This may have been discussed already but my GW60 band just joined the others and cracked. The manufacturers are offering a refurb for 65 USD plus fees.
What say the experts? Go to a different brand? Don't need to upload to competition sites but like the ease of use of this one, as well as the ability to upload tracks on to Earth .

Get a cheap $40 phone and load GPSLogit, then you can listen to your speeds as you sail.

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decrepit said..
Get a cheap $40 phone and load GPSLogit, then you can listen to your speeds as you sail.

Yes. If you are not into GPSTC, use a cheap Phone and GPS-Logit. Just get a good waterproof bag for it! Wear it on the upper arm and you can hear the speed talk most of the time.

But the replacement GW-60 is still a reasonably good deal.

Gaffer tape.

I don't think a cheap phone is a real alternative, since a wrist watch is more convenient (although if you don't mind using a waterproof bag, it's a good choice). Neither should you fork over $65 to a company that refuses to honor warranties, for a product that has plenty of other ways to fail in addition to the arm band.

If you are not posting to the GPS Team Challenge, your best bet may be to look for an alternative GPS watch. There are some out there that are cheaper than the GW60, and don't have arm bands that break, contacts that rust when you press buttons while the watch, etc. etc.

A really good GPS watch is the Timex Ironman GPS on Amazon for about $90 US. This watch is ONLY GPS. It does not have all that workout stuff and heart rate stuff that we don't need. Just GPS and, of course, a watch mode. It is waterproof.

The charging and data cable is standard micro-USB. Nothing proprietary or weird.

GPS data are stored in watch memory in a .fit format. The software Timex Connect not only uploads the data to a Windows computer, but it also updates the watch satellite ephemris data. It also has automatic upload to sites like Strava. It comes with 4 modes: swim, bike, run, and other. I use "other," since the data that "other" uploads to Strava is a good fit for our water sports.

I have used mine hard for ten months now. No problems with the watchband or screen or waterproofing. It just works.

If you never intend to post to GPSTC then a sport watch is great and if purchased locally covered by Australian consumer law.

Have seen this for GW60.



If you look look at Seabreeze there is endless issues with GW60 watch, buttons fail, buttons not water proof, band breaks, battery fails after about 150-200 uses, battery only lasts 5 hours on water, contacts rust, contacts require cleaning regularly, connection clamp pins stick, com port error issues uploading and long down time replacing when it fails.
Also only has GPS so misses data in SEQ and Northern parts of NSW.

KA stores all your data and can be filtered per location , date and 2 sec speeds. Also keeps total data per location for number of times sailed and total distance.


Upload the windsurfing App.

Yes I agree with Cocky2, The Garmins are super reliable, produce doppler speeds, use GPS and Glosnass satellite systems, are fully configurable via apps and widgets. They also act as smart watches so you can get your phone messages on them. If you shop around there is nearly always a model available at half price.

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Cocky2 said..
If you never intend to post to GPSTC then a sport watch is great and if purchased locally covered by Australian consumer law.

Have seen this for GW60.



If you look look at Seabreeze there is endless issues with GW60 watch, buttons fail, buttons not water proof, band breaks, battery fails after about 150-200 uses, battery only lasts 5 hours on water, contacts rust, contacts require cleaning regularly, connection clamp pins stick, com port error issues uploading and long down time replacing when it fails.
Also only has GPS so misses data in SEQ and Northern parts of NSW.

KA stores all your data and can be filtered per location , date and 2 sec speeds. Also keeps total data per location for number of times sailed and total distance.


Upload the windsurfing App.

LOOK Byron !!!! You don't have to sell your house.

I believe JulienLe has something special lined up and at a VERY realistic price - Ive had my Motion now for a few weeks, used it 4 times and Ive got to say, WOW, what a breeze it is to use, operate and worth the wait time. Julien's new Data Logger will be even simpler to use and you can use it in the GPSTC if you so choose. Might be worth jumping in and placing an order with you team mates.

Billy, Yes the motion and the logger are the best things for the GPSTC, but the op just wants on the water feedback. If he ever joins a team having the motion will be a bonus, but if he doesn't, there's probably cheaper options that meet his requirements.

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Cocky2 said..
If you never intend to post to GPSTC then a sport watch is great and if purchased locally covered by Australian consumer law.

Have seen this for GW60.



If you look look at Seabreeze there is endless issues with GW60 watch, buttons fail, buttons not water proof, band breaks, battery fails after about 150-200 uses, battery only lasts 5 hours on water, contacts rust, contacts require cleaning regularly, connection clamp pins stick, com port error issues uploading and long down time replacing when it fails.
Also only has GPS so misses data in SEQ and Northern parts of NSW.

KA stores all your data and can be filtered per location , date and 2 sec speeds. Also keeps total data per location for number of times sailed and total distance.


Upload the windsurfing App.

Hahahaha nice, that's mine. I don't call it a watch anymore because both bands are gone. I'm not sure what you call a watch with no band, maybe a wrist clock ?? anyway the glad wrapping is great but I'm running low, hopefully it's on special this week. ????????????????????

Thanks for all the info fellas, have decided not to throw any more money at the loco refurb, might end up with something worse. Will use the bandless gw while saving for a replacement. I really just want an easy and clear fun meter, with the ability to upload tracks to Earth type pictures, the Garmin is tempting me. Son in law just got the double priced Qatix from Whitworths and the sailing bits of it are great fyi.
Thanks again.

I think that's the way to go, Plywoodboy.
Why anyone would continue to suggest people use this device after all of the documented failures listed on these pages?
Motivations may be questioned?
Seems to be very little sympathy for those who have been burnt?

My Garmin 920xt with the windsurfing app (pictured above) has been great for on the water feedback. After 4 years, the band started to breakup, but I have been able to replace it with Velcro from Bunnings for $10

A little more info about the Timex Ironman GPS.

The watch band is held on with press-through pins. The only way to knock the band of in use is to completely break the pin. Not much chance of that.

Being simple also means no wifi, no bluetooth, no muss no fuss. Just the micro-USB cable for data and charging.

You can set it up to display your actual speed while on the water. Easy to read screen.

The workout summary shows maximum speed, distance, elaasped time of session, and a couple other things if you want to write them into a logbook.

The speed data appears to be calculated from trackpoints, not doppler. Thus, it might show spikes, and the maximum speed result might be a spiked point. Thus, you can't use this watch for GPSTC speed checks. No biggie if you just want a good GPS watch. If you upload to Strava (very easy with this watch), it appears Strava filters out speed spikes.

All of this for $75-90 US on amazon.

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Tinlyds said..

Cocky2 said..
If you never intend to post to GPSTC then a sport watch is great and if purchased locally covered by Australian consumer law.

Have seen this for GW60.



If you look look at Seabreeze there is endless issues with GW60 watch, buttons fail, buttons not water proof, band breaks, battery fails after about 150-200 uses, battery only lasts 5 hours on water, contacts rust, contacts require cleaning regularly, connection clamp pins stick, com port error issues uploading and long down time replacing when it fails.
Also only has GPS so misses data in SEQ and Northern parts of NSW.

KA stores all your data and can be filtered per location , date and 2 sec speeds. Also keeps total data per location for number of times sailed and total distance.


Upload the windsurfing App.

Hahahaha nice, that's mine. I don't call it a watch anymore because both bands are gone. I'm not sure what you call a watch with no band, maybe a wrist clock ?? anyway the glad wrapping is great but I'm running low, hopefully it's on special this week. ????????????????????

Waiting for gladwrap to be on special ?
Cheapskate..

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segler said..
A little more info about the Timex Ironman GPS.

The watch band is held on with press-through pins. The only way to knock the band of in use is to completely break the pin. Not much chance of that.

Being simple also means no wifi, no bluetooth, no muss no fuss. Just the micro-USB cable for data and charging.

You can set it up to display your actual speed while on the water. Easy to read screen.

The workout summary shows maximum speed, distance, elaasped time of session, and a couple other things if you want to write them into a logbook.

The speed data appears to be calculated from trackpoints, not doppler. Thus, it might show spikes, and the maximum speed result might be a spiked point. Thus, you can't use this watch for GPSTC speed checks. No biggie if you just want a good GPS watch. If you upload to Strava (very easy with this watch), it appears Strava filters out speed spikes.

All of this for $75-90 US on amazon.

sounds great , ..great value hard to go wrong, my GT31 is on the nose... :(
The FIT file you mentioned above... anyone know if it works on KA72? (which is the only program that i care that it works with)

The Suunto 3 is still avail in Ebay at Ryda

having a good run with mine

apps for Winsurf available for download

Bluetooth upload to iPad at waters edge at end of sailing


not suitable for gpstc

cheers Jeff

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FNQBilly said..
I believe JulienLe has something special lined up and at a VERY realistic price - Ive had my Motion now for a few weeks, used it 4 times and Ive got to say, WOW, what a breeze it is to use, operate and worth the wait time. Julien's new Data Logger will be even simpler to use and you can use it in the GPSTC if you so choose. Might be worth jumping in and placing an order with you team mates.

Any other potential FNQ Mob takers?

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JonesySail said..

The FIT file you mentioned above... anyone know if it works on KA72? (which is the only program that i care that it works with)

Yes KA72 accepts FIT files

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tbwonder said..

JonesySail said..

The FIT file you mentioned above... anyone know if it works on KA72? (which is the only program that i care that it works with)

Yes KA72 accepts FIT files

Thanks :)

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tbwonder said..

JonesySail said..

The FIT file you mentioned above... anyone know if it works on KA72? (which is the only program that i care that it works with)

Yes KA72 accepts FIT files

While both KA72 and GPSResults accept FIT files, they may not process them correctly. Before joining GPSTC I had a Garmin FR310XT (2015 version). I tried both KA72 and GPSResults and got data the matched what Garmin was claiming. Recently, a friend got a Garmin Fenix 5 Plus. NEITHER KA72 or GPSResults can successfully process the FIT files. I don't know if Garmin changed the FIT file format during the last five years or if in the process of extracting the FIT file from Garmin via a Mac is the issue. My FIT files were extracted from the Garmin ZIP file on a Windows machine. The extraction process should really not be an issue so I'm suspecting Garmin changed the FIT format. My thought is that depending upon the age of the Garmin device, the resulting FIT file may or may not be correctly processed by KA72 or GPSResults...

Yes, a couple-three years ago, Garmin upgraded the FIT format from version 1 to version 2. Unless you can use and read the FIT SDK (I can't) there is no way to know what they changed. If your upload does not process correctly, you can (take the extra steps--ugh) run your FIT file through GPSBabel 1.6.0, Garmin Basecamp, Garmin Connect, or gpsies.com (but not Garmin Training Center) to convert FIT v2 files to GPX, then upload your GPX.

We can ask KA72 and GPSResults to update their software to read and process FIT v2 as well as v1. Since they already write software, they should be able to use the FIT SDK.

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segler said..
Yes, a couple-three years ago, Garmin upgraded the FIT format from version 1 to version 2. Unless you can use and read the FIT SDK (I can't) there is no way to know what they changed. If your upload does not process correctly, you can (take the extra steps--ugh) run your FIT file through GPSBabel 1.6.0, Garmin Basecamp, Garmin Connect, or gpsies.com (but not Garmin Training Center) to convert FIT v2 files to GPX, then upload your GPX.

We can ask KA72 and GPSResults to update their software to read and process FIT v2 as well as v1. Since they already write software, they should be able to use the FIT SDK.

Thank you for the update on Garmin FIT. You verified what I suspected about a version change. Last night I sent emails to both Dylan and Manfred asking if it would be possible for them to update their SW. No response yet.

On the Garmin Connect website, it is possible to have Garmin convert the files to GPX but apparently they don't know how to do it either :) . They can convert V1 files to GPX that can be read by GPSResults. Converting a V2 file to GPX results in complete garbage, at least as far as GPSResults is concerned. I haven't tried the other apps but will experiment for grins sake...

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bartontb said..

segler said..
Yes, a couple-three years ago, Garmin upgraded the FIT format from version 1 to version 2. Unless you can use and read the FIT SDK (I can't) there is no way to know what they changed. If your upload does not process correctly, you can (take the extra steps--ugh) run your FIT file through GPSBabel 1.6.0, Garmin Basecamp, Garmin Connect, or gpsies.com (but not Garmin Training Center) to convert FIT v2 files to GPX, then upload your GPX.

We can ask KA72 and GPSResults to update their software to read and process FIT v2 as well as v1. Since they already write software, they should be able to use the FIT SDK.

Thank you for the update on Garmin FIT. You verified what I suspected about a version change. Last night I sent emails to both Dylan and Manfred asking if it would be possible for them to update their SW. No response yet.

On the Garmin Connect website, it is possible to have Garmin convert the files to GPX but apparently they don't know how to do it either :) . They can convert V1 files to GPX that can be read by GPSResults. Converting a V2 file to GPX results in complete garbage, at least as far as GPSResults is concerned. I haven't tried the other apps but will experiment for grins sake...

I've used the Garmin 235, Vivoactive 3 and Fenix 5 plus over the years and have never had trouble with using either KA72 or GPS Results when uploading as a GPX file. Never bothered with the Fit format.

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Boston! said..

bartontb said..

segler said..
Yes, a couple-three years ago, Garmin upgraded the FIT format from version 1 to version 2. Unless you can use and read the FIT SDK (I can't) there is no way to know what they changed. If your upload does not process correctly, you can (take the extra steps--ugh) run your FIT file through GPSBabel 1.6.0, Garmin Basecamp, Garmin Connect, or gpsies.com (but not Garmin Training Center) to convert FIT v2 files to GPX, then upload your GPX.

We can ask KA72 and GPSResults to update their software to read and process FIT v2 as well as v1. Since they already write software, they should be able to use the FIT SDK.

Thank you for the update on Garmin FIT. You verified what I suspected about a version change. Last night I sent emails to both Dylan and Manfred asking if it would be possible for them to update their SW. No response yet.

On the Garmin Connect website, it is possible to have Garmin convert the files to GPX but apparently they don't know how to do it either :) . They can convert V1 files to GPX that can be read by GPSResults. Converting a V2 file to GPX results in complete garbage, at least as far as GPSResults is concerned. I haven't tried the other apps but will experiment for grins sake...

I've used the Garmin 235, Vivoactive 3 and Fenix 5 plus over the years and have never had trouble with using either KA72 or GPS Results when uploading as a GPX file. Never bothered with the Fit format.

Boston!, interesting. How did you get the GPX file. When we tried to use the GPX conversion on Garmin Connect, the file was basically unreadable by GPS Results and when submitted to KA72, KA72 had a max speed 10 knots (!!) faster than what the Garmin app was reporting.

Open the activity in any Web browser. Select the settings icon. Select "export to gpx". Done. ??

That is what we did. GPX data was crap. GPSResults showed a few spikey lines but no real tracks.
Edit: actually on closer examination, there are tracks, sort of. The problem is that there are big chunks of data where instead of data every second, the data is every other second or every third second, or even bigger missing segments. And we looked at five different sailing sessions.

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bartontb said..
That is what we did. GPX data was crap. GPSResults showed a few spikey lines but no real tracks.

I have a vivoactive 3 (late 2017 release with latest firmware) and just started using it for windsurfing. I was able to get the FIT files from connect using the method above (ona windows machine) and load into KA72.

One thing I did notice, is the first time I used it I was in a rush, so I did not have anything setup for a windsurfing activity so just used the Run profile. I had it setup as smart recording. Strava and Connect both reported I sailed 50kms. KA72 reported 30kms and no Alpha. I have since change the setup to an activity based on SUP with GPS set to 1 second recording and everything appears to be working as expected now.

I will say that I do not recommend a touch screen watch as the best choice for windsurfing. The touch screen gets spray on it and makes changes while sailing. I have since learned to set the device up and start the activity and then lock the screen before entering the water. This works OK, but prevents does mean the device can only display what was setup once sailing, and sometimes a padlock symbol comes up over what you want to read on the screen.

I like my VA3, but the touchscreen implementation can be a pain whenever water is involved... and given it is a sports watch, this can be fairly often. I often find setting change when I have a shower... and when I use it for a swim it can be a pain to even start the activity once in the pool.

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bartontb said..

Boston! said..

bartontb said..

segler said..
Yes, a couple-three years ago, Garmin upgraded the FIT format from version 1 to version 2. Unless you can use and read the FIT SDK (I can't) there is no way to know what they changed. If your upload does not process correctly, you can (take the extra steps--ugh) run your FIT file through GPSBabel 1.6.0, Garmin Basecamp, Garmin Connect, or gpsies.com (but not Garmin Training Center) to convert FIT v2 files to GPX, then upload your GPX.

We can ask KA72 and GPSResults to update their software to read and process FIT v2 as well as v1. Since they already write software, they should be able to use the FIT SDK.

Thank you for the update on Garmin FIT. You verified what I suspected about a version change. Last night I sent emails to both Dylan and Manfred asking if it would be possible for them to update their SW. No response yet.

On the Garmin Connect website, it is possible to have Garmin convert the files to GPX but apparently they don't know how to do it either :) . They can convert V1 files to GPX that can be read by GPSResults. Converting a V2 file to GPX results in complete garbage, at least as far as GPSResults is concerned. I haven't tried the other apps but will experiment for grins sake...

I've used the Garmin 235, Vivoactive 3 and Fenix 5 plus over the years and have never had trouble with using either KA72 or GPS Results when uploading as a GPX file. Never bothered with the Fit format.

Boston!, interesting. How did you get the GPX file. When we tried to use the GPX conversion on Garmin Connect, the file was basically unreadable by GPS Results and when submitted to KA72, KA72 had a max speed 10 knots (!!) faster than what the Garmin app was reporting.

Do you have it on 1 sec record?