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evets said...

My thoughts:

It may not be for sheep stations to some but to many I have met it is very serious. I think there is room for casual as well as fiercely competitive team members and to keep all involved I reckon numbers in any divisions that could change team positions should be verifiable: tracks should be able to be sent.

Zacery!
If it's not a PB or changing a team's position no-one gives a toss, but and it is a big butt if it does affect rankings then we have a problem because some people do take it more seriously than others.
Having the back-up simply sorts out any arguments, no question, end of story.

Ben has made a good decision & the whole thing just gets better & better.
Now Ben, start subby-ing out some of the work so you can have more fun

Most good days at The PiT, the Pit Crew meets at my place after the session and we download and print out our results. Its a nice team building activity and a great chance for a hot cuppa and a bit of BS. I think we have picked up the odd strange result and helped educate each other in track checking a bit.
A great thing if you can do it!

I am always happy to cast my eyes over anyones tracks at any time if you are not sure of your analysis or think you may have strange results.
Also happy to double check PB's for anyone who asks.

Also always happy to just help with how to analyse or use the programs. Just PM or email me.

I know there are others in the forum who do the same.

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Gaz45 said...

firiebob said...

Gaz45 said...

How about any PB's being checked by the team captain before posting.
This would put the onus back on the team to keep each other honest.

Thanks Gaz wait till I get my hands on you

I'm always happy to help my team (or anyone) but I'm not too keen on checking everyone's files all the time and posting, we are a big mob now, I'm only here for fun

Only files with PB's in them Firie.
Even with the team getting bigger we won't be getting PB's every session.

I was trying to make you feel like part of the team when your working and we're out at Green doing it hard.

Ocean Blue I don't know my PB's either until I post but there shouldn't be a problem with checking after you post and if you find an error you just edit your data.

from what i've seen from you two wow!pb's all the time

nebs - read the amendments/new rule and note failure to have data 'may result in a penalty being applied to your team'

without opening up a new can of worms, would it be best to have it simply left at 'your session will be removed'?

agree whole heartedly with the requirmenet for data, but the ad hoc implementation of what is an undefined term (penalty) is at some stage going to be put in the mix

if the proposed penalty is not set out, it could call in to question the decision maker if there is no uniformity of 'penalty' and from there we have an array of peoples opinions about whether it was just and equitable....and all ends in tears with a sailor or team possibly cracking the **s and leaving the comp.

if we know the rules and the rules are unambiguous, we cant complain later about being dealt the penalty. just need to know what the penalty is. my 2c.

stu

Good point Stu.

Once or twice in the past I've threatened a 20 point penalty, which in the yearly rankings is a drop in the ocean, but things were resolved in seconds!

Luckily we've never had to penalise a team, but you're right about spelling it out. The only thing to bear in mind is that there still needs to be a bit of umpires discretion about it...

Can you suggest a possible rewording of that section of the rules?

maybe we can amalgamate both responsibility and data verification rules.

in short if we are in agreement the responsibility rule should stay, then it’s a bit cruel to punish an entire team when its clear its an individuals, not the teams, responsibility. the team is punished anyway by not having the session count. the desired result of this responsibility is to alter an individuals conduct rather than driving a big dagger through the heart of a team when the focus of the challenge is on fun and (positive not devious) collaboration from each states sailors.

as others have said in this thread, they have chosen not to post previously when no data existed thus self imposing the particular punitive measure we are discussing. we don’t know how critical their session was to their teams success that month. but in reality a measure some seem to have already adopted and obviously would be keen to see uniformly implemented across the GTC.

here is my suggestion –

Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be accountable (and made to sail the rest of the season on a windsufer one design).

please feel free to amend
stu

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HRTSV said...



Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day.

That sounds good to me, it's enough

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HRTSV said...

maybe we can amalgamate both responsibility and data verification rules.

in short if we are in agreement the responsibility rule should stay, then it’s a bit cruel to punish an entire team when its clear its an individuals, not the teams, responsibility. the team is punished anyway by not having the session count. the desired result of this responsibility is to alter an individuals conduct rather than driving a big dagger through the heart of a team when the focus of the challenge is on fun and (positive not devious) collaboration from each states sailors.

as others have said in this thread, they have chosen not to post previously when no data existed thus self imposing the particular punitive measure we are discussing. we don’t know how critical their session was to their teams success that month. but in reality a measure some seem to have already adopted and obviously would be keen to see uniformly implemented across the GTC.

here is my suggestion –

Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be accountable (and made to sail the rest of the season on a windsufer one design).


please feel free to amend
stu

Sounds good, except I would add

With a flouro chest harness

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HRTSV said...

maybe we can amalgamate both responsibility and data verification rules.

in short if we are in agreement the responsibility rule should stay, then it’s a bit cruel to punish an entire team when its clear its an individuals, not the teams, responsibility. the team is punished anyway by not having the session count. the desired result of this responsibility is to alter an individuals conduct rather than driving a big dagger through the heart of a team when the focus of the challenge is on fun and (positive not devious) collaboration from each states sailors.

as others have said in this thread, they have chosen not to post previously when no data existed thus self imposing the particular punitive measure we are discussing. we don’t know how critical their session was to their teams success that month. but in reality a measure some seem to have already adopted and obviously would be keen to see uniformly implemented across the GTC.

here is my suggestion –

Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be accountable(and made to sail the rest of the season on a windsufer one design)(and made to go kitesurfing).
please feel free to amend
stu

The punishment wasnt strong enough lol

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OceanBlue64 said...

HRTSV said...

maybe we can amalgamate both responsibility and data verification rules.

in short if we are in agreement the responsibility rule should stay, then it’s a bit cruel to punish an entire team when its clear its an individuals, not the teams, responsibility. the team is punished anyway by not having the session count. the desired result of this responsibility is to alter an individuals conduct rather than driving a big dagger through the heart of a team when the focus of the challenge is on fun and (positive not devious) collaboration from each states sailors.

as others have said in this thread, they have chosen not to post previously when no data existed thus self imposing the particular punitive measure we are discussing. we don’t know how critical their session was to their teams success that month. but in reality a measure some seem to have already adopted and obviously would be keen to see uniformly implemented across the GTC.

here is my suggestion –

Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be accountable(and made to sail the rest of the season on a windsufer one design)(and made to go kitesurfing).
please feel free to amend
stu

The punishment wasnt strong enough lol

Kitesurfing is too severe a punishment - how about just tattooing 51 stars on the person's face.

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sausage said...

OceanBlue64 said...

HRTSV said...

maybe we can amalgamate both responsibility and data verification rules.

in short if we are in agreement the responsibility rule should stay, then it’s a bit cruel to punish an entire team when its clear its an individuals, not the teams, responsibility. the team is punished anyway by not having the session count. the desired result of this responsibility is to alter an individuals conduct rather than driving a big dagger through the heart of a team when the focus of the challenge is on fun and (positive not devious) collaboration from each states sailors.

as others have said in this thread, they have chosen not to post previously when no data existed thus self imposing the particular punitive measure we are discussing. we don’t know how critical their session was to their teams success that month. but in reality a measure some seem to have already adopted and obviously would be keen to see uniformly implemented across the GTC.

here is my suggestion –

Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be accountable(and made to sail the rest of the season on a windsufer one design)(and made to go kitesurfing).
please feel free to amend
stu

The punishment wasnt strong enough lol

Kitesurfing is too severe a punishment - how about just tattooing 51 stars on the person's face.

Nah lets go the whole hog and make them speed sail with an Ezzy

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Bender said...

sausage said...

OceanBlue64 said...

HRTSV said...

maybe we can amalgamate both responsibility and data verification rules.

in short if we are in agreement the responsibility rule should stay, then it’s a bit cruel to punish an entire team when its clear its an individuals, not the teams, responsibility. the team is punished anyway by not having the session count. the desired result of this responsibility is to alter an individuals conduct rather than driving a big dagger through the heart of a team when the focus of the challenge is on fun and (positive not devious) collaboration from each states sailors.

as others have said in this thread, they have chosen not to post previously when no data existed thus self imposing the particular punitive measure we are discussing. we don’t know how critical their session was to their teams success that month. but in reality a measure some seem to have already adopted and obviously would be keen to see uniformly implemented across the GTC.

here is my suggestion –

Responsibility for Data:
You are responsible for your own data and must be able to produce a data file for any session that you post. You must believe that you actually did a certain speed before you post that number, however you work it out. On occasion you may receive a request for this file (from a site administrator or your team captain only), no later than one month from your data being posted. Failure to produce this file will result in your session being omitted from your teams results for that day. This website works mostly by the honesty system, and if you aren't honest with your numbers, then you will be accountable(and made to sail the rest of the season on a windsufer one design)(and made to go kitesurfing).
please feel free to amend
stu

The punishment wasnt strong enough lol

Kitesurfing is too severe a punishment - how about just tattooing 51 stars on the person's face.

Nah lets go the whole hog and make them speed sail with an Ezzy

I know I say some truly stupid things regularly

But

Speed sail with an Ezzy????

Okay I might have been slightly severe in my previous punishment suggestion, so in fairness to the crime I suggest the following;

the full punishment for dishonestly entering session data on the GPSTC is to be hanged, drawn and quartered in that the guilty party would be:

1.Dragged to the place of execution.
2.Hanged by the neck for a short time or until almost dead (hanged).
3.Disembowelled and emasculated and the genitalia and entrails burned before the condemned's eyes (drawn)
4.The body divided into four parts, then beheaded (quartered).

That'll learn them.

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sausage said...

Okay I might have been slightly severe in my previous punishment suggestion, so in fairness to the crime I suggest the following;

the full punishment for dishonestly entering session data on the GPSTC is to be hanged, drawn and quartered in that the guilty party would be:

1.Dragged to the place of execution.
2.Hanged by the neck for a short time or until almost dead (hanged).
3.Disembowelled and emasculated and the genitalia and entrails burned before the condemned's eyes (drawn)
4.The body divided into four parts, then beheaded (quartered).

That'll learn them.

WoW...wouldn't it be easier just to take the battery out of their GPS

A public name and shame should be enough. Just list cheats on the main page. No one would like to be known as cheating a competition based on honesty.

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Mobydisc said...

A public name and shame should be enough. Just list cheats on the main page. No one would like to be known as cheating a competition based on honesty.

I think something like this would be to the detriment of the GPSTC especially if it was a genuine mistake.

Dont get too carried away with all the serious stuff. Lets keep this as a fun comp where the only real competition is with yourself.

Fair enough though there would be signs to tell the difference between making mistakes and attempting to cheat. Personally I really don't care what my results were, I enjoy keeping track of my sailing. However its pretty competitive for some.

Wasn't the original question about a way of verifying that doesn't look like an accusation?

At any given point, how about the team captain has to verify the fastest member of their team and another one decided at random?

Eg this week team captains have to verify fastest team member and fourth team member.

If team leader can't verify a time then team member is put on a yellow card and is checked the next time.

So you're either being checked because you're good, you're randomly selected or you cocked up last time.

Does sound a bit serious to be honest.

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Nah lets go the whole hog and make them speed sail with an Ezzy

I resemble that !