Just wanted to say a quick thanks to all the crew that helped facilitate the GPS Team Challenge this year. Thanks for adding some fun and bringing sailors together. Keep up the great work.

Merry Christmas,

PM

At the moment we're looking at the age divisions for next year. The feeling is that the junior division is spread over too many years, making it almost impossible for the younger juniors to compete.
Dave Morehead has come up with an interesting idea. Keep the standard divisions, but add a drop down box to select age.

I think the new GTC Committe needs to be congratulated for their fantastic work in 2013, the changeover was seamless, and the GTC has improved in many areas!!! I'm sittin back, less stressed enjoying windsurfing much more than I have for years, THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!

+1 for Hardie's comment.

Re the age divisions....Yeah, the Juniors have a point....their ages are spread over 4 or 5 years. What about the Legends? 60 to evermore. Could be 40 years. Do sailors in their 60s feel good that they may have competitors in their 80s?

I wish everybody to have a very happy festive season. Hope to see a lot of you all in 2014!!! LG...Lifes Good!!!

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hardie said..
I think the new GTC Committe needs to be congratulated for their fantastic work in 2013, the changeover was seamless, and the GTC has improved in many areas!!! I'm sittin back, less stressed enjoying windsurfing much more than I have for years, THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!

You call that windsurfing that you still do
Had to get that in before Elmo spotted your post.

Thanks also to the GPS management group, job well done

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decrepit said...
At the moment we're looking at the age divisions for next year. The feeling is that the junior division is spread over too many years, making it almost impossible for the younger juniors to compete.
Dave Morehead has come up with an interesting idea. Keep the standard divisions, but add a drop down box to select age.

I think that's a great idea of daves! I'd still have the same junior div. To show, so they have something to aim for and be able to set goals...but with Daves idea, allow them to choose their age and show rankings for their age and under ect.

Thanks also to Kazza and sick_em_rex for all the hard work with the t-shirts
Here's a few Pinnaroos in their team shirts.


Sorry about the picture quality. Left to right: geoff, Ricey, Windxtasy (captain), Snake, Lao Shi, paddymac and jnr, JJ, Mineral, Hardpole.

Merry Xmas to all and good winds for the New Year.

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lao shi said..

Thanks also to Kazza and sick_em_rex for all the hard work with the t-shirts
Here's a few Pinnaroos in their team shirts.


Sorry about the picture quality. Left to right: geoff, Ricey, Windxtasy (captain), Snake, Lao Shi, paddymac and jnr, JJ, Mineral, Hardpole.

Merry Xmas to all and good winds for the New Year.

Great to put some faces to the names.It would be great if each team posted something like this.

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izaak said..

decrepit said...
At the moment we're looking at the age divisions for next year. The feeling is that the junior division is spread over too many years, making it almost impossible for the younger juniors to compete.
Dave Morehead has come up with an interesting idea. Keep the standard divisions, but add a drop down box to select age.

I think that's a great idea of daves! I'd still have the same junior div. To show, so they have something to aim for and be able to set goals...but with Daves idea, allow them to choose their age and show rankings for their age and under ect.

Although the drop down box will be better than what we have, I don't see the point in keeping the junior division the way it is. The range includes 13 to 18 year olds and the physical differences between a 13 year old (around 35 kg) and an 18 year old (adult size) makes them like chalk and cheese.

There is actually nothing to aspire to for the younger windsurfers in that range. It is just very discouraging. I have been involved in teaching some beginner 12 year olds and it has been amazing to see them enjoying the GPSTC and looking at improving their ranking. I fear that they might not bother when they turn 13 and leave GPSTC for GPS Speedsurfing.com until they get old enough. GPS Speedsurfing have divisions for 0-10, 11-14 and 15-18. This looks a lot more sensible and we should probably try to achieve consistency so that those windsurfers who post via that website would have uniformity.

Having the division as it is doesn't give them more to aspire to or help them to set goals any more that looking at the adults.

Why have age divisions at all, if you cannot expect to be competitive within your age division?

Looking at all the Windsurfing competitions/events around the world and in Australia, there are usually divisions of 2 year intervals for the under 18s.

What type of ranking are you referring too? All time juniors? Or current year ranking junior? I get where your coming from and totally understand. I do think that the age bracket is a little big. What your saying, I think dad and i were saying our self's at the time haha Here is a bit more from my perspective.

When I first joined GPSTC, I was 13/14... Guys like Tim Stockton were posting awesome numbers like 39peaks ect. And Jet Ferguson was posting great all round numbers as well.

In the first year or so, yes I was down the rankings and thought I would never achieve their numbers. (and i am a very competitive person) But I stuck at it and I was getting closer and closer. At 15 I hit 37knots and thought it was doable. On the last day of the year, I managed a pb alpha and I hit the lead. This gave me so much courage/confidence, to chase down Tim's pb's in the all time rankings after he had left, the junior category. His numbers were the inspiration to go hard every session. I hope that the all time ranking still remains. As I know it was great for myself, Jordan and James to set and achieve goals. What also helped, was having James and Jordan, as we pushed one another!

It's great to see Alex getting his buddies keen and going well! It helps and make it so much fun with people your age. Although there is no better feeling than beating the older guys too on the day.

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Herbylyn said..

>>>>

Re the age divisions....Yeah, the Juniors have a point....their ages are spread over 4 or 5 years. What about the Legends? 60 to evermore. Could be 40 years. Do sailors in their 60s feel good that they may have competitors in their 80s?

I wish everybody to have a very happy festive season. Hope to see a lot of you all in 2014!!! LG...Lifes Good!!!

I'm with you on this herby, how about a 60-70 division, then an over 70s?

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sboardcrazy said..

lao shi said..

Thanks also to Kazza and sick_em_rex for all the hard work with the t-shirts
Here's a few Pinnaroos in their team shirts.


Sorry about the picture quality. Left to right: geoff, Ricey, Windxtasy (captain), Snake, Lao Shi, paddymac and jnr, JJ, Mineral, Hardpole.

Merry Xmas to all and good winds for the New Year.

Great to put some faces to the names.It would be great if each team posted something like this.

Dito

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lao shi said..

Thanks also to Kazza and sick_em_rex for all the hard work with the t-shirts
Here's a few Pinnaroos in their team shirts.


Sorry about the picture quality. Left to right: geoff, Ricey, Windxtasy (captain), Snake, Lao Shi, paddymac and jnr, JJ, Mineral, Hardpole.

Merry Xmas to all and good winds for the New Year.

Taken last Saturday evening at the Pinnaroos Pizza and Prize-giving Party, the Jelly bean awards.
The top speedsters were each given a bag of jellybeans of appropriate colours. Lao shi was top speedster with 42, JJ close second with 41 and Snake third. I thought my bag of one jellybean would look a bit pathetic, so every one else got a nice mixed bag of beans for effort and enthusiasm.

GPS Speedsurfing have divisions for 0-10, 11-14 and 15-18.

That seems sensible to me. Kiddies, Tweens and juniors.

I also agree that there is a big difference between the athletic ability of 60 and 70 year olds, and 70 and 80 year olds.
I suggest 60 - 69 legends
70 - 79 super legends
80 + inspirations!

Thanks also to the GPSTC organisers, I'm a newby, but do find it fun chasing PBs
On the age groups, there must be a large data set now that would lend itself to statistical analysis. If you pick the right parameter (I don't know - 70th percentile 2S etc.) then a distribution curve by age could be derived that would show where the natural breaks in performance are. This might be useful at the upper and lower ends of the age spectrum.
Then again, maybe I'm just over analysing it
Cheers
Rob/Stretch, SW Chapter

In regards to the 60+ bracket I think the 80yo,s need to just harden up and payout on those young sixtyish upstarts.

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Windxtasy said..

GPS Speedsurfing have divisions for 0-10, 11-14 and 15-18.

That seems sensible to me. Kiddies, Tweens and juniors.

I also agree that there is a big difference between the athletic ability of 60 and 70 year olds, and 70 and 80 year olds.
I suggest 60 - 69 legends
70 - 79 super legends
80 + inspirations!

The new year has started and it looks like no changes have been made to the age divisions for the juniors and seniors.

Is this a conscious decision to leave things as they are or is something happening soon?

I think you are losing sight of what the GPSTC is all about....forget about the age groups and just go and have fun and try to improve your own pb's. What does it matter where you are on a table? Are bragging rights that important for you???
I am NEVER going to lead my age group let alone probably even get into the top 100 of it, but I am in no way discouraged by that. To say that the current age classifications give younger sailors nothing to aspire to is completely ignoring what this challenge is about. It is about having fun and beating your own pb's. Maybe look at joining GPSSS if you want a more competitive environment.
This is an amateur website run by volunteers who are doing an awesome job. Let's just keep everything simple for them. It has been working fine for years......KISS.
Just my opinion.

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KA360 said..
>>>>

The new year has started and it looks like no changes have been made to the age divisions for the juniors and seniors.

Is this a conscious decision to leave things as they are or is something happening soon?

Well a lot of interesting ideas were put forward, and everybody said they'd go along with what the majority wanted, and that's about where it ended.

That's the problems with committees, if nobody has a vested interest in getting a result actioned, then quite often nothing happens.
The other problem is that Nebs is very busy, and we have no idea how long these changes are likely to take him.

So no, it's not a decision to leave things as they are, it's just floating at the moment.

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sick_em_rex said..

I think you are losing sight of what the GPSTC is all about....forget about the age groups and just go and have fun and try to improve your own pb's. What does it matter where you are on a table? Are bragging rights that important for you???
I am NEVER going to lead my age group let alone probably even get into the top 100 of it, but I am in no way discouraged by that. To say that the current age classifications give younger sailors nothing to aspire to is completely ignoring what this challenge is about. It is about having fun and beating your own pb's. Maybe look at joining GPSSS if you want a more competitive environment.
This is an amateur website run by volunteers who are doing an awesome job. Let's just keep everything simple for them. It has been working fine for years......KISS.
Just my opinion.

With all due respect, I think that maybe YOU are losing sight of what the GPSTC is all about.

No one is preventing you from having fun or improving your own PBs. And you are perfectly at liberty to not take any notice of your individual or team ranking and to make sure that you don't brag. I do wonder though, why you would even consider being part of the GPSTC since you could do all that just by using a GPS and keeping your own private record of your PBs and never posting.

As the GPSTC has been set up though it is very obviously competitive. It has rankings for teams, countries and individuals. All the scores are posted. If you were right, there would be no teams, no overall or annual rankings and no categories for gender or age.

I don't really think we need to have a discussion about whether the GPSTC concept is justified. In any case, the beauty of the GPSTC is that it has many attractive aspects and appeals to different people for different reasons. I like the team atmosphere it encourages, the ability to track your own progress over time and that it allows you to gauge your performance against others.

Anyway, since we have various categories and divisions, I feel that we should attempt to ensure they are useful and meaningful. Would anyone question whether there should be a separate gender division? Of course not! I am only using the same reasoning to request appropriate age divisions too.

Do school athletics, swimming or children's team sports have primary school children competing against those in Year 12? NO! In fact in all of these sports the division is usually on a yearly age category.

I have a lot of experience with children and the GPSTC and I believe I understand what motivates them. I note that your children do not compete in the GPSTC. THE GPSTC is one of many tools that I have found useful in motivating children to improve their windsurfing skills. Healthy competition is a valid and significant motivator. In 2013, my team (the Gustbusters) had 5 children in the Kiddies category. There are more joining over the next few weeks. This is half of the total children in this age division. They have enjoyed seeing their scores, PBs and rankings. One of them has been sailing for less than 2 months and worked his way up to 3rd overall last year.

It has also been great fun for my son Alex in the last couple of years to have someone to compete against (in his case a boy in the UK). The overall lead changed 12 times in December 2012 when the boys were battling it out. This year again, it was neck and neck to the last days of the year. I wonder if the boys would have pushed themselves as much if there was no competition. I believe the competition has been excellent for both the boys and they have undoubtedly become better sailors for it. Next year, when these boys go into the next age division (currently 13-18 year olds), will they try as hard when they are battling for 60th place and it is clearly unattainable to reach a high level? The difference between a 13 year old (40kg) and an 18 year old (adult size) is more than the difference between most males and females.

You have framed your opinion in such a way as to put down those who feel differently to yourself. You even suggest that they should leave the GPSTC and go to GPSSS! Well, if this issue is not addressed soon, that may well be what happens. They may also not bother with speed sailing at all! Personally, I don't think that's a good outcome. Just because the GPSTC has been working fine for years for you, it doesn't mean it doesn't ever need tweeking.

It is called the GPS TEAM Challenge, not the GPS INDIVIDUAL Challenge.
I'm not going to get into a diatribe publicly with you Akim. I think pretty much everyone knows your opinion and that's fine, you have your right to voice it. I think the court of public opinion will decide whether it is correct or not.
As for me, I'll be GPS sailing till my GPS dies or I do. Nothing you think about me or my motivation will ever stop that.
Anf if my opinion puts down all those that feel differently to me then I ask them to shoot me a PM so I can personally apologise to them.

I'm with you rexy.

At the end of the day, it's state vs state, team vs team and the rankings are there for fun..

I'm not trying to get into any argument here but when you say Alex and others will be battling it out for 60th place, when they enter juniors. Technically I would say no... Because if you were to put in some filters say, aus, 2013, juniors. And then lined up Alex's best pbs, he would've been top 5!! Then to top it off, if you went international, 2013, juniors, he is in top ten!!!

For me, that would be no where near discouraging. Seeing as it's a fierce comp in the international. Plus in amongst the Aussie juniors.

Keep up the good work kiddies and juniors!!

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decrepit said...

KA360 said..
>>>>

The new year has started and it looks like no changes have been made to the age divisions for the juniors and seniors.

Is this a conscious decision to leave things as they are or is something happening soon?

Well a lot of interesting ideas were put forward, and everybody said they'd go along with what the majority wanted, and that's about where it ended.

That's the problems with committees, if nobody has a vested interest in getting a result actioned, then quite often nothing happens.
The other problem is that Nebs is very busy, and we have no idea how long these changes are likely to take him.

So no, it's not a decision to leave things as they are, it's just floating at the moment.

Mike,
My understanding was that we agreed to implement an age filter with 2 year increments which allows everyone to put their age group in the rankings should they wish to see how they rank against their peers - this alone would facilitate KA360's requestfor him to search his son's age group and know if he was #1 in the world for 12 y.o.

I'm not quite sure if the filter has been implemented as yet but it doesn't really matter as you will be able to search specific age groups retrospectively.

Anyway I'm sure whatever happens it won't satisfy everybody.

If Alex and his dad wish to compete at an individual level then join the gpsss no teams there. There he can prove or disprove what ever you wish in a fun ranking.

We are a volunteer committee with lots of other things going on. BE PATIENT stuff will happen

What I am asking for is logical. I don't think that gives anyone the right to question and comment on my relationship with my son and daughter.

Sausage, you have no clue. Just because I have given up my windsurfing time and bothered to help my son AND a lot of other children learn to love windsurfing or because I care about speaking up on behalf of those who don't have a voice of their own, does not mean that I am living a vicarious relationship. {NOTE: I just noticed that Sausage has edited his post and removed the comment accusing me of living vicariously through my children, so my comment here will not make sense to those who didn't see it.}

You don't know me but, if you did, you would see that your comments reflect more your own issues. Sick_em_rex and Sausage, I would love to hear from your experiences in teaching your children to windsurf what their views are on the current age divisions (aren't they of relevant ages for this discussion).

I am fanatical about windsurfing and I think it's one of the greatest gifts a parent can give their children. I have never cared about Alex being number 1 but about whether he enjoys himself. I love seeing all children have fun on the water. People that know me, know that I do not push the kids to do anything they are not happy with and that I give up a lot of my time and money to help other people's children improve too.

More people should be less selfish and spend some of their precious "me" time with their children. And if they find that is very rewarding for them, then in my opinion, we should be applauding that and not having a go.

Just to set the record straight, enquiring about what has been decided and if and when changes are going to be made does not mean that I don't appreciate what the committee has done or that they are busy. I am just asking because there was nothing posted and I wondered what the result of the discussion on this thread had been.

Secondly, we like being in a team. The kids on our team love being on the same team. If you saw them sailing together you would appreciate just how good it is for them and how much fun they really have. We are happy with the GPSTC and are not asking for anything more than everyone else already has.

The GPSTC currently has individual rankings and I haven't heard anyone previously say that is against the spirit of the GPSTC. If you don't think that individual rankings belong in GPSTC, then take them off!!! I can't see why discussing where the appropriate age divisions should lie gives you license to tell me to go to GPSSS.

My 2c, if it's not hard to do then the extra age divisions would be nice, like what Anita put up. Even though it's a team thing there are still individual bragging rights going on, who cares how someone else looks at the stats. Mr Quick should be and would be proud to be the Legend champ of the world, awesome effort. FNQM have two over 70's and one over 80

And mobs of thanks to the committee, much appreciated, we should be both patient and thankful for the work they do

Hi to reiterate what has been mentioned above, the committee agreed to ask Nebbian, the developer of the GPSTC site whether it was feasible to have additional age filters. The response was that it is feasible.

As this work is completely voluntary, we cannot expect it to happen by a particular date. No date of completion was offered and none asked for. Please be patient. I for one tend to believe if its not broken, don't fix it. So I am quite conservative when it comes to proprosed changes. However these new age brackets should not negatively affect the Challenge as being there to create links and communication between windsurfers, building up windsurfing communities.

personal I don't think anyone in the gps challenge gives a dam about the kids , arkim is doing a great job with the kids down here at shanky point, he is teaching 4 kids at the moment and supplying all the gear and his time , young Rhys(ACTGUSTBUSTERS) has been sailing no more than 30 times and posts a PB or a full bag every time , and not a word of encouragement from members from any other individuals in the team challenge gpsteamchallenge.com.au/rankings/individual?country=&year=&month=&state=&team=&age_division=1&gender=

pics have been posted on the site with him jumping and mention of him mastering the helly tack and would you believe it not a mention of encouragement , not to mention 19th dec brooksy (ACTGUSTBUSTERS) posted 6 PB's with a 17.43 2sec and no more than 12 times on the water, and not a word of encouragement
there has been numerous times arkim has offered on this site to organize a kiddies weekend , I think there were a few replys like can you make it at hawks nest in a couple of week we have a formula weekend on, it would be a good opportunity for the kids to get on the water
what i'm getting at is, these kids aren't getting any encouragement from there mentors (as senior members)
lmao I have seen senior newbies post a PB 14knt 2 sec and a 15knt distance and get barrage of encouraging comments
I will understand the red thumbs on this post , it's probably from the guilty formula guys with young kids

I started typing my last post after Kato but got sidetracked buy a cuddle and a coffee, I was responding to Herbs idea and Anita's suggestion.

FNQM's having BBQ this arvo for Hoppy Bob's 73'rd birthday, I'll have a Coopers for all of you

Oh in 12 months or so I'll be a Legend, look out Mr Quick Herb, I'll be gunning for you

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firiebob said..

I started typing my last post after Kato but got sidetracked buy a cuddle and a coffee, I was responding to Herbs idea and Anita's suggestion.

FNQM's having BBQ this arvo for Hoppy Bob's 73'rd birthday, I'll have a Coopers for all of you

Oh in 12 months or so I'll be a Legend, look out Mr Quick Herb, I'll be gunning for you

Where can you buy and cuddle and a coffee