Useful like ADTR?
Did everyone just jump on that bandwagon?
Did every sail company need ADTR to design good sails?
I'd take a lower key approach when it comes to ADTR.
At least, as a lowly Regional Rider, I actually sorta got rewarded as a somewhat competent windsurfer, not sat in a pickup truck in the desert buzzing around flattening lizards.

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Roo said..

Tardy said..
So when we are talking ADTR is a standard mono film faster than a scrim sail .not that they make many scrim race sails .

so are smother surfaces more aero dynamic or would a scrim being more stronger and less give have more power ,if power equals speed .

just a thought ,

Tardy the monofilm sails retain their shape over a longer period of time in use, they don't stretch. If they have no UV protection the mylar breaks down and ultimately fails. Ultimately smooth surfaces have less drag but you would have to get rid of batten pockets and stitching which wouldn't be practical.

Thanks Roo ,good to talk to someone who knows what their talking about .

Exactly!!

Do you guys really believe ADTR actually helped make better sails?
If no, then you think for yourself.
If yes, you are a fool and will be taken over and over again.
Sitting in a pickup trunk speeding thru the desert does not make better sails.
Please, don't be a fool.

Yeah , Leed said so .!

How can you tell an idea works?
Everyone is copying it! Like Neil Pryde sails.
How can you tell an idea is worthless? NOBODY copies it.
How many sailmakers make their own ADTR?
GUESS.........exactly NONE.

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LeeD said..
How can you tell an idea works?
Everyone is copying it! Like Neil Pryde sails.
How can you tell an idea is worthless? NOBODY copies it.
How many sailmakers make their own ADTR?
GUESS.........exactly NONE.

I think I just thew up in my mouth a little .... this is just a dumb statement.

a/ Anyone who is serious about high-performance sails, has taken a tape-measure to a sail. Plenty of us have gone way further.

b/ Running a team, vehicle and test-rig, is F******* expensive.... by today's standards/costing, a team running for 12 months, would cost ~ $750K USD. Since windsurfing is such a niche sport, the reason no one copied it was because no company has that much money to spend.

Get off your high horse.

And Lee....there are plenty of people who have copied ideas that DONT work.

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LeeD said..
How can you tell an idea works?
Everyone is copying it! Like Neil Pryde sails.
How can you tell an idea is worthless? NOBODY copies it.
How many sailmakers make their own ADTR?
GUESS.........exactly NONE.

That's far from the first time I've heard that Neil Pryde are the most copied sails. (Not that I'd know, they all look the same to me) How come LeeD gets such a reaction?

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Roo said..
the upper section of the sail is twisted off creating proverse yaw a

Had to look up "proverse yaw". Aeroplanes have it but how does it relate to a vertical sail ?

There you go....think...or maybe not.
Do the #'s. $750,000 a year for ADTR?
Enough said!

If NP are the most copied sails why does no one else use their flex top mast design??

Could be just an internet meme?

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Ian K said..

LeeD said..
How can you tell an idea works?
Everyone is copying it! Like Neil Pryde sails.
How can you tell an idea is worthless? NOBODY copies it.
How many sailmakers make their own ADTR?
GUESS.........exactly NONE.

That's far from the first time I've heard that Neil Pryde are the most copied sails. (Not that I'd know, they all look the same to me) How come LeeD gets such a reaction?

How come?

History, a very long history...

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Brent in Qld said..

Ian K said..

LeeD said..
How can you tell an idea works?
Everyone is copying it! Like Neil Pryde sails.
How can you tell an idea is worthless? NOBODY copies it.
How many sailmakers make their own ADTR?
GUESS.........exactly NONE.

That's far from the first time I've heard that Neil Pryde are the most copied sails. (Not that I'd know, they all look the same to me) How come LeeD gets such a reaction?

How come?

History, a very long history...

History what's that got to do with it?

So if someone else said it you would just say
" Fair enough, it is after all unlikely sailmakers are all in their own little research bubbles"

I asked a sail maker about why cam sails are faster ..

cams combined with a wide sleeve provide a cleaner entry and this reduces drag .

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Ian K said..

Brent in Qld said..

Ian K said..

LeeD said..
How can you tell an idea works?
Everyone is copying it! Like Neil Pryde sails.
How can you tell an idea is worthless? NOBODY copies it.
How many sailmakers make their own ADTR?
GUESS.........exactly NONE.

That's far from the first time I've heard that Neil Pryde are the most copied sails. (Not that I'd know, they all look the same to me) How come LeeD gets such a reaction?

How come?

History, a very long history...

History what's that got to do with it?

So if someone else said it you would just say
" Fair enough, it is after all unlikely sailmakers are all in their own little research bubbles"

In the first instance, the history of LeeD within this forum not sail design.

Sail making, like most industrial design practices, is an industry wide cycle of influence, interpretation and application. Occasionally there is genius resulting in leaps forward but it is mostly collective advancement. To say that everyone copies one source indicates myopic ignorance of not just sail development, but industry in general.

Yeah , but LeeD makes Seabreeze .........Special.

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Imax1 said..
Yeah , but LeeD makes Seabreeze .........Special.

LOL ...i have fed my cat on pal once .

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Tardy said..

Imax1 said..
Yeah , but LeeD makes Seabreeze .........Special.

LOL ...i have fed my cat on pal once .

That's funny

Well, certainly Severne is not the most copied sail. But will soon be in consideration.
NP is not copied by everyone, of course. There are dozens of sailmakers in the world, and every one of them can design useful sails.
But for a quick update for your next or beyond sail, buy a NP in August. Not a China made production from past season, of course.
But be aware, not all protos will be copied 100% for the new production sails.