight. Thx for being this honest!

Noticed this topic has obviously been discussed many times...

2 options to lower my planing threshold:
A - Get more out of my 124 l /8.5 kit by better rigging/tuning, and improving on my skills and efficiency on the water
B - Get a more powerful engine (sail) and an "accessible" board to support it

100 l >17 kn,
124 l in 14-18 kn,
SLW for most days between 11-15 kn on flat water.

85kg/187lb for 187cm/6'2". Following most gear calculators, this means I need a 11.5 in 10 kn. I don't want to handle this big and a 10.0 seems to be a handful already. (So, here is how to lower one's expectation!)

Finally, I mentioned "at reasonable cost" in the context of race boards, formula boards and foil kits, all in the $3,500-$4,000 USD range, and race sails that can go well above $1,500.
(Thx PeterMac33 for the tip on the Simmer, and Dean for sail size reco).

Here is a viable scenario (in USD, including discounts):
Fanatic SLW: $1800,
MauiSails TR2016 10.0: $650,
NorthSail gold boom 190-250: $470
MauiSail 520 SDM carbon mast: $550
board bag: $150
total: <$3650. Not cheap, but I can male it a lot worse with the addition of a trailer to carry all that stuff around...

jirvin4505 said..
Cost??
If you already have Ezzy 8.5 than you have mast suitable for Ezzy 9.5? How big is your boom

my feeling is get a early planing board first. Yes a Jpslw however you may be able to pick up a large slalom board on secondhand market or even a older early shape formula board

with an early planing board you can try out the 8.5 ezzy

i see experienced sailers getting away on large slalom boards quicker than I can get going at 100kg on a wood jpslw92

at 85kg the large slalom boards or older style formula boards are a possibility especially if you have active sailing style

cheers Jeff

^^^

you can pickup a large slalom board a few years old relatively cheap and then find yourself a grunty sail. With some pumping technique a 80cm wide + slalom board and 8.5m sail should work.

I use a 76cm wide board with an 8m sail and I can pump it on the plane in around 12 knots and keep it going in smaller lulls with an adjustable outhaul, I'm around 80kg.

I use a 8m hot sails Maui GPS sail 2012 (224 boom) its has good bottom end and the sail breathes nicely so good for pumping. You should be able to pickup a used one for around $200. They can also run a skinny mast which makes them smoother in chop.

MrCranky said..

forceten said..
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"

you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.

11kts is 12.6 mph.
you would need the most specialist light wind board, and as suggested a race type sail with 99 cams to approach your 11kts.

But Magic said he can get going with a 6.8 and 115L board in 11 knots. He's 85 kg.

I wrote I find some of the answers unrealistic. My weight is less, my 117MOO Custom is awesome , a 7.5 Cheetah, I need closer to 15mph, then on and off the plane. One of the better boards for early planing I have ridden was a Exocet model, can't rember its name.

The subject of early planing involves the wind speed, which can vary on the water offshore , the estimate of it, and the sailers version of planing.
the level of expertise enters the equation, which is Part of the equation, and open for interpretation.


planing on a 115 and 6.8 must involve a expert , much better than me, better technique, or parts of the equation are wrong.

Formula 175
Formula 117
Tabou Rocket 135. Sails were 8.5 Lion, 7.5 Cheetah and now a Custom 7.0, very light weight.
MOO Custom 117
Starship 100

the newer wide thin boards are a reasonable option, they don't work on really large sails for me, over 7.5.
my taste is not for those boards , having time on quite a few.

Magic Ride said..
The Starships are very unusual how early they plane. They look like they need a lot more wind than they really do. They are not thinned out boards like most modern boards today. Most of the volume is stuffed in the middle, in front of the mast track and under the front footstraps, which is perfect for planning early.

Eddy at "BigWinds" did a whole write up on the 100L Starship review at Hood River. He took it out as he saw most others were on 130L boards, and couldn't believe how it did. The Starship he said, "kept right up with the others". I will try to post the link, but it's easy to find. Google, Starship 100L review and the link should come up. The 115L Starship gets out planning even earlier as mentioned above.

I'd like to believe you, I really do, but I don't. 11 knots is seriously not much wind at all. I think you underestimated how much it was blowing.

MrCranky .


I'd like to believe you, I really do, but I don't. 11 knots is seriously not much wind at all. I think you underestimated how much it was blowing.

If you factor 11-12 knots with gusts added to it, that's how it's done. I get planning on the gusts and manage to keep the plane through the 11-12 knot wind range. When the gust drops off, I fall off the wind slightly and give her a few pumps, and I can usually keep it planning. As we all know, the wind is never a consistent 11-12 knots, there are always gusts factored in.

In 10-12 knot winds,short of using a formula board with a 10 metre sail only lightweights ( under 75kg) will get going consistently.

A formula board will kill a large slalom board upwind especially - but I'm not that convinced they actually plane any earlier than a large slalom board especially for lightweights.

I have found in light wind that when I use a sail above 7.5m the improvement in planing threshold is small,though I weigh only 70kg.

My 7.5 gets going around a knot or two earlier than my 7m but when I've owned a 8.6m the improvement in planing threshold is hard to detect,perhaps half a knot or so.

In sub planing conditions i use much less downhaul and outhaul and use a fin around 4-6 cm bigger than recommended. G10 fins flex in sizes above 40cm too much,dumping the power.

A really light boom and mast helps too. Adjustable outhaul is a no,no for me!

With my 71 cm wide Manta / 7.5 with a 44 Sonntag fin I get going in around 11-12 knots but only if I rig the sail full. With standard downhaul twisted off lots,around 13-14 knots.

In wind 8-12 knots better take up hydrofoil kitesurfing. They amaze me in light conditions.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the ultrasonic yet. It is fantastic board, planes faster than (nearly) any other board (except from a formula by a small margin) and is very fun and easy to control (and even progress on) at least with my 8.6 overdrive (I weigh 75kg). And when the wind picks up you won't get overpowered before the 20 knot mark. This combo is the one I use 70-80% of the season (the other 20-30% being an isonic 107 + ncx 7.0 at 18+ knots). The ultrasonic would be the board I carry with me all the time if I had to keep only one (in fact I did so for several seasons).

Regards

MrCranky said..

Magic Ride said..
The Starships are very unusual how early they plane. They look like they need a lot more wind than they really do. They are not thinned out boards like most modern boards today. Most of the volume is stuffed in the middle, in front of the mast track and under the front footstraps, which is perfect for planning early.

Eddy at "BigWinds" did a whole write up on the 100L Starship review at Hood River. He took it out as he saw most others were on 130L boards, and couldn't believe how it did. The Starship he said, "kept right up with the others". I will try to post the link, but it's easy to find. Google, Starship 100L review and the link should come up. The 115L Starship gets out planning even earlier as mentioned above.

I'd like to believe you, I really do, but I don't. 11 knots is seriously not much wind at all. I think you underestimated how much it was blowing.

I would also like to believe you. The original post refers to 10-11kts, Magic Ride, you have increased this to 11--12, from 10 to 12 is a increase of 20% wind speed. We understand gusts are involved, the wind also decreases in lulls , so the figure then could be 8-10, realistic planing , not in my world. An gust increase over 12 starts being promising

some interesting discussion , I find little difference in a 7.5 to 8.5 .

Maybe the 10-11 knot wind range should be 10-15 knot wind range. That's how the 10-11 would fit in the wind forecast here. This seems more reasonable on how meteorologists forecast wind. We all know that the wind is never going to be just 10-11. It's going to have a 12 and a 13 in their and a 9 and an 8 probably too as a lull, and a gust would bring it to 14-16 realistically. At least that's how it works in the USA. It's either light and variable, 5-10, 10-15, 10-20, 15-25 etc. The original wind range listed above would fit under the 10-15 knot chart in the USA. I would think this would be the same in other countries as well. Now perhaps where FrenchToast lives, the wind will consistently stay at a 10-11 knots with some gusts and lulls. But that won't happen in the USA. A 10-11 knot day here would realistically be a 10-15 knot day with gusts and lulls in the equation.

Do any of you guys have the 115L Naish Starship model who would like to elaborate on its early planning? And how early you can get planning?