VMG must be relative to wind direction? Does the software make assumptions about the direction of the wind based on your port and starboard angles?

Yes.

One can also manually define a wind direction.

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Flex2 said..
Sailquik, I think you mean your speed on water is 20-23 knots when heading upwind...all realtime feedback systems for windsurfing currently give your speed, not VMG. You only have a couple of tracks shared on KA72 and only one at Lake George but based on the one, your best VMG is a super impressive VMG of 15knots at 45 deg to wind with average speed on water of 22.89 knots (exactly as you state)....there is location bias on the plot which would reduce the actual #'s but still way above others.

Wow! Great analysis Flex! Thanks. I have played with GPSAR-Pro quite a bit, but strangely, I have not explored that facility much at all. I am now inspired to check it out more.

Yes, of course, I was referring to the board speed that results in my best VMG.

Velocity Made Bad. This plot is from a weekend foil raid. Looks like I can go pretty quick directly downwind, although that might have been on a swell. Wonder if there is a way to make sure its 2 sec or 10sec VMG plot?

OK just had another session on my new black project kestrel 22cm on my 7.8m and 71cm board unfortunately very poor VMG again.
Only way I could gain ground was slogging or planing with back foot out of the strap with board railed to windward like a freestyle board.

www.blackprojectwindsurfing.com/windsurfing-racing-slalom-fin-size-guide-including-options-for-weed-shallow-water/

There was some current to fight against but about the same as the session posted above

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thedoor said..
OK just had another session on my new black project kestrel 22cm on my 7.8m and 71cm board unfortunately very poor VMG again.
Only way I could gain ground was slogging or planing with back foot out of the strap with board railed to windward like a freestyle board.

www.blackprojectwindsurfing.com/windsurfing-racing-slalom-fin-size-guide-including-options-for-weed-shallow-water/

There was some current to fight against but about the same as the session posted above

The Kestral is a pretty ordinary Delta fin. The Tribal, Atomic, Fangy and Tectonics brands are more efficient, generate more lift and are better. Even these will still struggle to match a good pointer or weed speed. We only use deltas when it's either too shallow or the weed is too thick for weed speeds. How deep is the water you were sailing in?

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John340 said..

thedoor said..
OK just had another session on my new black project kestrel 22cm on my 7.8m and 71cm board unfortunately very poor VMG again.
Only way I could gain ground was slogging or planing with back foot out of the strap with board railed to windward like a freestyle board.

www.blackprojectwindsurfing.com/windsurfing-racing-slalom-fin-size-guide-including-options-for-weed-shallow-water/

There was some current to fight against but about the same as the session posted above

The Kestral is a pretty ordinary Delta fin. The Tribal, Atomic, Fangy and Tectonics brands are more efficient, generate more lift and are better. Even these will still struggle to match a good pointer or weed speed. We only use deltas when it's either too shallow or the weed is too thick for weed speeds. How deep is the water you were sailing in?

. OK good to know, I was wondering if I needed a larger one. Today I had enough water to use a regular fin but wanted to test that fin. I would say I would likely only need to use that fin 1 out of 20 sessions at a local low tide spot that has some mud flats that can be less than a foot deep.

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John340 said..

thedoor said..
OK just had another session on my new black project kestrel 22cm on my 7.8m and 71cm board unfortunately very poor VMG again.
Only way I could gain ground was slogging or planing with back foot out of the strap with board railed to windward like a freestyle board.

www.blackprojectwindsurfing.com/windsurfing-racing-slalom-fin-size-guide-including-options-for-weed-shallow-water/

There was some current to fight against but about the same as the session posted above

The Kestral is a pretty ordinary Delta fin. The Tribal, Atomic, Fangy and Tectonics brands are more efficient, generate more lift and are better. Even these will still struggle to match a good pointer or weed speed. We only use deltas when it's either too shallow or the weed is too thick for weed speeds. How deep is the water you were sailing in?

Not sure how to get a fangy. Tribal delta looks nice though. Wondering if i should go 18 + 22cm or 16 + 20 cm

Boards 62cm and 71cm
Sails 6.2, 7.1, 7.8 (getting a 5.5 soon)

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thedoor said..

John340 said..

thedoor said..
OK just had another session on my new black project kestrel 22cm on my 7.8m and 71cm board unfortunately very poor VMG again.
Only way I could gain ground was slogging or planing with back foot out of the strap with board railed to windward like a freestyle board.

www.blackprojectwindsurfing.com/windsurfing-racing-slalom-fin-size-guide-including-options-for-weed-shallow-water/

There was some current to fight against but about the same as the session posted above

The Kestral is a pretty ordinary Delta fin. The Tribal, Atomic, Fangy and Tectonics brands are more efficient, generate more lift and are better. Even these will still struggle to match a good pointer or weed speed. We only use deltas when it's either too shallow or the weed is too thick for weed speeds. How deep is the water you were sailing in?

Not sure how to get a fangy. Tribal delta looks nice though. Wondering if i should go 18 + 22cm or 16 + 20 cm

Boards 62cm and 71cm
Sails 6.2, 7.1, 7.8 (getting a 5.5 soon)

I have Atomics and use a 20 on my 62 and 24 on my 72. Being lighter than me, you should use the 18 and 22 in the Tribal. Tribal have 2 models, the Delta and Delta Sym. The Delta Sym is potentially faster, but the Delta has more grip in chop. I like the grip, it gets me upwind faster and provides more speed runs / opportunity per session.

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John340 said..

thedoor said..

John340 said..

thedoor said..
OK just had another session on my new black project kestrel 22cm on my 7.8m and 71cm board unfortunately very poor VMG again.
Only way I could gain ground was slogging or planing with back foot out of the strap with board railed to windward like a freestyle board.

www.blackprojectwindsurfing.com/windsurfing-racing-slalom-fin-size-guide-including-options-for-weed-shallow-water/

There was some current to fight against but about the same as the session posted above

The Kestral is a pretty ordinary Delta fin. The Tribal, Atomic, Fangy and Tectonics brands are more efficient, generate more lift and are better. Even these will still struggle to match a good pointer or weed speed. We only use deltas when it's either too shallow or the weed is too thick for weed speeds. How deep is the water you were sailing in?

Not sure how to get a fangy. Tribal delta looks nice though. Wondering if i should go 18 + 22cm or 16 + 20 cm

Boards 62cm and 71cm
Sails 6.2, 7.1, 7.8 (getting a 5.5 soon)

I have Atomics and use a 20 on my 62 and 24 on my 72. Being lighter than me, you should use the 18 and 22 in the Tribal. Tribal have 2 models, the Delta and Delta Sym. The Delta Sym is potentially faster, but the Delta has more grip in chop. I like the grip, it gets me upwind faster and provides more speed runs / opportunity per session.

I thought the delta sym might go up wind better cause it is placed more forward relative to the tuttle. But looks like regular delta has more area for its length? My low tide spot does have some chop so maybe regular delta is the way to go.

Why not a tectonics? One of these tectonicsmaui.com/collections/freeride-weed-fins/products/speed-demon should be good for Haskins at low tide.

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duzzi said..
Why not a tectonics? One of these tectonicsmaui.com/collections/freeride-weed-fins/products/speed-demon should be good for Haskins at low tide.

Tectonics are on par with the Tribals and Atomics. They all performed well at Lake George this season.

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John340 said..

Tectonics are on par with the Tribals and Atomics. They all performed well at Lake George this season.

I have, and use them all. They are all great, but for me, there are subtle differences between them in their spinout resistance in choppy conditions. I got 40+ knots peaks from all three. I used the 21cm Techtonics and the 20cm Atomic in my IS80 slalom with 5.7m sail. I used the 12cm Tribal Delta for 40 knots on my 40cm speed board with 5.2m Sail which is great in especially shallow or thick weed venues.

All will work, but my recommendation is to err on the side of slightly larger (deeper) if upwind ability and spinout resistance are more of a priority. In all honestly, in my experience, with these particular fins, going 2cm deeper makes an insignificant difference to top speed, but markedly improves every other parameter of performance.

If shallow depth is the biggest factor for you, I think the Tribal Delta has the largest area for it's depth so it may be able to be run a bit shorter than the others without sacrificing upwind ability as much. But the 23cm Techtonics should still be fine in 30-40cm deep water (just under knee deep).

Hi,
not that I am a master of power jibes... but I realize that sometimes you try to shift the sail with your front hand being maybe 6-8 inches away from the mast. The sail doesn't rotate properly then, and pulls you forward because it is still powered up a bit.
Try to always slide your hand very much to the mast just when starting to shift the sail.
Sure you know that already, but I think your jibes would be great if you focus on sliding the hand forwards to the mast.
best,
mariachi76

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mariachi76 said..
Hi,
not that I am a master of power jibes... but I realize that sometimes you try to shift the sail with your front hand being maybe 6-8 inches away from the mast. The sail doesn't rotate properly then, and pulls you forward because it is still powered up a bit.
Try to always slide your hand very much to the mast just when starting to shift the sail.
Sure you know that already, but I think your jibes would be great if you focus on sliding the hand forwards to the mast.
best,
mariachi76

Glad you brought this up cause i do not think i have thought about doing that for a long time if ever. Iooks like i am doing some shifting forwards before sail flip , but not always. Maybe get closer to mast?

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thedoor said..

mariachi76 said..
Hi,
not that I am a master of power jibes... but I realize that sometimes you try to shift the sail with your front hand being maybe 6-8 inches away from the mast. The sail doesn't rotate properly then, and pulls you forward because it is still powered up a bit.
Try to always slide your hand very much to the mast just when starting to shift the sail.
Sure you know that already, but I think your jibes would be great if you focus on sliding the hand forwards to the mast.
best,
mariachi76

Glad you brought this up cause i do not think i have thought about doing that for a long time if ever. Iooks like i am doing some shifting forwards before sail flip , but not always. Maybe get closer to mast?

Since your nick here is "thedoor", let me use the analogy of a door as it just fits so perfectly :-).
A door has the hinge at the very side of it because that way the door opens/closes best. The same way, your front hand is acting as a hinge for the sail, and the little finger has to touch the mast or boom end basically. That's then exactly the rotation axis of the sail when you shift it, and makes shifting very easy.
If you hold the boom 6-8 inches away from the mast, the rotation axis is moved away from the mast, but also moved toward you because of the shape of the boom. That way the sail doesn't rotate freely and doesn't swing around properly, and it remains powered up a bit which then can throw you off balance.
So yes, the same moment you release the sail with your back hand, shift your front hand totally towards the mast.
At least that's how I've been taught by some really good PWA level trainers. Of course, sometimes when I am not focused I forget to do it. And typically end up with the sail only rotating 2/3, me being pulled towards lee and falling onto the the lee side, with the the sail clew-first in the water (Which is then the worst position for waterstarting ).
So when I then think why exactly I ended up swimming in the water instead of making a nice planing exit of the jibe, that's when I remember that my front hand was in the wrong place :-)

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thedoor said..
Glad you brought this up cause i do not think i have thought about doing that for a long time if ever. Iooks like i am doing some shifting forwards before sail flip , but not always. Maybe get closer to mast?

Jem Hall calls sliding the hand forward towards the mast on the boom the "boom shaka". I like the term since it sticks to my memory well. Do a few sessions where you concentrate on doing the boom shaka in every jibe. You'll be surprised how much of a difference it makes. When I did this a few years back, my dry jibe rate in some nasty chop went from 50% to above 90%. That was with freeride sails - with cambered sails, the effect can be even bigger, since they are heavier and are harder to depower.

Unfortunately, if you've jibed without moving your front hand to the boom for years, you may need to bunch of sessions to replace the old (and bad) muscle memory. It's something I deal with in every session after jibing poorly for a few decades before learning how to do it right, and I've seen the same problem with others with similar background. In contrast, many windsurfers who learned to jibe properly right away (e.g. thanks to ABk camps) regard jibes as trivial...

Hand to mast (boom shaka) tip during the gybes really helped. Also I ended up raising my boom about 5 cm halfway through and i was amazed at how much it impacted control. I started getting that front foot flying out of the strap feeling again. Seems like I need to have the boom as high as possible without getting that flying front foot feeling