KA360 said...
What I am asking for is logical. I don't think that gives anyone the right to question and comment on my relationship with my son and daughter.

Sausage, you have no clue. Just because I have given up my windsurfing time and bothered to help my son AND a lot of other children learn to love windsurfing or because I care about speaking up on behalf of those who don't have a voice of their own, does not mean that I am living a vicarious relationship. {NOTE: I just noticed that Sausage has edited his post and removed the comment accusing me of living vicariously through my children, so my comment here will not make sense to those who didn't see it.}

You don't know me but, if you did, you would see that your comments reflect more your own issues. Sick_em_rex and Sausage, I would love to hear from your experiences in teaching your children to windsurf what their views are on the current age divisions (aren't they of relevant ages for this discussion).

I am fanatical about windsurfing and I think it's one of the greatest gifts a parent can give their children. I have never cared about Alex being number 1 but about whether he enjoys himself. I love seeing all children have fun on the water. People that know me, know that I do not push the kids to do anything they are not happy with and that I give up a lot of my time and money to help other people's children improve too.

More people should be less selfish and spend some of their precious "me" time with their children. And if they find that is very rewarding for them, then in my opinion, we should be applauding that and not having a go.

Just to set the record straight, enquiring about what has been decided and if and when changes are going to be made does not mean that I don't appreciate what the committee has done or that they are busy. I am just asking because there was nothing posted and I wondered what the result of the discussion on this thread had been.

Secondly, we like being in a team. The kids on our team love being on the same team. If you saw them sailing together you would appreciate just how good it is for them and how much fun they really have. We are happy with the GPSTC and are not asking for anything more than everyone else already has.

The GPSTC currently has individual rankings and I haven't heard anyone previously say that is against the spirit of the GPSTC. If you don't think that individual rankings belong in GPSTC, then take them off!!! I can't see why discussing where the appropriate age divisions should lie gives you license to tell me to go to GPSSS.

kato said..



Where can you buy and cuddle and a coffee

nebbian said..

The ages filter has now been implemented.

For example, you can now tell that the fastest 30 year old, in March 2008, was... ME!!!!

http://www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/rankings/individual?country=&year=2008&month=03&state=&team=&age_division=&min_age=30&max_age=30&gender=

Eat my shorts, mkseven


Thanks to KA360 for the suggestions, and to the current committee for doing such an awesome job

nebbian said...
The ages filter has now been implemented.

For example, you can now tell that the fastest 30 year old, in March 2008, was... ME!!!!

http://www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/rankings/individual?country=&year=2008&month=03&state=&team=&age_division=&min_age=30&max_age=30&gender=

Eat my shorts, mkseven


Thanks to KA360 for the suggestions, and to the current committee for doing such an awesome job

KA360 said..



With all due respect, I think that maybe YOU are losing sight of what the GPSTC is all about.

No one is preventing you from having fun or improving your own PBs. And you are perfectly at liberty to not take any notice of your individual or team ranking and to make sure that you don't brag. I do wonder though, why you would even consider being part of the GPSTC since you could do all that just by using a GPS and keeping your own private record of your PBs and never posting.

As the GPSTC has been set up though it is very obviously competitive. It has rankings for teams, countries and individuals. All the scores are posted. If you were right, there would be no teams, no overall or annual rankings and no categories for gender or age.

I don't really think we need to have a discussion about whether the GPSTC concept is justified. In any case, the beauty of the GPSTC is that it has many attractive aspects and appeals to different people for different reasons. I like the team atmosphere it encourages, the ability to track your own progress over time and that it allows you to gauge your performance against others.

Anyway, since we have various categories and divisions, I feel that we should attempt to ensure they are useful and meaningful. Would anyone question whether there should be a separate gender division? Of course not! I am only using the same reasoning to request appropriate age divisions too.

Do school athletics, swimming or children's team sports have primary school children competing against those in Year 12? NO! In fact in all of these sports the division is usually on a yearly age category.

I have a lot of experience with children and the GPSTC and I believe I understand what motivates them. I note that your children do not compete in the GPSTC. THE GPSTC is one of many tools that I have found useful in motivating children to improve their windsurfing skills. Healthy competition is a valid and significant motivator. In 2013, my team (the Gustbusters) had 5 children in the Kiddies category. There are more joining over the next few weeks. This is half of the total children in this age division. They have enjoyed seeing their scores, PBs and rankings. One of them has been sailing for less than 2 months and worked his way up to 3rd overall last year.

It has also been great fun for my son Alex in the last couple of years to have someone to compete against (in his case a boy in the UK). The overall lead changed 12 times in December 2012 when the boys were battling it out. This year again, it was neck and neck to the last days of the year. I wonder if the boys would have pushed themselves as much if there was no competition. I believe the competition has been excellent for both the boys and they have undoubtedly become better sailors for it. Next year, when these boys go into the next age division (currently 13-18 year olds), will they try as hard when they are battling for 60th place and it is clearly unattainable to reach a high level? The difference between a 13 year old (40kg) and an 18 year old (adult size) is more than the difference between most males and females.

You have framed your opinion in such a way as to put down those who feel differently to yourself. You even suggest that they should leave the GPSTC and go to GPSSS! Well, if this issue is not addressed soon, that may well be what happens. They may also not bother with speed sailing at all! Personally, I don't think that's a good outcome. Just because the GPSTC has been working fine for years for you, it doesn't mean it doesn't ever need tweeking.

hardie said..









The genius of Nebbs must never be forgotten, maybe the most important ingredient in why the GPSTC works and is addictive

petermac33 said..

On Friday while sailing the river at Melville in 20-25 knots,watched Slowboat with a big sail of around 7m sail the west side (the flattest and shallowest) part of the sandbank. Risking life and limb to do so for what? Followed him a couple of times and sailing in a millpond just doesn't cut it for me! These GPS'ers sailing steep angles off the wind are a constant danger to sailors who choose to sail across the wind. Thanks to GPS,the social drag racing scene on the river is all but dead too.

Wood Duck said..

And Alkim stop being such a god damn "TROPHY HUNTER" !!!!

petermac33 said..
Thanks to GPS,the social drag racing scene on the river is all but dead too.

petermac33 said..

>>>> These GPS'ers sailing steep angles off the wind are a constant danger to sailors who choose to sail across the wind. Thanks to GPS,the social drag racing scene on the river is all but dead too.

KA360 said..

This is not golf. There is no money and no trophies in windsurfing. And, this is really none of your business. If you don't have children who windsurf in the GPSTC, then why is this such a big issue to you?

Why is it necessary to go through this much to add an age division or two? Why should we need to jump through so many hoops to get something so minor and basic?

nebbian said..

Sorry Akim, I thought the committee decided that the age filter was all that was required. Do we want another age category as well? What should it be called?

The technical reason why this isn't straightforward is that to speed up searches, the age category is saved with every session. If a new category is added (13-15 for example), then all the sessions that were in the previous 13-17 category that actually brlong in the new category need to be marked as such. This isn't a massive deal, I can write a script to do this, but it's not completely straightforward.

I hope this helps you understand

nebbian said..

Decrepit, note that the filters are inclusive: if you go 12-15, then 15-18 then you count 15 year olds twice.

Also note that you are probably counting the same kid twice if they have been a member for a couple of years and they are in the higher category. You might have to set the year to 2013 to get a good feel for how many kids are actually in the comp (which will still count the same kid twice if they turned 16 in 2013)

hardpole said..

Another idea - you will hate this one and its too much work - but should we be storing the age with the session as well as the "division". That would make it easy to add new divisions and also make the age "ranking" be correct as it would be the age when the session was recorded not the current age. (dont hate me too much )

Windxtasy said..

Good to hear that further age divisions are on the drawing board. Just to clarify the incentive that more divisions give:
When I first joined the GPSTC I just went out and sailed and was resigned to never scoring a bean for the team because I was so much slower than everyone else. I enjoyed the social side of being in a team, enjoyed the occasional PB and revelled in the achievements of my team mates. It wasn't until Lao's end of year report to the Pinnaroos where he said I'd finished 11th in the Aus ladies division that I realised there were divisions at all. But being 11th made me think, if I try a bit harder I could finish in the top 10. That was an desirable and achievable goal and it really made me push myself. That same year in the overall ranking I was 266/305. Not much incentive there, if you see my point. Similarly, scoring for the team regardless of effort seemed an impossibility.
Having achievable goals in smaller divisions has really made me push myself. In 2012 I finished 11th in the international division for ladies. Once again decided top 10 was achievable and pushed myself harder in 2013. A lot of my PB's were deliberate attempts to improve my ranking. I even bothered to really work hard on gybing for the first time. One of my PB's even scored me my very first jellybean!
If you think personal rankings aren't important in the GPSTC just look how many sailors scored PB's and top 5 scores in the last few days of December, especially in the hard work categories of Hr & distance. That wasn't just good wind - in WA at least, the conditions were not ideal - that was people doing their best to improve their personal ranking for the year.
So more divisions, especially for the kids. Make the top 10/top5 an achievable goal, and from there they will create their own momentum.

nebbian said..



You should be a database designer!

I actually had this thought when doing the age filters -- it would be much better to store the sailor's age along with the session, rather than the age division. I wish I'd thought of that back in 2007.

I'll probably be doing something like that at some stage.

petermac33 said..

On Friday while sailing the river at Melville in 20-25 knots,watched Slowboat with a big sail of around 7m sail the west side (the flattest and shallowest) part of the sandbank. Risking life and limb to do so for what? Followed him a couple of times and sailing in a millpond just doesn't cut it for me! These GPS'ers sailing steep angles off the wind are a constant danger to sailors who choose to sail across the wind. Thanks to GPS,the social drag racing scene on the river is all but dead too.