Select to expand quote

sailquik said..
Fast is in the hands of the holder.

And that's it dead set Master Quick
+1 Adriano
++1 Elmo

Select to expand quote

John340 said...
To consistently achieve speeds in excess of 30kts you need to
1. bear off the wind to angles approaching 140 degrees and
2. sail in overpowered conditions

No-cam (RAF) sails loose too much power in these sailing angles and are too much of a handful when overpowered going to windward back to the top of the speed run. 4 and 3 cam race and freerace sails with adjustable outhauls are the go. EG KA Race (4 cam) and KA Concept (3 cam), Severne Reflex (4 cam) and Severne Overdrive (3 cam).

What??? It's 30 knots not 40. I can consistently sit on 30 all day on big waveboards with wavesails, no adjustable outhaul, single straps & wave fins in the chop on the right angles. Look at Simon F & Peter in BCB who consistently see 35 knots in open water on no cam noa's or ncx's, gybe with ease then kick a$$ back upwind of all but a few.

It's all about balance of the entire setup not just the sail, Im not lacking drive or stability going upwind on wavesail. I wash off chunks of speed due to wave fin that is inefficient at that aoa, soft rails & super wide stance that lets alot of wetted area on tighter angles. The extra drag can create instability especially if dont get rig entirely right but the no cams arent too bad, much better than used to be- I cant remember the last time I got backwinded but 20 years ago would easy see that on no-3 cam sails.

If you match like gear ie nice no cam sail with freerace fin with performance freeride board most wont even come close to the speed potential of that setup, they might get 90% of it which imo is better than not getting a full slalom board/sail out of first gear. The first step in getting that performance is rigging the right size sail for the conditions, once wind hits 18 knots i am consistently on 0.8-1.6m smaller no cam vs race sail- smaller sail less drag, better tension, power directed in right place, much easier to use. If you use 7m no cam in 25 knots cause all the race sail guys are using 7's then yes you are going to suffer & see all those bad things they say.

So dont just look at sail it's the whole setup, fast people are fast no matter the kit or conditions because they are good at getting the balance right, the top 5% of sailors will notice the actual speed difference in gear & see eachothers speed change if something is or isnt working. Not being rude but if it's 18+ knots, not overly choppy & you are struggling to see 30 knots out of your full on slalom kit then you are making your sailing hard & on the wrong kit. It's good practice & you learn in trying to match the pace of guys on full slalom kit on not full on kit.

Select to expand quote

mkseven said..

John340 said...
To consistently achieve speeds in excess of 30kts you need to
1. bear off the wind to angles approaching 140 degrees and
2. sail in overpowered conditions

No-cam (RAF) sails loose too much power in these sailing angles and are too much of a handful when overpowered going to windward back to the top of the speed run. 4 and 3 cam race and freerace sails with adjustable outhauls are the go. EG KA Race (4 cam) and KA Concept (3 cam), Severne Reflex (4 cam) and Severne Overdrive (3 cam).

What??? It's 30 knots not 40. I can consistently sit on 30 all day on big waveboards with wavesails, no adjustable outhaul, single straps & wave fins in the chop on the right angles. Look at Simon F & Peter in BCB who consistently see 35 knots in open water on no cam noa's or ncx's, gybe with ease then kick a$$ back upwind of all but a few.

Seems a bit odd when only two sailors in the world (no doubt on full go fast kit) have manage to do 30knots for just an hour

I didnt say I or anyone else was sitting on 30+ the whole time. & gpstc is not the world

I didnt realise that I had to play obvious as apparently "all day" speeds now include gybes & runs back upwind as that's what people refer to when discussing speeds. To me it just shows who doesnt read past the first line or want to understand.

I'm not involved & staying out of the data crap & the two sailors I mentioned werent involved with that either afaik. It's interesting to see that no matter the teams achievement that some always question the result.

I've never said to anyone that im fast, I dont have delusions as to how good I am supposed to be, I havnt broken 40 knots so not fast at all. I was pointing out not much has to change to get 30 knots on not full on kit, you dont have use cams or flat water only or really far off the wind so you spend 3/4 of the day pushing hard back upwind. Since im not that good it should be also be easy for everyone.

If start aiming at 40's everything John said is right. But even away from Sandy & LG there are quite a few guys pushing mid-high 30s on easy kit.

& backwinded actually a week or two ago but that was on slalom kit in gusty swingy lake as opposed to the old get to certain speed backwinded.

Select to expand quote

cowudders said..
BCB.....is there a working approved gps anywhere on that team or are they all just using homemade ones.....no team has had more data questioned and removed than the mighty bcb....fact
mkseven....you weren't that good at best hobbie good....but still who cares. ...anything achieved on that team comes with a slight....they did it to themselves.....fact

It was stated up front that GPS-Speedsurfing an GPS Team Challenge would only allow approved devices.

Please just stop whinging. If you dont like the game, go play somewhere else. If you want to play with everyone else, stop being a sour-puss.

Select to expand quote

mkseven said..

John340 said...
To consistently achieve speeds in excess of 30kts you need to
1. bear off the wind to angles approaching 140 degrees and
2. sail in overpowered conditions

No-cam (RAF) sails loose too much power in these sailing angles and are too much of a handful when overpowered going to windward back to the top of the speed run. 4 and 3 cam race and freerace sails with adjustable outhauls are the go. EG KA Race (4 cam) and KA Concept (3 cam), Severne Reflex (4 cam) and Severne Overdrive (3 cam).

What??? It's 30 knots not 40. I can consistently sit on 30 all day on big waveboards with wavesails, no adjustable outhaul, single straps & wave fins in the chop on the right angles. Look at Simon F & Peter in BCB who consistently see 35 knots in open water on no cam noa's or ncx's, gybe with ease then kick a$$ back upwind of all but a few.

It's all about balance of the entire setup not just the sail, Im not lacking drive or stability going upwind on wavesail. I wash off chunks of speed due to wave fin that is inefficient at that aoa, soft rails & super wide stance that lets alot of wetted area on tighter angles. The extra drag can create instability especially if dont get rig entirely right but the no cams arent too bad, much better than used to be- I cant remember the last time I got backwinded but 20 years ago would easy see that on no-3 cam sails.

If you match like gear ie nice no cam sail with freerace fin with performance freeride board most wont even come close to the speed potential of that setup, they might get 90% of it which imo is better than not getting a full slalom board/sail out of first gear. The first step in getting that performance is rigging the right size sail for the conditions, once wind hits 18 knots i am consistently on 0.8-1.6m smaller no cam vs race sail- smaller sail less drag, better tension, power directed in right place, much easier to use. If you use 7m no cam in 25 knots cause all the race sail guys are using 7's then yes you are going to suffer & see all those bad things they say.

So dont just look at sail it's the whole setup, fast people are fast no matter the kit or conditions because they are good at getting the balance right, the top 5% of sailors will notice the actual speed difference in gear & see eachothers speed change if something is or isnt working. Not being rude but if it's 18+ knots, not overly choppy & you are struggling to see 30 knots out of your full on slalom kit then you are making your sailing hard & on the wrong kit. It's good practice & you learn in trying to match the pace of guys on full slalom kit on not full on kit.

Mark,

I don't have a problem with anything you are saying, good sailors like Fyfe and Cockypeter using RAF sails on freerace boards achieve 35kts. However, in the same conditions other good sailors from the same team i.e. Steve, Simon (one board, one sail), Ian using 4 Cam sailors on slalom boards are going faster

Select to expand quote

BSN101 said..
What about some Severne NCX, Unit speeds?

My best session on a 5.5 NCX (paired with a speed board):

39.45 2sec peak also at Lake George - this session i was slower with my5.0 koncept.
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2014-03-01&team=48

Regularly can get 35's & 36's with my 6.5NCX on my iSonic 86slim just blasting around, fastest I've had my 6.5 is mid 38's. I love my NCX's, I only own 1 cammed sail - a 5.0 for when its nuking and I'm pure speed sailing.

Google away and you will find that NCX's, Lions and Huckers have all gone 40+ Probably other no cams also. That's plenty quick

Whats really the definition of fast anyway? 40knts on a dead flat speed track with perfect conditions or 25-30knts in open water with chop and swells etc.

I haven't done 40knts ( that I know of!) but 28knts out at sea feels 10times faster that 34knt in flat water to me, and I know which one is harder to maintain.
The other 'fast' barometer for me is 1hr speeds, that 30knt mark seems near impossible, even 25 is super hard to achieve. Someone may know the facts on it, but my gut feeling suspects way more people have cracked 40knts for 2 seconds than 25knts for an hour?

^ well if that's your measure...
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2014-02-28&team=48
26.29 kt hr on 6.5 NCX

Select to expand quote

DanP said..

BSN101 said..
What about some Severne NCX, Unit speeds?

My best session on a 5.5 NCX (paired with a speed board):

39.45 2sec peak also at Lake George - this session i was slower with my5.0 koncept.
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2014-03-01&team=48

Regularly can get 35's & 36's with my 6.5NCX on my iSonic 86slim just blasting around, fastest I've had my 6.5 is mid 38's. I love my NCX's, I only own 1 cammed sail - a 5.0 for when its nuking and I'm pure speed sailing.

Thats better! Non camed speed numbers.

Anyone sail a Severne Unit with a GPS on their arm? How about sharing some details?

Any Hornet/ hellcat speeds? They must be up there with the NCX & Cheetas & Lions

Select to expand quote

DanP said..

BSN101 said..
What about some Severne NCX, Unit speeds?

My best session on a 5.5 NCX (paired with a speed board):

39.45 2sec peak also at Lake George - this session i was slower with my5.0 koncept.
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2014-03-01&team=48

Regularly can get 35's & 36's with my 6.5NCX on my iSonic 86slim just blasting around, fastest I've had my 6.5 is mid 38's. I love my NCX's, I only own 1 cammed sail - a 5.0 for when its nuking and I'm pure speed sailing.

Great effort Dan ! And 125.89kms to boot

Select to expand quote

DanP said...
^ well if that's your measure...
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2014-02-28&team=48
26.29 kt hr on 6.5 NCX

Yep that's flying! Great speeds, and a great add for ncx and no cams!

Great results DanP!! You are giving me inspiration to try and flog Dave (BSN101) very soon! My new 6.5 NCX and 87 Isonic are the means... now I just need the right wind! not far away I think! Keep up the great results :)

I have NP Hellcats 2017 5.7 & 6.7 on the way, due Sept.

I hope to be trading/selling my Rydes and taking them to exmouth.

I will post when i have had a bit of fun on them.

Keep trying BSN0! Your kit of NCXs look great!

Severne NCX 6.5 2016 @ 38 knots on a Tabou Speedster 100 litre 2016 with UFO fin 24/50° love Freeride

Awesome speeds achieved!

Amazing that a 6.5 Freeride goes that fast.

I hope BSN0 doesn't see this!!

now that's just showing off Nudist !!!!

nice one !!

Seanhogan believe me that this kit has more potential, I went out to do PB's on my Klms and try to work out the Alpha and then BANG topend speed...I'm just super comfortable on it doesn't matter if Im on my NCX sail or when I was on my OD R6.... I'm still super stoked. Just cant wait to come over to NC in November. And just have fun with you guys and the team...

Select to expand quote

BSN101 said..
Awesome speeds achieved!

Amazing that a 6.5 Freeride goes that fast.

I hope BSN0 doesn't see this!!

They only go this fast in NSW Dave. You need to come over!

In november you're going to raise the bar speedwise on Anse Vata beach!!

That's going to ruin my score on ka72 !!!


Looking forward to meeting the team then.

90% of the sails on the market can be as fast as any non speed trial's specialist can go.
Just have to be correctly powered, on fast kit, and able to drive it.
Even a Hot Superfreak can be fast when it's well powered, on the edge, with a good pilot, fast board, and everything balanced.
You can go big, huge slalom sail overdownhauled, or you can go small, underdownhauled and loose outhaul, the criteria for speed is being correctly well powered on fast kit, and the skill to make it go fast.

Hey, I got that exact board, only my rear strap is forward of all the way back by one hole.
Don't have anyone around to match speeds with, here in Berkeley Ca. USA, the fast guys in Maui or foiling riding exclusively.

New sails have arrived and I hope to test one out tomorrow. New 400/100% mast too
6.7 & 5.7 2017 Hellcats
[/img

Sweet looking sails Dave, hope you really enjoy them.

Select to expand quote

ka43 said..
Sweet looking sails Dave, hope you really enjoy them.

I already do mate and they have only felt the rain so far. I promise to make them real wet when they go out, seaweed too!

Nice looking sails buddy! Hope you get some wind now

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
90% of the sails on the market can be as fast as any non speed trial's specialist can go.
Just have to be correctly powered, on fast kit, and able to drive it.
Even a Hot Superfreak can be fast when it's well powered, on the edge, with a good pilot, fast board, and everything balanced.
You can go big, huge slalom sail overdownhauled, or you can go small, underdownhauled and loose outhaul, the criteria for speed is being correctly well powered on fast kit, and the skill to make it go fast.

just... no.

There are many thousands of data-uploads to gps-speedsurfing or the data from gps-teamchallenge, that proves that statement pretty much entirely wrong.

Select to expand quote

seanhogan said..
In november you're going to raise the bar speedwise on Anse Vata beach!!

That's going to ruin my score on ka72 !!!


Looking forward to meeting the team then.

...maybe not, after sailing flat water all winter?

Select to expand quote

Tony Wills said..
Nice looking sails buddy! Hope you get some wind now

We had too much!! go figure, all I wanted was 20-25 and we got some smelly shorts times.

This weekend I'm now hoping.