Select to expand quote

ratz said..
I use pies....

Cakes & Pies is a sure bet

Just think... $1500 for a new sail... x3 , $2500 for a new board x2 , $$$$ for those trips to the holy grail of destinations.

.... pies might be a lot cheaper, for a better result.

Select to expand quote

mathew said..
Just think... $1500 for a new sail... x3 , $2500 for a new board x2 , $$$$ for those trips to the holy grail of destinations.

.... pies might be a lot cheaper, for a better result.

Move so you're in the middle of the holy grail locations and you can spend the $$$$ on the go faster bits

The most difficult part in my experience is a good sail performance. My experience when buying a random sail + recommended mast is a good chance 80% the performance is good for normal weight windsurfers. There is smaller chance 10% the sail stiffness is perfect and small chance 10% its bad. When your much lighter or heavier the chance of getting good performance decreases.

Often performance has (technically) not much to do with weight. Heavier guys have a bigger chance getting a sail which is too soft, this is annoying since this makes it harder to get planning, therefor heavier windsurfers are quickly tempted to try something other than recommended. A light windsurfer with a sail too stiff starts planning earlier and in consistent wind he or she can be quite fast, the lighter windsurfer is often not tempted to try something else because in a small range of conditions it works. However when its gusty, a sail too stiff is not good at all for performance. The lighter windsurfer can use a much smaller (too stiff) to compensate, however the small sail lacks shock absorption of a good sail softness (and this is key for perfromance in gusts and highwind).

In other words, and mentioned before in thus topic: a lightweight has to finetune to his or her specific needs (often off spec with maybe an alternative mast).

Select to expand quote

kato said..

mathew said..
Just think... $1500 for a new sail... x3 , $2500 for a new board x2 , $$$$ for those trips to the holy grail of destinations.

.... pies might be a lot cheaper, for a better result.

Move so you're in the middle of the holy grail locations and you can spend the $$$$ on the go faster bits

and make sure to scope out the local bakery

Miami ?

Select to expand quote

elmo said..
Personally unless it's blowing it's tit's off, I'm sorry but I think the weight thing is a bit of a psychological cop out.

I use the example of Ben Proffit at Namibia recently, a small lightweight speed sailing virgin, didn't know any better went out and did it, yes he strapped on weight later but so did the heavyweights.

In normal conditions a light weight uses smaller faster gear than a heavyweight so what's going on?

A lot of these barriers are in our head, I find I regularly talk myself out of the conditions which I should be able to handle and once the thought is in your head that "you can't do it" or the wind's to strong or to light or it's to choppy then the day is done you aren't going to achieve anything.

Think instead that "I'm on speed gear" rather than the slalom gear what us fat FLICKS have to use, "I will go faster easier".

If you want extra weight, Wear a 3L camelback, that's 3kg of use-able neutral buoyancy weight, with the benefit keeping yourself hydrated whilst sailing (even in winter) seriously helps with issues set up from dehydration (I loose coordination).

Use earplug's, I got this one from and article by Karrin Jaggi, if you can't hear the wind noise, then you reduce the sensory overload making you think it's less windy and therefore scary than what it is. This works, it just makes it hard for talking to people when you stop.

Sorry Elmo, but this 'weight thing' is not a 'psychological cop out', it is a science fact.

That windsurfers are limited in speed by weight and height (leverage) has been very well calculated, and practically illustrated in endless examples.

Ben Profit's 50 knot peak at Luderitz was a great effort, and he deserves all the credit he has received, but it was also done in an exceptional set of circumstances, with the very best gear and with some excellent expert advice. The conditions at Luderitz vary a LOT, and are not always perfect.

It is true though, that we (almost) all have 'barriers in our heads'.

BTW. I love the 'sensory overload' of the wind and sounds in wild conditions! I actively seek it out, but some I know, do think I am a bit nuts.

Select to expand quote

Erik Loots said..
The most difficult part in my experience is a good sail performance. My experience when buying a random sail + recommended mast is a good chance 80% the performance is good for normal weight windsurfers. There is smaller chance 10% the sail stiffness is perfect and small chance 10% its bad. When your much lighter or heavier the chance of getting good performance decreases.

Often performance has (technically) not much to do with weight. Heavier guys have a bigger chance getting a sail which is too soft, this is annoying since this makes it harder to get planning, therefor heavier windsurfers are quickly tempted to try something other than recommended. A light windsurfer with a sail too stiff starts planning earlier and in consistent wind he or she can be quite fast, the lighter windsurfer is often not tempted to try something else because in a small range of conditions it works. However when its gusty, a sail too stiff is not good at all for performance. The lighter windsurfer can use a much smaller (too stiff) to compensate, however the small sail lacks shock absorption of a good sail softness (and this is key for perfromance in gusts and highwind).

In other words, and mentioned before in thus topic: a lightweight has to finetune to his or her specific needs (often off spec with maybe an alternative mast).

There is some important truth in this Eric, but in my experience, it is more likely that Race/Slalom/Speed sails are designed and optimised for heavyweights than for lightweights, just because the vast majority of the worlds professional PWA sailors (and therefore those who have the most influence and input into Race/Slalom/Speed sail design) fall into the heavyweight catagory.

Looking for, and experimenting with slightly softer masts can often bear good results for lightsweights, as you point out. If a sail luff length calls for a mast that has less than 5-10cm of base extension, using the next shorter (and therefore softer) mast can sometimes help.

In particular, this I why I presonally favour RDM masts for their slightly more dynamically softer feeling in my speed sails. Not to mention their exceptional resistance to breaking in my inevitable stacks!

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

elmo said..
Personally unless it's blowing it's tit's off, I'm sorry but I think the weight thing is a bit of a psychological cop out.

I use the example of Ben Proffit at Namibia recently, a small lightweight speed sailing virgin, didn't know any better went out and did it, yes he strapped on weight later but so did the heavyweights.

In normal conditions a light weight uses smaller faster gear than a heavyweight so what's going on?

A lot of these barriers are in our head, I find I regularly talk myself out of the conditions which I should be able to handle and once the thought is in your head that "you can't do it" or the wind's to strong or to light or it's to choppy then the day is done you aren't going to achieve anything.

Think instead that "I'm on speed gear" rather than the slalom gear what us fat FLICKS have to use, "I will go faster easier".

If you want extra weight, Wear a 3L camelback, that's 3kg of use-able neutral buoyancy weight, with the benefit keeping yourself hydrated whilst sailing (even in winter) seriously helps with issues set up from dehydration (I loose coordination).

Use earplug's, I got this one from and article by Karrin Jaggi, if you can't hear the wind noise, then you reduce the sensory overload making you think it's less windy and therefore scary than what it is. This works, it just makes it hard for talking to people when you stop.

Sorry Elmo, but this 'weight thing' is not a 'psychological cop out', it is a science fact.

That windsurfers are limited in speed by weight and height (leverage) has been very well calculated, and practically illustrated in endless examples.

Ben Profit's 50 knot peak at Luderitz was a great effort, and he deserves all the credit he has received, but it was also done in an exceptional set of circumstances, with the very best gear and with some excellent expert advice. The conditions at Luderitz vary a LOT, and are not always perfect.

It is true though, that we (almost) all have 'barriers in our heads'.

BTW. I love the 'sensory overload' of the wind and sounds in wild conditions! I actively seek it out, but some I know, do think I am a bit nuts.

Being a light weight, i do in part agree with what elmo has said.

Smaller gear (sails in particular) tends to react more violently to gusts/waves than bigger gear. If im on my smaller board with my 5.7m on top in say 22 gusting to 25 knts i'll more than likely back off in the gusts, because i know i'll get chucked by the next wave. If i stick my 7.0m on top of the same board, same conditions, despite the fact that its at the maximum that i can handle the 7m at, i feel far better about hitting the chop at speed because the sail is far steadier to handle than the 5.7m.

I definitely agree with what you say about the gear being designed around heavyweights, theres a significant advantage to having the extra weight to hold gear down.

i remember watching an episode of top gear where they stick richard hammond in an f1 car. After a few laps of trying to drive it around the track at speed they bring him in, because hes not driving it fast enough for everything to function properly and keep him attached to the track. It occurred to me that full on slalom kit functions the same way. You can grovel on it, but you cant be sailing around at half speed, thats when you'll more than likely get hurt. It's made to be sailed at full tilt. Of course crashes at full tilt can happen, but the gear will feel far more in control than when youre backing off.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

Sorry Elmo, but this 'weight thing' is not a 'psychological cop out', it is a science fact.

That windsurfers are limited in speed by weight and height (leverage) has been very well calculated, and practically illustrated in endless examples.

It's mostly a terminal velocity issue. Sort of like that of a rock vs. a pebble.

ie. Motive force proportional to gravity, drag force proportional to cross sectional area.

Motivation goes up with dimension cubed, drag with cross section or dimension squared.

I think the length of the arms is cancelled out to some degree by larger sailors needing a taller rig to generate more force?

Thanks Ian,
I had a feeling the squared relationship between volume and area may have something to do with it. But doesn't this imply body aerodynamics are playing a big part in drag?

The aerodynamics of the sailor would follow the analogy pretty well. The rest would be more complicated. The induced drag of the hull will be linear with rider weight. So might the hull's skin friction drag. Lighter sailors have to push a standard diameter boom through the apparent wind with less power available. Heavy sailors can smash through whatever chop there is on a speed course without feeling unsettled you'd think? Is the weight of the rig linear with sail size? Probably not. Another win for the heavier sailor?

( the NP 7.0 Evox is only 5% heavier than the 6.4 for 10% more power. They both use the same 430 mast and boom so that reduces the percentage difference in weight for 10% more power even further.)

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..

ie. Motive force proportional to gravity, drag force proportional to cross sectional area.

Motivation goes up with dimension cubed, drag with cross section or dimension squared.

But how does these relationships explain sailors who are > 120kg ?. Most of these big guys sail very slow.

Select to expand quote

jn1 said..

Ian K said..

ie. Motive force proportional to gravity, drag force proportional to cross sectional area.

Motivation goes up with dimension cubed, drag with cross section or dimension squared.

But how does these relationships explain sailors who are > 120kg ?. Most of these big guys sail very slow.

Physical health and fitness does play a part.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..
Physical health and fitness does play a part.

And they may be a bit more wary about breaking stuff.

Congratulations to Lyd's with his new Pb of 38.422 ! and with the high water level at the moment it was in small chop.. not Budgy glass.. More to come in the glass I think..
I must try some of these tips..

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
Congratulations to Lyd's with his new Pb of 38.422 ! and with the high water level at the moment it was in small chop.. not Budgy glass.. More to come in the glass I think..
I must try some of these tips..

Thanks Sue, actually I have tried many of them but the one that works the best is weight. Struggling to break 35 all morning with the board being very flighty, then I put on a 10kg weight vest and the board just rode so much better and gave me the confidence in the small chop to go for it. I would only recommend it in rougher conditions and shallow water as you go to the bottom pretty much ?? onwards and upwards

Select to expand quote

Tinlyds said..

sboardcrazy said..
Congratulations to Lyd's with his new Pb of 38.422 ! and with the high water level at the moment it was in small chop.. not Budgy glass.. More to come in the glass I think..
I must try some of these tips..

Thanks Sue, actually I have tried many of them but the one that works the best is weight. Struggling to break 35 all morning with the board being very flighty, then I put on a 10kg weight vest and the board just rode so much better and gave me the confidence in the small chop to go for it. I would only recommend it in rougher conditions and shallow water as you go to the bottom pretty much ?? onwards and upwards

Aha secret revealed..

No secret, I want everyone to go faster and I believe that this may help ??

Select to expand quote

Tinlyds said..
No secret, I want everyone to go faster and I believe that this may help ??

I was joking..
I tried 2 camelbacks for extra weight once. Unfortunately it was also the first time I'd tried my 50ltre speedboard. I had the mastfoot too far forward and the nose kept diving..No way was I going to give up though and I ended up body dragging across the channel at Budgy to the otherside ..My arms were like spaghetti after and I could hardly sail ..

I wouldn't let a weight jacket be the key to going faster all the time, as the overall % here.

Im 70kg now and use a maximum of 4kg in my weight jacket. (Was 63kg when I cracked 43.5kts)

I have found being in tune with your gear. Knowing what works best, both board,sail and fin combo. Is the big factor. Point being efficiency

Good tip is not to change to many adjustments all in one go.

Maybe head out with something changed each session and see how it goes. Note: Always good to have a base setting you know works, to start with.

^^^ +1

A modest amout of extra weight only works in the right conditions when you have everything else right.

And indeed, it can be very tiring. Need to work up to it. It also changes you own balance, another reason to work up to it and tune as you go.

I used weight in Luderitz, but hardly ever do so elsewhere. It's better to concentrate on the fundamentals.