Have been doing a lot of reading, discussing etc into ways of improving speed in general sailing conditions... you know, 15-20kts, choppy water, on slalom board and race sails. When one friend said he had just worked out he had quite a few thousand dollars in fins, I wondered if purchasing a set of 'expert' fins would bring 'instant noticeable improvement' in speed. I have found these three brands highly accomplished on the world stage-
www.ifins.eu
zfins.eu
ailerons-gasoil.com
... with the iFins Nano costing over $800aud in the larger slalom sizes, the question is, "Would the one-off purchase of these fins be a true investment in performance and enjoyment over many years?" (A friend with zfins says 'yes'.)
Anyone with experience on these like to share your wisdom please.

Im certainly no guru,but changing from G10 fins in larger sizes to Carbon S1 Pros was noticable to me. The S1s felt like they werent there (less drag) but gave much better control n top speed. About $200-300.
As you say itd be great to know just how much extra can be found by spending big.

Good question Mike. I used to use Venoms then changed to Drake DWs which are very useable not sure if fast though. I also had a Select S1 which felt similar. Whats the current go to fin for GPS or fast freeride for general choppy conditions?

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mikey100 said..
Have been doing a lot of reading, discussing etc into ways of improving speed in general sailing conditions... you know, 15-20kts, choppy water, on slalom board and race sails. When one friend said he had just worked out he had quite a few thousand dollars in fins, I wondered if purchasing a set of 'expert' fins would bring 'instant noticeable improvement' in speed. I have found these three brands highly accomplished on the world stage-
www.ifins.eu
zfins.eu
ailerons-gasoil.com
... with the iFins Nano costing over $800aud in the larger slalom sizes, the question is, "Would the one-off purchase of these fins be a true investment in performance and enjoyment over many years?" (A friend with zfins says 'yes'.)
Anyone with experience on these like to share your wisdom please.

Carbon fins and Moreton Bay coffee rock don't mix.

In my area (Lake Macquarie) the Select Vmax fins are very popular. I think the current model is V4 but the V3 is also highly regarded.
The fastest guys around here use them (And I do too). They are about $300-$350. Fins costing twice this, may be marginally quicker but not
in my opinion not enough to justify the cost.

Some locals have tried the Zfins and have said how marvelous they are. Did it turn them into the fastest guys around? No.

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mikey100 said..

... with the iFins Nano costing over $800aud in the larger slalom sizes, the question is, "Would the one-off purchase of these fins be a true investment in performance and enjoyment over many years?" (A friend with zfins says 'yes'.)
Anyone with experience on these like to share your wisdom please.

At $800 it'd have to be ****ing spectacular, given how many other fins are out there that qualify as good for around half that price (or less).

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Subsonic said..

mikey100 said..

... with the iFins Nano costing over $800aud in the larger slalom sizes, the question is, "Would the one-off purchase of these fins be a true investment in performance and enjoyment over many years?" (A friend with zfins says 'yes'.)
Anyone with experience on these like to share your wisdom please.

At $800 it'd have to be ****ing spectacular, given how many other fins are out there that qualify as good for around half that price (or less).

And that's my point... is it more economic in the long run to drop 3-4k on a set of iFin Nanos or another top fin and never buy another fin?
was shocked at the total retail I have spent on fins in my kit.

Does anyone on this forum use iFins or Gasoil fins and can share their input?

Human nature: When someone pays a lot of money for something that is touted to be 'great', they dont want to admit to themselves that it is no better than the other stuff. Placebo effect.

Fin design is so refined now that there is so little difference between fins in the same category that those differences become insignificant on their own.

It is far more significant and advantageous to find a fin, board and rig combination that suits your particular situation. Venue, wind conditions, water conditions, personal style of sailing preferences. etc. Some boards just like some fins and not others, no matter how expensive or 'high tech' they are. Tuning your sail and rig can greatly affect how your fin behaves. The list goes on.

The 'fastest fin' does not exist. What is best for you, or fastest for you, changes evry time the conditions and your equipment changes, and even with your metal outlook.

There are practical considerations and limitations like, weed, shallowness, sand or rocky bottom and potential to wreck the fin, the particular character of the shop, waves ot lack thereof where you sail, etc, and of course the cost of a fin. The latter is a very real consideration because it can facilitate or limit your ability to try different fins and combinations to find the best setup in constantly changing and evolving circumstances.

Horses for courses.

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sailquik said..
Human nature: When someone pays a lot of money for something that is touted to be 'great', they dont want to admit to themselves that it is no better than the other stuff. Placebo effect.

Fin design is so refined now that there is so little difference between fins in the same category that those differences become insignificant on their own.

It is far more significant and advantageous to find a fin, board and rig combination that suits your particular situation. Venue, wind conditions, water conditions, personal style of sailing preferences. etc. Some boards just like some fins and not others, no matter how expensive or 'high tech' they are. Tuning your sail and rig can greatly affect how your fin behaves. The list goes on.

The 'fastest fin' does not exist. What is best for you, or fastest for you, changes evry time the conditions and your equipment changes, and even with your metal outlook.

There are practical considerations and limitations like, weed, shallowness, sand or rocky bottom and potential to wreck the fin, the particular character of the shop, waves ot lack thereof where you sail, etc, and of course the cost of a fin. The latter is a very real consideration because it can facilitate or limit your ability to try different fins and combinations to find the best setup in constantly changing and evolving circumstances.

Horses for courses.

Tnx for the input Daffy. Some mates swear they can feel the difference in their expensive carbon fins ver their g10 ones, and their results often reflect this. I have some small Tribal Speed, which I swear by and I feel give me faster results. Love them !Would be interesting to compare the longer Tribal Speed ver Tribal Slalom in the same length for differences.

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bayside inc said..

sailquik said..
Human nature: When someone pays a lot of money for something that is touted to be 'great', they dont want to admit to themselves that it is no better than the other stuff. Placebo effect.

Fin design is so refined now that there is so little difference between fins in the same category that those differences become insignificant on their own.

It is far more significant and advantageous to find a fin, board and rig combination that suits your particular situation. Venue, wind conditions, water conditions, personal style of sailing preferences. etc. Some boards just like some fins and not others, no matter how expensive or 'high tech' they are. Tuning your sail and rig can greatly affect how your fin behaves. The list goes on.

The 'fastest fin' does not exist. What is best for you, or fastest for you, changes evry time the conditions and your equipment changes, and even with your metal outlook.

There are practical considerations and limitations like, weed, shallowness, sand or rocky bottom and potential to wreck the fin, the particular character of the shop, waves ot lack thereof where you sail, etc, and of course the cost of a fin. The latter is a very real consideration because it can facilitate or limit your ability to try different fins and combinations to find the best setup in constantly changing and evolving circumstances.

Horses for courses.

Tnx for the input Daffy. Some mates swear they can feel the difference in their expensive carbon fins ver their g10 ones, and their results often reflect this. I have some small Tribal Speed, which I swear by and I feel give me faster results. Love them !Would be interesting to compare the longer Tribal Speed ver Tribal Slalom in the same length for differences.

You are welcome.

This is why lower priced fins are better. One can afford to try more of them to find what suits your particular circumstances.

Also remember that expectations and confidence can lead to faster. Another possible Placebo effect. But then, if you go faster, does it matter.

I have 4 carbon fins ,they have a nice feel to them ,i like the flex in 2 and then the other 2 have little and quite drivey ,,and give good lift and up wind capabilities ,are they faster than my G10 maui & tech slalom fins ,I Don't know ...its just a different feel ...but the next fin i buy will be a carbon .I would believe your friends test ... I like both .and still feel as fast on my cheaper G10 's

Your looking for a fin that gives you grip at all speeds. Fins are very personalised for each rider and condition but A carbon fin will give better grip than a g10 of the same size and design. allowing you to use a smaller fin ,which is less drag, which equals faster results. For speed sailing off the wind i look for smallest fin that i can get back up wind with. The difference between carbon and g10 is definitely more noticeable in the larger sizes.

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TRIMMER said..
Your looking for a fin that gives you grip at all speeds. Fins are very personalised for each rider and condition but A carbon fin will give better grip than a g10 of the same size and design. allowing you to use a smaller fin ,which is less drag, which equals faster results. For speed sailing off the wind i look for smallest fin that i can get back up wind with. The difference between carbon and g10 is definitely more noticeable in the larger sizes.

Yep. The difference between G10 and Carbon is one thing: Stiffnes. Stffnes in flex and to some extent flex pattern. That is why it has the potential to have some advantage in longer fins, flexible fins and heavily raked fins. There is little or less potential advantage in smaller sized fins under approximately 30-34cm, depending on their design.

Note I said POTENTIAL. A carbon fin will be no better if it is not very well designed and built. Likewise, G10 fins need to be designed to account for their material, and made with high accuracy.

if there is the same stiffnes and flex pattern, the same foil will have the same 'grip' in both types. The water doesnt know what it is made of.

For the conditions the OP stated, it is likely that you will be using fins larger than 34cm and so it is more likely you may be able to notice a difference in performance.

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sailquik said

if there is the same stiffnes and flex pattern, the same foil will have the same 'grip' in both types. The water doesnt know what it is made of.

Spot on. But the two materials are so different rarely is this the case. The two fins would look totally different to achieve the same result. Seriously My G10 BPRs n JP Supersports feel like im dragging a 12mm sheet of ply thru the water compared to the S1 Pros i use. 40cm + size.

Why would you even think about paying $800 for a carbon fin when you can buy a Tribal carbon for less than $500. You can argue with me when you post a speed faster than Slowboat. In smaller sizes you will go just as fast on a great G10 fin for less than $300.

Trimmer, would you like to show technical data to back up your statement and also explain to me what 'grip" is. When I run my fins in Xfoil and Java Foil there is no graph for 'grip"

Not often do I agree with Daffy, but this time yes

I used to run expensive fins before foiling, though my best were the lockwoods (not yet tribal)
a couple weeks ago I turn up at a shallow water spot (200 km from home), with my slalom gear only to realize I hadn't put back my box of fins in the van...
A friend lent me his drake R2R to help me out, I was a bit gutted as for me they are quite "standard".... next thing I was easily scoring 34/35 in bloody rough conditions and having a ball.

Too bad I totally ruined it on a coral bomb. Mate was cool with it as he only bought it for that spot which is fin hazard... He 's on chopper's/hurricanes etc..... usually, but he's a 40+ regular.

Trimmer, Re Grip. I really would like to understand what you mean. I use the term in relation to wave fins, they either grip in a hard turn or slide but I don't think that is what you are referring to?

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mr love said..
Trimmer, Re Grip. I really would like to understand what you mean. I use the term in relation to wave fins, they either grip in a hard turn or slide but I don't think that is what you are referring to?

Seriously, when i hold a fin in my hand and slap some smart know it all wannabe professor in the face with it. I look for the flex in it left to right and twist before I lose grip.

That was helpfull

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mr love said..
That was helpfull

I guess your skill in design is wasted on him. Looking forward to the new Atomic fins in my post box. The last lot have been awesome, best rough water fin . Lots of grip too

I understood trimmers comment on speed fins giving grip to mean that there's no spin out, the fin holds at all speeds, all water states. Not sure what technical data you could get for that, it's just the fin feeling secure isn't it?

My one experience with the purchase of an "A" grade fin was excellent. (Z SLM 35cm) It was forgiving and super responsive at the same time. Ease and speed! Changed my perspective on gear.

just on a light note ,where do plastic fins fit in ?

K4 , good fins by all accounts for wave sailing

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Tardy said..
just on a light note ,where do plastic fins fit in ?

In the bin?

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Tardy said..
just on a light note ,where do plastic fins fit in ?

Well, I guess that in theory, "Fiberglass, G10 and Carbon Epoxy matrix fins are 'Plastic'.

But, polycarbonate is plenty stiff enough for small wave board fins, and can be really cheap to manufacture.

Back on the early '80's, various tyoes of 'Plastic' fins were pretty much all we had, and many of them worked pretty well. We still had a LOT of fun. Of course, the new stiffer materials, with refined designs can go faster now, and it's even more fun.

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Te Hau said..

Tardy said..
just on a light note ,where do plastic fins fit in ?

In the bin?

ha ha ...right on .. for slalom anyway ..I remember those day sailquik ,,all the mistrals ,or most had plastic fins ...i knew no difference then .
I then brought a pro limit 36 glass fin ,for my mistral escape ,picked up about 5-10 knots in speed ...

K4 32 freeride....fast, smooth...until it spin out.
Tectonics Mirage and Phoenix...not bad.

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sailquik said..
Human nature: When someone pays a lot of money for something that is touted to be 'great', they dont want to admit to themselves that it is no better than the other stuff. Placebo effect.

Fin design is so refined now that there is so little difference between fins in the same category that those differences become insignificant on their own.

It is far more significant and advantageous to find a fin, board and rig combination that suits your particular situation. Venue, wind conditions, water conditions, personal style of sailing preferences. etc. Some boards just like some fins and not others, no matter how expensive or 'high tech' they are. Tuning your sail and rig can greatly affect how your fin behaves. The list goes on.

The 'fastest fin' does not exist. What is best for you, or fastest for you, changes evry time the conditions and your equipment changes, and even with your metal outlook.

There are practical considerations and limitations like, weed, shallowness, sand or rocky bottom and potential to wreck the fin, the particular character of the shop, waves ot lack thereof where you sail, etc, and of course the cost of a fin. The latter is a very real consideration because it can facilitate or limit your ability to try different fins and combinations to find the best setup in constantly changing and evolving circumstances.

Horses for courses.

Pretty much what I was going to say. All fins are damn good now. Just try as many out as possible. Some work better than others depending on riding style, ability and the other equipment paired with them.