So. with Luderitz on at the moment and a couple of Windsurfing TV videos talking to sailors doing up to 46kts at la Palme in France recently, I can't help but be intrigued by how heavy the top speed sailors are. (A few exceptions- Eg Daffy) It appears at the max end, they weigh around 110 kg and carry up to 20 kg in a weight jacket for an all-up weight of 130 kg. Being a scrawny 73 kg and still searching for my personal-best, I have again turned to using a weight jacket to help me hold onto the biggest sail possible and to help keep the board on the water. Apart from the initial forearm strain when water starting, I have been getting used to it by wearing a 5 kg jacket (wet) for all my general sailing. My 'heavy' jacket is 9.6kg wet, and yes, it has added buoyancy, so it floats. This jacket is only dragged out if it's looking to be over 25kts and flat conditions. I am guessing the extra nearly 10kg of weight up high on my body would now give me the leverage of a near 90kg sailor. Am interested to hear what weight others use and ideas and opinions as to this path I am trying. Cheers.
(Sorry If this topic has already been covered, but I'm a bit bored at the moment. )

I'm bored at the moment too Mikey I'm 100kg and never worn a weight jacket so can't help you with first hand experience but, I saw a youtube video recently but can't find it again where I think it was Ben Proffit speaking to Twan Verseput about weights and weight jackets, from memory proffit is around 80kg and Twan something like 105 at 6'6 ish? The take away from it was that contrary to what most sailors think the real benefit of weight is smoothing the lulls/gusts, not being able to hold on to bigger sails or hold boards on the water. Interesting thought. Apparently, Luderitz has quite a soft spot 2/3rds the way down and this is where the bigger guys stand out.

Big wind coming for the Pit on Monday Mikey. Could be a test Pb day for you ?
For me (86kg) 10 was the most I ever carried and it just wore me out quicker. Less runs, less chances of getting a great gust at the right time and more practice at putting together that perfect run. But I do find 4-6 kg in gusty conditions helps stabilise my upper body and getting a better full noise run.

Have heard the extra weight does add to the board's overall momentum so helps to keep things moving through the lulls. I like that the board is less bouncy through any chop and when a gust hits the sail, I am not lifted as sharply.

Basically what every one else has said. The extra weight smooths things out in the lulls and gusts. The extra weight gives you extra momentum through lulls, and stops you getting out of shape when hit by gusts.

Unless it's super gusty, 5kg to 10kg is fine for most speed locations regardless of riders weight. I heard Luderitz is the exception, and riders carry more weight because the course isn't constant wind, plus you get a ride back up wind. Sailing back up wind all day with 20kg would bloody tiring.

Well.. That was a popular subject.

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mikey100 said..
Well.. That was a popular subject.

Actually, it Is quite and interesting subject Mikey! I read it this morning but had so many thoughts about it I needed to think about it a bit more to sort it out.

Not so sure about the 'Momentum' bit, but pretty much everything else you said is what I would have said.

One other aspect is that suddenly throwing 8-10Kg of weight on your chest and back, changes your balance quite significantly. To compensate, I found I had to work my arm and core muscles a lot harder, and it wore me out in half the time, even when I was a lot younger and fitter. From that aspect, it's wise to wear some weights in lighter wind practice to get used to it, and work your way up to heavier weights as you adapt, and you core training in the Gym progresses.

Luderitz was indeed a different thing as there is no sailing or walking back upwind. Those two things are remarkably more energy sapping with weight on.

My last thought is that, yes, you can gain some stability and power, and may add a Knot or two to your speed if you get the right gust, but the big guys can do exactly the same thing (and do!) so you end up just as far behind them, just at slightly faster speeds.

For me, these days, it's just not worth putting my body and back at risk, and better for me to just try and do a few more runs to catch a better gust. YMMV

Definitely the weight vests help in nuking conditions, but what you have been watching overseas 40+knots we get once a year or even decade. So our regular conditions for wearing the vest are you either going to rig a size bigger or hold onto same sail much longer as wind picks up? Fine when you are going in a straight line but gybes & energy will suffer. Those overseas spots get driven or can at least walk back. If you are going to do this regularly aren't you going down a path you've already been down?

In this series Heidi & Kirsten talk about vests, harnesses etc...


Maybe try getting in touch with Eric Beale after he's done with Luderitz, might give you some clues as to what he's using in hawaii which is alot closer conditions to ours.

& as a big guy in chop yeah can smack down that rogue bit but big guys also sink down further with each drop into trough more rather than skip over top plus have to deal with using a bigger board unless there's really good wind. Though it is better with newer boards that feel like they're riding a little smaller & let you fly the board a bit easier. I think big guys more consistently tend to hold the rig more steady.

I am continually drawn back to this article.
boards.co.uk/how-to/how-fast-can-we-go-the-science-of-speed.html
It states as a rough guide. 100N force (app 10kg of extra weight) equates to an extra 2kts.

I'm 90kgs and 2m tall, if conditions get crazy I just fill my camel back up with 2 litres of water and it gives me loads more control.

What are you aiming to achieve Mike? Aiming to hit a personal goals or just trying match bigger guys who aren't wearing weight?

I'd just be concerned you are wearing out your body on relatively ordinary days/locations, back injury from extra load & you're pretty much done, certainly never 100%

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mkseven said..
What are you aiming to achieve Mike? Aiming to hit a personal goals or just trying match bigger guys who aren't wearing weight?

I'd just be concerned you are wearing out your body on relatively ordinary days/locations, back injury from extra load & you're pretty much done, certainly never 100%

As stated above. personal goals. Could never match it with 100kg+ guys in strong winds. As to wearing out. I do a lot of gym work to prepare my body and I only sail on flat or flattish water if it is 20kts+. I am very measured in what I do.

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mkseven said..
Definitely the weight vests help in nuking conditions, but what you have been watching overseas 40+knots we get once a year or even decade. So our regular conditions for wearing the vest are you either going to rig a size bigger or hold onto same sail much longer as wind picks up? Fine when you are going in a straight line but gybes & energy will suffer. Those overseas spots get driven or can at least walk back. If you are going to do this regularly aren't you going down a path you've already been down?

In this series Heidi & Kirsten talk about vests, harnesses etc...

Maybe try getting in touch with Eric Beale after he's done with Luderitz, might give you some clues as to what he's using in hawaii which is alot closer conditions to ours.

& as a big guy in chop yeah can smack down that rogue bit but big guys also sink down further with each drop into trough more rather than skip over top plus have to deal with using a bigger board unless there's really good wind. Though it is better with newer boards that feel like they're riding a little smaller & let you fly the board a bit easier. I think big guys more consistently tend to hold the rig more steady.

I don't speak German (I think it was German) so couldn't understand a word on video ??

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mikey100 said..

I don't speak German (I think it was German) so couldn't understand a word on video ??

You can turn on the English subtitles.

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sailquik said..

mikey100 said..

I don't speak German (I think it was German) so couldn't understand a word on video ??

You can turn on the English subtitles.

Well there you go. I learn something from you guys every day. So, the lady used up to 16kg on flat water. Looks like I need to combine my two jackets. Just don't like the prospect of wading through the soft, deep mud at my local speed sites.

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mikey100 said..

Well there you go. I learn something from you guys every day. So, the lady used up to 16kg on flat water. Looks like I need to combine my two jackets. Just don't like the prospect of wading through the soft, deep mud at my local speed sites.

I strongly advise serious caution in stacking on more than 8-10 KG, especially, without getting used to having some lesser amount first. Heidi is on a mission, gunning for the women's world record, and doing a huge amount of training, but that amount of weight is still at the extreme end of the scale!!

To get idea of what it feels like. Load up with 10Kg on your shoulders and walk a Km to the shops and back and see how you feel. Then try riding a bicycle or a skateboard. You might find it a breeze, but at least you are more informed.

Oh, and before you sail, lay down in the water and see if you still float!

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sailquik said..

mikey100 said..

Well there you go. I learn something from you guys every day. So, the lady used up to 16kg on flat water. Looks like I need to combine my two jackets. Just don't like the prospect of wading through the soft, deep mud at my local speed sites.

I strongly advise serious caution in stacking on more than 8-10 KG, especially, without getting used to having some lesser amount first. Heidi is on a mission, gunning for the women's world record, and doing a huge amount of training, but that amount of weight is still at the extreme end of the scale!!

To get idea of what it feels like. Load up with 10Kg on your shoulders and walk a Km to the shops and back and see how you feel. Then try riding a bicycle or a skateboard. You might find it a breeze, but at least you are more informed.

Oh, and before you sail, lay down in the water and see if you still float!

As I stated in my opening, I am doing heaps of gym work, wear 5kg almost every sail, and I definitely have positive buoyancy. At LG in 2019 I wore 8kg nearly every day. Eric Beale (name dropping) told me that when he set his PB of 49.74 500m in 2015 that he was wearing 16kg. I think 10kg will be my limit, but only on very flat water.. Or until I hurt myself.

Well then, you are already there and ready to explore your limits. Go for it.

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sailquik said..
Well then, you are already there and ready to explore your limits. Go for it.

All I gotta do now is sail quick Sailquik.

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mikey100 said..

sailquik said..
Well then, you are already there and ready to explore your limits. Go for it.

All I gotta do now is sail quick Sailquik.

You are already there too Mikey.

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sailquik said..

mikey100 said..

Well there you go. I learn something from you guys every day. So, the lady used up to 16kg on flat water. Looks like I need to combine my two jackets. Just don't like the prospect of wading through the soft, deep mud at my local speed sites.

I strongly advise serious caution in stacking on more than 8-10 KG, especially, without getting used to having some lesser amount first. Heidi is on a mission, gunning for the women's world record, and doing a huge amount of training, but that amount of weight is still at the extreme end of the scale!!

To get idea of what it feels like. Load up with 10Kg on your shoulders and walk a Km to the shops and back and see how you feel. Then try riding a bicycle or a skateboard. You might find it a breeze, but at least you are more informed.

Oh, and before you sail, lay down in the water and see if you still float!

Put a weekend backpack on and walk up a mountain.. that gives a good idea what an extra 16kgs is like..

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sboardcrazy said..

sailquik said..

mikey100 said..

Well there you go. I learn something from you guys every day. So, the lady used up to 16kg on flat water. Looks like I need to combine my two jackets. Just don't like the prospect of wading through the soft, deep mud at my local speed sites.

I strongly advise serious caution in stacking on more than 8-10 KG, especially, without getting used to having some lesser amount first. Heidi is on a mission, gunning for the women's world record, and doing a huge amount of training, but that amount of weight is still at the extreme end of the scale!!

To get idea of what it feels like. Load up with 10Kg on your shoulders and walk a Km to the shops and back and see how you feel. Then try riding a bicycle or a skateboard. You might find it a breeze, but at least you are more informed.

Oh, and before you sail, lay down in the water and see if you still float!

Put a weekend backpack on and walk up a mountain.. that gives a good idea what an extra 16kgs is like..

Sounds like too much leg work Sue. Am so lazy, I ever usually try to start with my feet in the straps.

www.facebook.com/groups/520885571256427/permalink/4885814718096802/
An interesting report on Luderitz today and the importance of weight (or weight jackets) on speed.

Woody did 44+ in Bunno last months. Don't think that he was wearing weights or weigh over 90kegs. I might be wrong tho

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BSN101 said..
Woody did 44+ in Bunno last months. Don't think that he was wearing weights or weigh over 90kegs. I might be wrong tho

90kg is classed as weight to us around 70kg.

72kg here, when speed sailing I have 5-6kg on in weight jacket. Seems to be the sweet spot to last all day for me. Plus still be buoyant. Having the right kit to match too is the go! I don't even look at the bigger guys holding down a 6.2m and I could be on a 5.2m matching them for speed. I wouldn't consider going over 8kg vest unless you can touch the bottom where sailing easily. I've witnessed Hamma near drown when I think he had 10plus kg in his vest at the PIT once.

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izaak said..
72kg here, when speed sailing I have 5-6kg on in weight jacket. Seems to be the sweet spot to last all day for me. Plus still be buoyant. Having the right kit to match too is the go! I don't even look at the bigger guys holding down a 6.2m and I could be on a 5.2m matching them for speed. I wouldn't consider going over 8kg vest unless you can touch the bottom where sailing easily. I've witnessed Hamma near drown when I think he had 10plus kg in his vest at the PIT once.

Our crew abide by the 'drop it in the water and it must float or you don't use it' rule for weight jackets.

I natural weight jacket floats

Agree with the natural weight jacket. I have been permanently wearing a 6kg COVID lockdown weight jacket for the last 5 months to get in training for the summer NE'ers here in Sydney

Has anyone thought of using a water based jacket? One that you can fill up before you start your run and then dump the water when you head back up wind. I know this would be more bulky than lead but does become neutral weight when your in the water. Being a light weight rider myself I've only worn weights once or twice. I dont like that sinky feeling. I have filled my wetsuit up with water but it drains out and is cold.... Just a idea

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Dan133 said..
Has anyone thought of using a water based jacket? One that you can fill up before you start your run and then dump the water when you head back up wind. I know this would be more bulky than lead but does become neutral weight when your in the water. Being a light weight rider myself I've only worn weights once or twice. I dont like that sinky feeling. I have filled my wetsuit up with water but it drains out and is cold.... Just a idea

One of our Pit Crew members tried this by using hot water bottles as the weight. Very funny but didn't work. 3 kg of water takes up a lot of room in your wet suit or backpack. Lead is much more compact. Sadly John passed away 5yrs ago from the flu