Select to expand quote

Dezza said..
Hoping for a run down that west Kirby wall one day too, just need to watch out for the dogs

better dog that crab pots, jet skis, jet and speed boats, anglers with fishing lines across, turtles,stiging jelly, dolphin, few kiters and free style windsurfers, swimmers, plam leaf and trees branches sailing to the ocean,at least our water and air is warmer, whole year !

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..
Yep,. that wall wasn't engineered properly. Should be build to allow proper bear off like at L?deritz.When we build our own here is Australia, we may avoid such mistakes! But otherwise the wall looks lovely. Flat , not rocks like our Yambe. then with nice asphalt path way. Wind quality perfect - coming all the way from the sea, unobstructed. Looks like a depth is also reasonable. Ideally if water level is not tide related, so we cold do 24h distance on such smooth pathway.Lets imagine 10 km stretch like that !!

From what I have been told, it varies with the wind direction (like most other places). They do have days where the wind is the perfect angle for the whole run, but of course it gets rougher with more following chop then. If you were intimidated by the stop at the end of the run at Sandy Point, you would be shocked by the one at West Kirby. It is a rock wall!! It bends towards you and looks a lot more intimidating than the sand bank at Luderitz, but otherwise it is a very similar setup, just a lot shorter. and it is typically a LOT colder! Brrrrr.....

Ideal speed wind angle is around WNW.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

Macroscien said..
Yep,. that wall wasn't engineered properly. Should be build to allow proper bear off like at L?deritz.When we build our own here is Australia, we may avoid such mistakes! But otherwise the wall looks lovely. Flat , not rocks like our Yambe. then with nice asphalt path way. Wind quality perfect - coming all the way from the sea, unobstructed. Looks like a depth is also reasonable. Ideally if water level is not tide related, so we cold do 24h distance on such smooth pathway.Lets imagine 10 km stretch like that !!

From what I have been told, it varies with the wind direction (like most other places). They do have days where the wind is the perfect angle for the whole run, but of course it gets rougher with more following chop then. If you were intimidated by the stop at the end of the run at Sandy Point, you would be shocked by the one at West Kirby. It is a rock wall!! It bends towards you and looks a lot more intimidating than the sand bank at Luderitz, but otherwise it is a very similar setup, just a lot shorter. and it is typically a LOT colder! Brrrrr.....

Ideal speed wind angle is around WNW.

Got it now. The main straight run is 650m, need a good acceleration to get into speed

which is similar to our Train at GC, but ucomparale smoother and clear wind




and Sandy Point is at least twice to three time longer ( depending where do you sail) 1.5 to 2km ???


with Burrum toping the least 3.0 km run, but very tide dependent



and Lauderits 800m


Holly crap ! I can not believe that we could not find 1 km stretch of sandy beach in Australia to dig in.!
Nothing could be better the our own turf.
My own farm is few km long , with additional advantage that we could run vertically good 200m down the hill channel .


On another hand NZ has potential too ! Long , sandy beaches and plenty of wind from Tasman !!! But they will be last in the world to allow digging beaches. Unless Kiwi choose next prime minister wisely ( with windsurfing pedigree) .


82 km long!! One trip and back to my PB in distance, 2s on the way , nautical mile, and alha at the half end.!!!

The Sandy Pt run is less than half that long, but 500m runs are quite possible on the right wind direction. (Think Yellow Pages Endevour and Maquarrie Innovation)

Open ocean shores are usually far too rough with swell and waves, and dangerous in offshore winds.
e.g.: 90 mile beach in Gippsland. I briefly wondered if I could do a record 1hr on a single tack? But it's too gusty (shoreline wind shadow) and too rough, besides being too risky if something goes wrong.

They had a few attempts at running 500m courses at West Kirby in the '80's or '90's but I understand it was too short to work well.

Forget about ideas of building artificial courses and focus on finding and exploiting the natural courses. It requires some time and effort, but is far more practical than building. They are out there.

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..
ok here is nice piece of advice how to loose the velocity safely on the chop, while at high speed - part 3 - deceleration

.be&fbclid=IwAR1rUtuz4FdQWiJayFqLEFGGi-DFEfAePdzD-KPrlkJiV7wVR42f0HTZn1s

I've heard the term but I didn't really know how to do one....good video..Now we just need consistent strong wind with gusts that last long enough to put it into practise..
That's an amazing place where he is sailing.. Boy that chop at the end of the run looks nasty..

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

sailquik said..

Macroscien said..

sailquik said..
Thats pretty much exactly what I said but he used a LOT more words.

This is exactly what I did try on flat water at sandy point. Realeising completely sail wasn't working for me , because there was no chop to absorb energy and slow me down. Board was still going fast with sail neutral to wind.
Here is chop to slow down but I was following flat water along the bank.Simply sinking a tail of the boar at speeds above 30+ also isn't helping much to slow down.

The only way there was not some chop to 'help slow you down' was because to didn't go far enough around the curve to get to the ideal angle off the wind, and the best possible top speed. (This is very common among Sandy Point speed Newbies by the way. )

But IMHO, it's not the chop that slows you down much anyhow. It sounds like you just didn't stand up and sheet out enough, and also that you probably did not turn away from the bank to go broader for a few moments. If you completely release the power, there is no way you won't slow down fairly quickly. On most runs in less than Epic conditions (Epic = 35-40+ knots - 40 knots speeds are common in 28-33 knots of wind)), you will be going very close to, or faster than the wind speed at the end of your run. It is then very easy to lose power as when you turn a little more downwind, there will be almost no power in the rig. But it will come back a bit as you slow down, which is why you must sheet right out as you slow.

Really, it is just not that hard to do and not really that much of an issue. I'm sure if you came here again and were luckly enough to strike a good day, you would very quickly learn it.

You are absolutely right. At this speeds I didn't know completely where I am going to finish. could be open ocen or NZ even worse. Then sheeting out- make sense. All I did was rather neutral, free flapping -which did not slow board too much. You are right again. I am simply not used to such good conditions, everything was new. Need more practice. The closest comparison we have here is Burrum Heads, but so far never even close to SP.Maybe need to Europe one day for practice ? Look like those guys there don't need L?deritz to get nice 2s , ,miles and distance in comfortable civilized conditions. Cost wise Europe could be also much cheaper...
What do you think? Are you going to chase Hans Kreisel at La Franqui... or Kirby?

looks a bit cold ....

Love the facial expressions!

To me, the term 'Slingshot' has always been a puzzle to me. It's a catchy term, but it seems to imply that the turn downwind itself affords some sort of extra acceleration.

In reality, it is simply 'bearing away' . In less than nuclear winds it is an advantage to build speed at a closer reach before 'bearing away' as a means to build apparent wind. If you turn downwind too early going slowly, you will simply have not enough apparent wind and you will stall, or not get enough lift in the sail to maintain the best broad angle and speed. On the other hand, when the wind is really strong, one does not want to wind up too long and fast on a tight or beam reach, as the apparent wind gets too high and the rig and board are too hard to control. (As you get broader to around the 135 degrees off the wind angle, the apparent wind decreases and the power in the sail becomes more manageable) In this really strong wind situation is is best to have a short, tight-reach run-up and then bear away abruptly in a short round arc to the broad angle, to reduce the amount of apparent wind generated from reaching, as quickly as possible. In this maneuver, the acceleration is naturally, very rapid and intense. Perhaps this is what prompted the term 'Slingshot' as I guess it feels like you are getting shot from a slingshot? But there is no magic extra acceleration or speed gained, just more control and very rapid acceleration.

In some places this is just the only real option. A good example is the Easterly bank run at Sandy Point. In this situation you sail across the channel on a tight reach heading directly for the sandbank on the other side. The chop is large and rolling waves but you are going relatively slowly, so this is controllable. The last 15-20 meters before you get to the bank is still quite rough so you don't want to turn downwind and accelerate too far out from the bank. It is too easy to lose control and spin out in the chop. So the strategy is to wait to the last second to bear away very sharply as close as possible to the bank where the water is as flat as possible. It's a trade off between trying to build apparent wind by bearing away a bit earlier, and not getting out of control in the chop as you accelerate. The stronger the wind/gust is at that moment, the later you can leave it. The later you leave it, the flatter the water is, and the safer it is. But it is a bit like playing 'chicken' and you don't want to stuff it up or you are going to crash on the sandbank! . And the later you leave it in a good gust, the stronger the acceleration is. I must admit to really liking that bit.

Here is an example that a mate took of me doing this quite a few years ago. The wind is gusting around low 30's knots and I had a 41 knot 2 second if I remember correctly. Bu the time I passed the boat I was rounding up tighter and slowing down.

Here is a great example by the worlds best. The luderitz canal necessitates a 'slingshot' by it's very design. Fortunately, the wind strength in the start section is usually a bit less than it is in the main run after you round the bend, because of the local topography. That means that just as you round the bend you are usually getting into the maximim wind strength and the acceleration is wonderfully intense.

This is also an excellent example of the stopping technique.

^^ Imagine if he hadn't sheeted out ever so slightly 2 or 3 times in that run! He needs to learn how to keep the gas on

Select to expand quote

AUS1111 said..
^^ Imagine if he hadn't sheeted out ever so slightly 2 or 3 times in that run! He needs to learn how to keep the gas on

Albeau sailed 32 total runs that day, with 13 runs over 52 knots (96.3 km/h, 59.8 mph) and 4 runs over 53 knots (98.2 km/h). That's a truly awesome day on the water.

Select to expand quote

John340 said..

AUS1111 said..
^^ Imagine if he hadn't sheeted out ever so slightly 2 or 3 times in that run! He needs to learn how to keep the gas on

Albeau sailed 32 total runs that day, with 13 runs over 52 knots (96.3 km/h, 59.8 mph) and 4 runs over 53 knots (98.2 km/h). That's a truly awesome day on the water.

by interest, what was the wind speed at that day ? I do try to imagine what sort of hardle sailor needs to withstand and fights with. What was AA sail size? Looks like he did carry some weight too ? or that is impact vest rather?( sorry John, I know that you are not just a google , that I could just pop the question and get answer, but you seems to be very well informed on that matter)

Select to expand quote

John340 said..


Albeau sailed 32 total runs that day, with 13 runs over 52 knots (96.3 km/h, 59.8 mph) and 4 runs over 53 knots (98.2 km/h). That's a truly awesome day on the water.

That's the AA point of difference, he is first on water and last to finish for the day, a natural born athlete with drive and commitment required to get the job done
If you were putting together a team in any sport or business this is what you look for

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

John340 said..

AUS1111 said..
^^ Imagine if he hadn't sheeted out ever so slightly 2 or 3 times in that run! He needs to learn how to keep the gas on

Albeau sailed 32 total runs that day, with 13 runs over 52 knots (96.3 km/h, 59.8 mph) and 4 runs over 53 knots (98.2 km/h). That's a truly awesome day on the water.

by interest, what was the wind speed at that day ? I do try to imagine what sort of hardle sailor needs to withstand and fights with. What was AA sail size? Looks like he did carry some weight too ? or that is impact vest rather?( sorry John, I know that you are not just a google , that I could just pop the question and get answer, but you seems to be very well informed on that matter)

Peter, the info I provided came from Google. The wind speed was extreme, the gusts greater than 40 kts. Rocks were being blown over the course. After a while, only AA and Patrik Diethelm continued sailing. AA had his own support vehicle to bring his gear back to the start. He did twice as many runs as PD. Both of them broke the existing world record that day. In some regards PD's result was more impressive than AA, given he is 10 to 15kgs lighter. The sail size they use in these conditions is typically 5.5. PD's was smaller at 5.0. They both would have used weight.

Spot on John. I remember reading that PD went to his partners 4.7m sail, and I think AA wnet to a 5,2m but the one in the video on that run looks more like a 5.8m.

Wind strength figures are pretty meaningless at that place in this situation. Over 40 is a good way of putting it but typically, it is super gusty and micro peaks are waaaay higher. It is one situation where the word 'extreme' is meaningful.

I've heard AA doesn't sheet out until over 50

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..
Spot on John. I remember reading that PD went to his partners 4.7m sail, and I think AA wnet to a 5,2m but the one in the video on that run looks more like a 5.8m.

Wind strength figures are pretty meaningless at that place in this situation. Over 40 is a good way of putting it but typically, it is super gusty and micro peaks are waaaay higher. It is one situation where the word 'extreme' is meaningful.

I think that designers of L?deritz channel may consider to create wind shadows.
At the beginning and very end extrema wind is not needed , so maybe some additional barriers may create better conditions there.

We have such arrangement here on GC where skyscrapers take all the wind near the beach with only small gap in the middle where gale force could blow fully. Which means that we could start up with oversize sail and reach the middle mark with some considerable speeds when fin is already well engaged.

The problem is the quite often wind is Extreme but you could not sail to the middle section on small board without sinking. there is almost no wind at the beach to start.
.So small wind management at L?deritz channel may help everybody when full force will be available at bearing off only.

Maybe it take then longer time to get to the higher speeds before full bearing off. so channel may need to be extended a bit.

There were some very creative stops at Wello this afternoon

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..
I think that designers of L?deritz channel may consider to create wind shadows.
At the beginning and very end extrema wind is not needed , so maybe some additional barriers may create better conditions there.

We have such arrangement here on GC where skyscrapers take all the wind near the beach with only small gap in the middle where gale force could blow fully. Which means that we could start up with oversize sail and reach the middle mark with some considerable speeds when fin is already well engaged.

The problem is the quite often wind is Extreme but you could not sail to the middle section on small board without sinking. there is almost no wind at the beach to start.
.So small wind management at L?deritz channel may help everybody when full force will be available at bearing off only.

Maybe it take then longer time to get to the higher speeds before full bearing off. so channel may need to be extended a bit.

There is no more scope for that Macro. Since the 2015 pause in the event, the new canal has been lengthened in the start area a bit, but not sure how much it has helped as that area is in a wind shadow area of a small hill and on many days it is really gusty and notoriously hard to get going.
The end of the canal is dictated by the presence of a 30m+ high ridge perpendicular to the course, and the access road so there is no way to extend the canal that end. It is also common for the very strongest winds to be right at the end of the canal where the topography funnels and intensifies the wind strength.

For best speeds there is a myth that one needs to have an 'oversized' sail. This is absolutely not correct. One has to have the ideal sized sail, although to many people, that can feel way 'oversized' as it may feel quite overpowered on a reaching run-in. I have seen some really excellent sailors do very fast speeds on sails that I considered far to large. In some cases they has no choice as they were the smallest sails they came with, but they managed to rig them very flat and very twisted to reduce the power they generated and were able to sail in control. But this is not the way to get the maximum speeds possible. They were carrying far too much drag and likely the extra weight of the larger rig hindered board speed as well. In the best days of Sandy Point speed sailing from 2006 to 2010, I found I often gained as much as 2 knots by changing down from my 5.0m sail, to the 4.4m sail, even though I could actually still do runs with the larger one in 30-40 knot winds. These sails may sound small to many speed sailors, but I am only 72Kg when fully fit. On epic days, my go-to sail is still my 4.7m.

Select to expand quote

John340 said..
There were some very creative stops at Wello this afternoon

Glynn's in particular

Select to expand quote

waricle said..

John340 said..
There were some very creative stops at Wello this afternoon

Glynn's in particular

He lost his dacks in a crash as he spun out in the standing waves at the start of the run.

Select to expand quote

John340 said..
He lost his dacks in a crash as he spun out in the standing waves at the start of the run.

Naturally innovative. Just use what you have got!

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

For best speeds there is a myth that one needs to have an 'oversized' sail. This is absolutely not correct. One has to have the ideal sized sail, although to many people, that can feel way 'oversized' as it may feel quite overpowered on a reaching run-in. I have seen some really excellent sailors do very fast speeds on sails that I considered far to large. In some cases they has no choice as they were the smallest sails they came with, but they managed to rig them very flat and very twisted to reduce the power they generated and were able to sail in control. But this is not the way to get the maximum speeds possible. They were carrying far too much drag and likely the extra weight of the larger rig hindered board speed as well. In the best days of Sandy Point speed sailing from 2006 to 2010, I found I often gained as much as 2 knots by changing down from my 5.0m sail, to the 4.4m sail, even though I could actually still do runs with the larger one in 30-40 knot winds. These sails may sound small to many speed sailors, but I am only 72Kg when fully fit. On epic days, my go-to sail is still my 4.7m.

This may be your most useful post ever. Congrats.

Select to expand quote

John340 said..

waricle said..

John340 said..
There were some very creative stops at Wello this afternoon

Glynn's in particular

He lost his dacks in a crash as he spun out in the standing waves at the start of the run.

It must be warm up there. No wettie..

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

John340 said..

waricle said..

John340 said..
There were some very creative stops at Wello this afternoon

Glynn's in particular

He lost his dacks in a crash as he spun out in the standing waves at the start of the run.

It must be warm up there. No wettie..

No wettie for at least the last month

Select to expand quote

John340 said..

sboardcrazy said..

John340 said..

waricle said..

John340 said..
There were some very creative stops at Wello this afternoon

Glynn's in particular

He lost his dacks in a crash as he spun out in the standing waves at the start of the run.

It must be warm up there. No wettie..

No wettie for at least the last month

He'll have to rug up when he comes south..