In Germany, when there are clear blue skies they turn on the cloud generators then the big fans to blow the clouds across the sky. Beautiful to see.

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For those that don't know what is actually planned for the wind power plant off the coast of Wollongong. The turbines will be 300m tall and the closest ones will be 10km from shore (not 20km), with the furthest ones out to sea about 40km. The area will span from just south of Cronulla to level with Kiama, which is about 60km.
So they will obviously be very visible from the shore and reaching as far as the eye can see, up and down the coast. I personally don't mind the look of a few, nor sure how I'll feel if it's the entire sea scape.

The thing that is concerning people so much, aside from the visual impact, is that there appears to be very little information or research readily available relating to the effects on the environment, the sea floor, whale migration, local weather effects such as increased and decreased precipitation, noise when the wind is blowing onshore etc.

I would like to hear any first-hand experience from our European members that have had to live next door to this type of industry. Especially ones of this scale and if they have localised effects on wind, weather, or noise. The wind that say Gerroa gets in a NE'r and Cronulla gets in a southerly will have to travel through maybe 40 to 60km of turbines about 20km up wind of the beaches. I found some research that estimates that wind flow is restored between 1 and 10km downwind of a turbine, but nothing to clarify if that effect is compounded after travelling through many km's of turbines. If anyone has some links to factual information it would be much appreciated.

For those doubting the well-established link between elitist lizard people and windfarms ????
www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4897336

For those doubting the well-established link between elitist lizard people and windfarms
www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4897336

Is it private companies that buy these killing machines / wind turbines or is it the taxpayer?

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elk said..



The EV industry has some challenges ahead of it,
3 car carrier ships have been destroyed transporting them, fires in parking stations and dealerships where there parked next to each other, and a huge amount of them spontaneously combusting world wide, and not just the cheap garbage coming out of China but also the high end EVs coming out of Europe and America.

I'd like to see real data about Tesla fires.

www.7news.com.au/motoring/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires-c-12375799

Must be a conspiracy theory.

Certain 'characters' on here are incapable of coming to terms that the MSM have duped them.

Global Warming an obvious scam that their precious ego will never concede was a con.

Electric cars another.

Farting cows having significant influence on temperature

Too funny.

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Rango said..
www.7news.com.au/motoring/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires-c-12375799

Must be a conspiracy theory.

theconversation.com/electric-vehicle-fires-are-very-rare-the-risk-for-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-is-at-least-20-times-higher-213468

You did'nt grasp the content .The fires produced are very difficult to manage as cargo ships have found out recently.
Would you want to live in an appartment complex with hundreds of these on charge under you.

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Rango said..
www.7news.com.au/motoring/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires-c-12375799

Must be a conspiracy theory.

If you know anything about risk and insurance liability you would understand why a directive like this is issued, similar to how someone like me comes to a Buisness and inspects all electrical tools and equipment, I check literally hundreds of items yearly, only ever have to reject at best a handful but the Buisness owner is obliged to have all tools tested and tagged regularly. The risk posed is minuscule, yet the law states its a requirement. Its a similar thing here, yes electric cars can catch on fire - surprise surprise, yes they are close to impossible to extinguish when thermal run away happens, but so do phones, scooters, toys, vacuums, et etc. Regulators are obliged to inform Buisness so that Buisness can then add set regulations into their safe work method statements, their risk assessments etc. However the chances of it happening are not reduced, nor increased, it just the awareness that changes. If the numbers and intensity of eV fires was high they would have prohibitively high premiums, they don't. This and other cooked anti change miss information are peddled in this country and in the US by the right wing Murdock backed media, and laughed at by most of the rest of the world who are already embracing the necessary change.

www.drive.com.au/news/electric-car-battery-costs-lead-to-write-offs/
The subsidy machines do have higher premiums any damage is too much risk.
Don't you know the safety hierachy of control measures .Eliminate being number 1 out of the 6.

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elk said..
Is anyone going to the planned protest this Sunday off Wollongong beach NSW, it will be a good opportunity to send a message to the idiot politicians and environmental vandal greens, letting them know that people don't want these disgusting looking windmills of our coast. It is forecast to blow north east that day so I'll launch my kite down wind and work my way up to where the majority of protesters will be, surfers, sups, and just about every form of water craft are expected to be there.
The more the better.

public.substack.com/p/victory-orsted-abandons-whale-killing

You boys can stamp your feet as much as you like about electric cars but they're coming. All the major car's manufacturers have stated that ice cars are not going to be made anymore. Coal is getting out cos they just can't compete with wind and solar and they make more dollars with renewables.

You say coal cannot compete with wind but i wonder if the taxpayer is subsidizing these wind turbines that kill millions of birds?

^ if you are really concerned about bird strike, stop driving your car. I'd reckon per capita, cars kill far more birds than turbines. Plus your taxes wouldn't have to fund quite so many of those deadly roads.

The difference being for society to function we sort of need cars.

Coal and gas power stations are working just fine. I see little pollution in this country from them.

We do not need these killing machines.

Were the birds able to speak....

If you play yourself, you lose your humanity.......and your fate is sealed.

It is then a slippery slope for society to embrace other dark practices.

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Pcdefender said.. >It is then a slippery slope for society to embrace all dark practices.

That's precisely why I worry about you Peter.
The junk you peddle, is extremely dangerous!
Talk about dark practices, condemning future generations to the consequences of climate change, is absolute evil.

You've been sucked in by 666, the ultimate dark force, trying to tear civilisation apart. by promoting division and misinformation.

The dumbing down of science, the spread of misinformation, all contribute to this.

There are obvious challenges ahead, we need to work on the problems in a clear field, not to waste time having to confront stupid ideas and sudo science.

How radioactive is coal waste?


Studies show that ash from coal power plants contains significant quantities of arsenic, lead, thallium, mercury, uranium and thorium[1]. To generate the same amount of electricity, a coal power plant gives off at least ten times more radiation than a nuclear power plant.4 Nov 2022


Radioactive ash from coal power plants | E-003567/2022

europa.eu
www.europarl.europa.eu ? doceo ? document ? E

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decrepit said..

Pcdefender said.. >It is then a slippery slope for society to embrace all dark practices.

There are obvious challenges ahead, we need to work on the problems in a clear field, not to waste time having to confront stupid ideas and sudo science.

Certain all the pics and video of birds that have been harmed and killed by them is not pseudo science.

Pseudo science these days is anything that is not parroted by the powers that be on their brainwashing box.

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Pcdefender said..
The difference being for society to function we sort of need cars.

I think you need to get off your keyboard and go and visit Holland. Not so many cars, just lots of bikes and windmills and no dead birds lying around. A truly fab place to visit and a society that seems to function very well. Very good windsurfing nearby as well.

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Pcdefender said..
You say coal cannot compete with wind but i wonder if the taxpayer is subsidizing these wind turbines that kill millions of birds?

Well here's what the Australian government subsidises the oil and coal industries

New research shows fossil fuel subsidies over the forward estimates have increased to a record breaking $57.1b, up from the $55.3b forecast in 2022. As the federal budget approaches, future fossil fuel subsidies will cost 14 times the amount invested in the Australian Disaster Ready Fund, and more than the amount spent on the Australian Army.

australiainstitute.org.au/post/57-1b-record-breaking-fossil-fuel-subsides-following-climate-election/

Electric cars are not selling in the USA. The car manufacturers are having to re-think their strategy. This has been big in the news.

The reason is pretty clear. Unlike Europe, where you can cross 5 international borders in an afternoon, the USA (like Australia) has wide open distances with chargers few and far between. EVs don't work in this scenario. The CEO of Ford made a long drive cross-country in an EV and reported on the experience. He said it was not good.

My daughter bought the long-range version of the Tesla Model Y. She sold it 7 months later because it would not deliver the advertised range. Not even close. 250 miles is not 400 miles.

They are fine for city driving, but not cross-country. You see Teslas all over the streets of Seattle, but you rarely see one on the freeway between Seattle and Spokane. If you drive an EV in the California central valley, you are driving a diesel.

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elmo said..

Pcdefender said..
You say coal cannot compete with wind but i wonder if the taxpayer is subsidizing these wind turbines that kill millions of birds?

Well here's what the Australian government subsidises the oil and coal industries

New research shows fossil fuel subsidies over the forward estimates have increased to a record breaking $57.1b, up from the $55.3b forecast in 2022. As the federal budget approaches, future fossil fuel subsidies will cost 14 times the amount invested in the Australian Disaster Ready Fund, and more than the amount spent on the Australian Army.

australiainstitute.org.au/post/57-1b-record-breaking-fossil-fuel-subsides-following-climate-election/

Good you posted the link to the fossil fuel subsides but i did ask the question if these wind farms are receiving any payments by the taxpayer.

The MSM actively suppresses this, but nuclear cars are the only solution.
Decent range and always-on glow-in-the-dark safety

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decrepit said..

Pcdefender said.. >It is then a slippery slope for society to embrace all dark practices.

That's precisely why I worry about you Peter.
The junk you peddle, is extremely dangerous!
Talk about dark practices, condemning future generations to the consequences of climate change, is absolute evil.

You've been sucked in by 666, the ultimate dark force, trying to tear civilisation apart. by promoting division and misinformation.

The dumbing down of science, the spread of misinformation, all contribute to this.

There are obvious challenges ahead, we need to work on the problems in a clear field, not to waste time having to confront stupid ideas and sudo science.

The misinformation problem comes from the top. Politicians regardless of which side they are on a debate, slip and slide around direct questions. There is decent data out there from official sources (like ABS and Reserve Bank) but the political class do not get it. Inflation is a good example. It has been reduced to a cost of living issue. Whereas the long term issue is the standard of living. Inflation raises prices of imports (e.g. windsurfing gear, washing machines, cars) while reducing prices of our exports. You would think the latter is good news. However many export industries can't simply ramp up volume overnight. And they have to cover costs such as imports of machinery, shipping rates, and other inputs to production. So export returns (which are floating our economy) may be good for the moment, but not as good as they might be. Responses to climate change etc get distorted in this mix.

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Longlines said..

decrepit said..

Pcdefender said.. >It is then a slippery slope for society to embrace all dark practices.

That's precisely why I worry about you Peter.
The junk you peddle, is extremely dangerous!
Talk about dark practices, condemning future generations to the consequences of climate change, is absolute evil.

You've been sucked in by 666, the ultimate dark force, trying to tear civilisation apart. by promoting division and misinformation.

The dumbing down of science, the spread of misinformation, all contribute to this.

There are obvious challenges ahead, we need to work on the problems in a clear field, not to waste time having to confront stupid ideas and sudo science.

The misinformation problem comes from the top. Politicians regardless of which side they are on a debate, slip and slide around direct questions. There is decent data out there from official sources (like ABS and Reserve Bank) but the political class do not get it. Inflation is a good example. It has been reduced to a cost of living issue. Whereas the long term issue is the standard of living. Inflation raises prices of imports (e.g. windsurfing gear, washing machines, cars) while reducing prices of our exports. You would think the latter is good news. However many export industries can't simply ramp up volume overnight. And they have to cover costs such as imports of machinery, shipping rates, and other inputs to production. So export returns (which are floating our economy) may be good for the moment, but not as good as they might be. Responses to climate change etc get distorted in this mix.

Amen brother

Australians are failing big in the Inflation issue, simply because it is phenomenon unknown to 90% of them.

Lost count the amount of times I read or listened in the news (specially economic articles) here calling for a retract in rates while we are still in inflationary scenario.

It will get a lot worse before it gets better.

For the muppets here asking for rates to be dropped politically, have you seen our Exchange Rate? If RBA follows the crowd and drop rates now, our dollar will sink even further.
Guess what will happen with the cost of everything we import (including imported fuel)?
Next you will you ask the government to intervene in the markets and ask for price freezes, then you watch everything just disappear from the shelves.

Congratulations, we just became a version of Argentina.

Too true. Literacy in matters financial is not big. My 'umble view is that schooling in accounting is a foundation skill. It develops math knowledge. How to manage personal and professional finances. And is a good lead into economics for the x% so inclined.

No idea where it sits with HSC or other year 12 subjects. Maybe part of a larger subject area?

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Pcdefender said..

elmo said..

Pcdefender said..
You say coal cannot compete with wind but i wonder if the taxpayer is subsidizing these wind turbines that kill millions of birds?

Well here's what the Australian government subsidises the oil and coal industries

New research shows fossil fuel subsidies over the forward estimates have increased to a record breaking $57.1b, up from the $55.3b forecast in 2022. As the federal budget approaches, future fossil fuel subsidies will cost 14 times the amount invested in the Australian Disaster Ready Fund, and more than the amount spent on the Australian Army.

australiainstitute.org.au/post/57-1b-record-breaking-fossil-fuel-subsides-following-climate-election/

Good you posted the link to the fossil fuel subsides but i did ask the question if these wind farms are receiving any payments by the taxpayer.

The Australian Government has released its Budget October 2022-23. It commits record funding of almost A$25 billion to clean energy spending, providing greater direction and backing the Government's net zero commitment by 2050. It includes funding for projects that unlock opportunities for clean energy and renewables investors.

www.globalaustralia.gov.au/news-and-resources/news-items/australian-budget-commits-a25bn-clean-energy-and-renewables-projects

That is if they actually spend the money.

So subtracting this from the OIL and Coal subsidies it still leaves your mates in the coal and oil business with an extra $32B in hand.

Sorry Pete, you are still a stooge