That van is indeed impressive, but you really need to think about the practicalities of it, unless you live near a great windsurfing spot and want all your gear with you.

If you live in a high density area, that is going to be a problem for you, as these things are big and finding a place to park is going to be a challenge in a lot of places. When you consider that there must be at least 2.7m behind where the rear bench seat is, that's a lot of length.

For my area I live in, I would prefer a trailer as it is easier to load, easier to modify, and you don't have to take it with you if you don't want.

I've already sorted(procured) the best van - secret squirrel model- clue its french, 2016 model, is 6.2m long can stand up in the back, dual A/C deluxe carpeted, lined, seats 12 currently...Auto/ cruise control turbo diesel, flys like **** off a a shovel, super nice to drive, air ride drivers seat, all the modern techo car/van features you could want, GPS, reverse camera, hands free etc takes up way less room that a car trailer combo..cheap on fuel, its my 'van life project' , will hold all toys/sleep 2-4 persons/passengers, kitchen on board / external shower, etc 4 + passengers on the road + driver when it's all complete.

Plus it has a cool sun roof and built in window curtains!

as a result I have a cheap Hyundai for sale is someone wants a compact van (seats 4-6 depending on config) and holds boards x 2 and a bed.

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JonesySail said..
I've already sorted(procured) the best van - secret squirrel model- clue its french, 2016 model, is 6.2m long can stand up in the back, dual A/C deluxe carpeted, lined, seats 12 currently...Auto/ cruise control turbo diesel, flys like **** off a a shovel, super nice to drive, air ride drivers seat, all the modern techo car/van features you could want, GPS, reverse camera, hands free etc takes up way less room that a car trailer combo..cheap on fuel, its my 'van life project' , will hold all toys/sleep 2-4 persons/passengers, kitchen on board / external shower, etc 4 + passengers on the road + driver when it's all complete.

Plus it has a cool sun roof and built in window curtains!

as a result I have a cheap Hyundai for sale is someone wants a compact van (seats 4-6 depending on config) and holds boards x 2 and a bed.

Sounds like a good option... I'm a bit wary of the size of Mathew's van; not sure i am comfortable with the height, i do not have so many boards / gear, i probably do not need something that height... Nor do i need so much space at the back for the kids.

What is that french van you're talking about? Traffic LWB is 5.4m ... far from the 6.2m you're mentioning.

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mathew said..
Pfft... you just need a bigger van.... KA360's kid-mover:

Let's see yours again. I thought it was even bigger than Akim's?

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akesy said..

JonesySail said..
I've already sorted(procured) the best van - secret squirrel model- clue its french, 2016 model, is 6.2m long can stand up in the back, dual A/C deluxe carpeted, lined, seats 12 currently...Auto/ cruise control turbo diesel, flys like **** off a a shovel, super nice to drive, air ride drivers seat, all the modern techo car/van features you could want, GPS, reverse camera, hands free etc takes up way less room that a car trailer combo..cheap on fuel, its my 'van life project' , will hold all toys/sleep 2-4 persons/passengers, kitchen on board / external shower, etc 4 + passengers on the road + driver when it's all complete.

Plus it has a cool sun roof and built in window curtains!

as a result I have a cheap Hyundai for sale is someone wants a compact van (seats 4-6 depending on config) and holds boards x 2 and a bed.

Sounds like a good option... I'm a bit wary of the size of Mathew's van; not sure i am comfortable with the height, i do not have so many boards / gear, i probably do not need something that height... Nor do i need so much space at the back for the kids.

What is that french van you're talking about? Traffic LWB is 5.4m ... far from the 6.2m you're mentioning.

seek and you will find, said thy 'master' !

Matt's is a bus NOT a van

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JonesySail said..

akesy said..

JonesySail said..
I've already sorted(procured) the best van - secret squirrel model- clue its french, 2016 model, is 6.2m long can stand up in the back, dual A/C deluxe carpeted, lined, seats 12 currently...Auto/ cruise control turbo diesel, flys like **** off a a shovel, super nice to drive, air ride drivers seat, all the modern techo car/van features you could want, GPS, reverse camera, hands free etc takes up way less room that a car trailer combo..cheap on fuel, its my 'van life project' , will hold all toys/sleep 2-4 persons/passengers, kitchen on board / external shower, etc 4 + passengers on the road + driver when it's all complete.

Plus it has a cool sun roof and built in window curtains!

as a result I have a cheap Hyundai for sale is someone wants a compact van (seats 4-6 depending on config) and holds boards x 2 and a bed.

Sounds like a good option... I'm a bit wary of the size of Mathew's van; not sure i am comfortable with the height, i do not have so many boards / gear, i probably do not need something that height... Nor do i need so much space at the back for the kids.

What is that french van you're talking about? Traffic LWB is 5.4m ... far from the 6.2m you're mentioning.

seek and you will find, said thy 'master' !

I like it ;( not as big as Matt's, looks manageable size wise, and would definitely fit everything and everyone... Good call ;)

Matt needs it...of no fixed address.

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mathew said..
Pfft... you just need a bigger van.... KA360's kid-mover:

I like the angled racks.... not sure it is so helpful for formula sized gear though...

Anyone have a strong opinion on the imported Nissan's?
Are repairs really that much more expensive or is it an old myth that you can't get spare parts?

This setup looks pretty good from FormulaNova's old post.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/a-new-FN-windsurfing-van

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berowne said..
Anyone have a strong opinion on the imported Nissan's?
Are repairs really that much more expensive or is it an old myth that you can't get spare parts?

This setup looks pretty good from FormulaNova's old post.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/a-new-FN-windsurfing-van

The engine is the same as used in the 350z or whatever they are called. Its a very common Nissan engine. I think they are also used in the Pathfinder of the same years. The running gear is meant to be the same as the Pathfinders.

As they have become very common now, places are popping up that sell spares for them. There is a place in SA that sells spares that are otherwise hard to get from Nissan in Aus. As they seemed to have become so popular, there are more and more of them getting wrecked and as a result spares seem to be plentiful.

When I first started looking at these, I would have noticed one rarely. Now, they are everywhere and I get sort of embarrased when I see a line of cars in traffic and think, another Elgrand.

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IanK

Let's see yours again. I thought it was even bigger than Akim's?

Same size - Akim's van is definitely for kidlets... mine is for "no fixed address" ...

My van only has two "legal" seats, so its front-layout isn't interesting for moving a family - it is great at hosting say a 4-person dinner, if that is your goal. And it has a double-bed and a single-bed. It would also be possible for a blow-up bed on the floor. So if you want to include family, it is quite liveable.

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berowne said..
I like the angled racks.... not sure it is so helpful for formula sized gear though...

It is about 1.2m between wheel-arch's -> since the arch's are annoying anyway, I use them as storage-holes that can hold stuff unimportant, but necessary (such as a second harness, extra water, etc)... then put the formula-board on the floor.


Just a note on its size -> I used to live in inner city Melbourne (specifically St Kilda) - parking is never really an issue unless you are trying to get a carpark in under-building or you like parking during peak-hour.... you may need a long-bay spot or somewhere to overhang the bay... but generally speaking, it is just a minor annoyance as bays that are long enough, are in the majority. That statement applies to beach-parking too. You do have to be aware of trees - they can really do some damage.

I used to use trailers for a previous job - they cannot be parked anywhere near a city as they require at least two consecutive bays. And require being stored behind a locked gate - I had a trailer until some low life used bolt cutters (luckily it was a very old and empty 6x4).

Hello, Berowne,

Re ElGrands. You should be able to join an ElGrand car club near you and the owners will be able to help you with a source for spare parts and service/repairs on the vehicle. However, you might also go to a Repco store and see if they have a listing for your vehicle, in terms of oil and air filters.

It would be helpful to you, if you buy one, to make sure you get an owner manual so you can see what lube oils are specified and where the jacking points are etc.

Re parts from a Nissan dealer. This is unlikely, as Nissan Australia do not import the ElGrand and therefore have no responsibility to service the vehicle (I spent most of my working life in the auto industry, at various makers, and they all worked the same ie. we service what we sell).

Hope this helps.

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Ian K said..

mathew said..
Pfft... you just need a bigger van.... KA360's kid-mover:

Let's see yours again. I thought it was even bigger than Akim's?

Is there more than this on Mathew's van?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Ideal-campervan-for-windsurfing-traveling?page=1

This one looks impressive. Not sure I can afford the price...

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Ian K said..

mr love said..
One consideration nobody has spoken about is safety. Some of these older vans are death traps, I wouldn't touch anything less than current ANCAP 3 star with a barge pole.

I don't think anything more than 5 years old could get 3 current ANCAP points? The thing nobody mentions about ANCAP ratings is that they assume you crash into a car of equal mass and equally yielding crumple zones. i.e.. two cars of 1000kg colliding, each going the 47kph of the ANCAP test is "equivalent" to one car hitting the stationary concrete barrier in the test. Hit a travelling heavier vehicle with its stiffer crumple zones and that 47kph could easily double. Vans are close to 2 tonnes, more if you all the gear. Just make sure it's bolted down.

Sorry to see my old van go. the best highway cruiser ever. You only get a couple of hundred for a 20yo van. It's just come back to haunt me. Unregisted and all. Not a law-abiding lot in WA!

Yeah, but the flipside of owning a heavier vehicle is that you're more likely to kill some other poor sod if you hit them. It's probably not a factor with vans because you feel more vulnerable being so close to the front, but there appears to be a breed of 4wd owners who have a "sod the other guy, I'm just going to run over them and save myself" mentality.

I don't recall advocating buying "heavier vehicles" I just want people to be aware that some of these older vans and grey imports they are mentioning would struggle to be even close to modern acceptable crash standards. By the way you gain points in ANCAP for pedestrian impact meaning that modern vehicles are safer for a 3rd party as well as the occupant.

anyone have clues about the Chinese LDV vans? Cheap or "Cheap for a Reason"!??

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mr love said..
By the way you gain points in ANCAP for pedestrian impact meaning that modern vehicles are safer for a 3rd party as well as the occupant.

Statistics are indicating the taller SUV vehicles we are now buying are worse for pedestrians. Makes sense. A low car with a sloping bonnet and windscreen, like we used to buy, deflects pedestrians over the top - a glancing blow. Bullbars on SUVs make it even worse. A giant cheese grater sort of effect on pedestrians.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/611116451/fatal-pedestrian-crashes-increasingly-involve-suvs-study-finds
www.carscoops.com/2018/07/trucks-suvs-2-3-times-likely-kill-pedestrians-crashes/
www.newscientist.com/article/dn4462-suvs-double-pedestrians-risk-of-death/

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mr love said..
I don't recall advocating buying "heavier vehicles" I just want people to be aware that some of these older vans and grey imports they are mentioning would struggle to be even close to modern acceptable crash standards. By the way you gain points in ANCAP for pedestrian impact meaning that modern vehicles are safer for a 3rd party as well as the occupant.

Can you be a bit more specific than this general 'oh yeah, they are bad'? That helps no one. Similarly advising someone that an ANCAP rating is going to solve their problems if they are in a Nissan Micra and get hit by a 1970s Landcruiser. It makes no sense at all to advise that a good ANCAP rating is going to save you in that sort of crash. I think your talk is misleading at best.

You seem to be stuck on the theory that anything old is bad. Things have improved progressively over the years, not just in the last 2 years. Would you prefer to be in a crash in a 1989 commodore versus a 1980 one? What about a 2001 commodore versus the 1989 one? No doubt, each one is successively better than the last. Would you prefer to be in the 2001 commodore or a 2018 Toyota Hiace if they collided front on?

A cab-over van is always going to be a risk, whether its a 1996 one or a 2019 one. You are at the front of the vehicle with no space for crumple zones. No matter what brand of van it is. Airbags are going to reduce the injuries, but there are diminishing returns, and you are still in a cab over van.

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mr love said..
I don't recall advocating buying "heavier vehicles" I just want people to be aware that some of these older vans and grey imports they are mentioning would struggle to be even close to modern acceptable crash standards. By the way you gain points in ANCAP for pedestrian impact meaning that modern vehicles are safer for a 3rd party as well as the occupant.

I didn't say you were advocating heavier vehicles, and I specifically referred to the fact that vans such as the ones you mentioned seem to be different to 4WDs etc so that I wasn't seen to be criticising you.

It's just that I've seen and heard many people refer to the ANCAP testing protocol and the way it measures impact against a vehicle of equal mass and some of them make the inference that it's better to buy a vehicle that will squash some other sod in a smaller car or a pedestrian, as if the owners of 4WDs with bull bars were never, ever the ones responsible for the crash. There appears to be a mentality that we should ignore the potential affect of our vehicle choices on other road users, and since we cannot guarantee that we won't be at fault in a crash we shouldn't just say (as some effectively do) "I'll save myself by crushing the other guy".

I completely agree with your basic point; I've had several old Kombis full of boards but there's no way I'd touch one now that I have seen what modern cars do to protect their occupants and others.

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Ian K said..


Statistics are indicating the taller SUV vehicles we are now buying are worse for pedestrians. Makes sense. A low car with a sloping bonnet and windscreen, like we used to buy, deflects pedestrians over the top - a glancing blow. Bullbars on SUVs make it even worse. A giant cheese grater sort of effect on pedestrians.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/611116451/fatal-pedestrian-crashes-increasingly-involve-suvs-study-finds
www.carscoops.com/2018/07/trucks-suvs-2-3-times-likely-kill-pedestrians-crashes/
www.newscientist.com/article/dn4462-suvs-double-pedestrians-risk-of-death/

Yep, those links support the point that we shouldn't just think about our own protection since our choices in vehicles can affect - or end - the lives of other people. We may not think we will hit pedestrians, but nor did the drivers in those studies.

www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/

I am not an expert in ANCAP but as a car Designer I know a bit about it as it greatly impacts our designs. As to how accurate it is to real world situations then I am not the right person to talk to, all I know is that ANCAP (AUS) , NCAP ( EUROPE) and The US regulations are taken very seriously by the car companies.
The regulations are constantly being updated and are getting tougher and tougher to meet so cars that were released 10 years ago as a 5 star would no longer rate that high.
I had a quick look at the old vans are a mixed bag. Hiace and Transporter are good with the older ones being 3 and 4 star. Mitsu Express and Starwagon not so good at 2 and 1 star. the grey imports are unknowns as they are not tested here, possibly you can get results from the country of origin.

Personally, after talking with crash engineers over the years I would certainly not put my family in anything less that 3 star.

Pedestrian impact is becoming a much bigger factor in achieving Star ratings and there is a whole lot of tests and different ways to gain points. I totally agree that hi ride 4WDs are way more dangerous to 3rd parties than conventional vehicles for a number of reasons, not just the mass.

Anyway the reason for my post was awareness...I just wanted to make sure that when people are considering older vans and grey imports they are also factoring in safety. If you put safety as a priority then you may want to do some research before buying.

I don't know much about the LDV products but they are part of the SAIC group which is China's biggest vehicle corporation and have joint ventures with Volkswagen and GM among others. If not the most mature vehicle builders in China they would be close to it.

On the van scenario. Have two Sparky mates who are now in wheelchairs after accidents in vans. Its mostly the legs that recieve the most damage in a head on collision in a van. Theres just no real protection.

The HiAce was the only recent van to put passengers right upfront. The upcoming model has now replaced passengers with an engine and its associated structure. The minus, it's now about half a metre longer and kilos heavier for the same load capacity. You'd think a modern van with a transverse FWD layout would be no worse than a modern sedan as far as passenger safety goes? Not for pedestrians though.

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mr love said..
www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/

I am not an expert in ANCAP but as a car Designer I know a bit about it as it greatly impacts our designs. .

Been wondering why cars have such sloping windscreens that have you baking in the sun. Is it to make it easier for pedestrians to slide over? Does the arching roofline add strength to crash resistance? Can't be much in the aerodynamics? Or is it just for style? The Toyota FJ 40 appears to have a sensible roof line. Maybe not?

I found this link which looks like it is for the Japanese equivalent for ANCAP.

www.nasva.go.jp/mamoru/en/car_detail/133

If you go back and search, you can see their videos for some vehicles, although there is only so much overlap between their market cars and ours.


Edit: Offset crashes are not a good choice!

www.nasva.go.jp/mamoru/popup/4Op99ei4BL8

versus

www.nasva.go.jp/mamoru/popup/TbPhyidazVk

Hello, Berowne,

Re LDV. You might Google under "LDV road test" to get more info.

The LDV V80 was designed in Europe and has been available in Australia for many years. It is due for replacement during "the near future" (sorry, don't have the exact timing).

The LDV G10 is relatively new to Aust. and it shows in its more modern styling etc.

The low price reflects both vans being made in Chine, thus lower labour costs. Resale value is highly questionable, so don't expect high returns after 3 years (the normal "tradie" life). Service intervals are 15000km, Warranty 3yrs/100,000Km, towing (G10), 1500kg.

If possible, you might ask any couriers that come into your work, what they feel about them. I'd ask what they like AND what they dislike. I'd also ask about parts availability and prices, etc.

Hope this helps.

Would it be illegal to convert an Imax to a van by taking out the rear seats and seatbelt? I want the petrol engine, auto box and soundproofing, but with no family to transport I could dispense with the rear accomodation and use it purely for windsurfing and bunnings trips.


Edit: Answered my own question: