I've been finding it hard to get comfortable lately. I'm getting used to a new board .
It doesn't help that it's inconsistent winter wind..one minute 5kts then hanging on in 20kts. I assume some of the problem is just the ever-changing wind strength and shortness of the gusts..
The board is longer and narrower than my others and I feel it suits a more upright forward sailing style with a lower boom.
If my boom goes from chin height down to chest height will I need shorter lines?
I use a seat harness with 28 -32 inch lines.. I think they are at 28 at the moment. I'm 168cm tall.
I usually have my lines further apart than most people but I have them even wider now to snub up some length.
I usually sail in the harness all the time ( unless it's 5kts) and it feels like I need the front line further forward in the light subplaning stuff and back when the stronger stuff hits..The wider lines help a bit with this..
It's not really feasable to move them back and forward for every gust..??
Anyway between the length issue and fore and after movement it's hard to get comfortable ( and adapt to all the other subtleties of the new board).
Any tips?
Ps I absolutely love the board and everything feels great really powered up but I'm rigging for the gusts so that's not that often..

when its gusty like that ,I rig twin cam sails or no cam ,not a fan of my race sails when the fan is turned off ..and they don't like it either ,

The centre of effort of the sail moving forward and back could be to much downhaul.if your rigging for gust you might be over doing it.
ive found with my OD's it's easier to handle the sail set full then downhauled to the max.

havnt had the turbo out yet when well powered up but I expect it will be the same.

I'll keep that in mind. I've been using 2 and 3 cammed sails..

Select to expand quote

Ben1973 said..
The centre of effort of the sail moving forward and back could be to much downhaul.if your rigging for gust you might be over doing it.
ive found with my OD's it's easier to handle the sail set full then downhauled to the max.

havnt had the turbo out yet when well powered up but I expect it will be the same.

I've had an issue with the camera rotation so basically I rig so it rotates ok but choose a sail size for comfort in the gusts..

Are you using an adjustable outhaul? I've found this is where they really are worth having. Letting it off in a lighter wind and bringing it on in stronger wind really does balance out the inconsistencies in harness line loading without having to stop and bump things around.

Glad I asked. It's interesting to come in on it from another angle .I was fixated on harness lines and hadn't considered the sails.

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Subsonic said..
Are you using an adjustable outhaul? I've found this is where they really are worth having. Letting it off in a lighter wind and bringing it on in stronger wind really does balance out the inconsistencies in harness line loading without having to stop and bump things around.

Yes..I might look at adjusting it more..
I remember one time I bagged it out in the lighter stuff and didn't have time or think to pull it on in the gust. I ended up spinning out , sliding sideways the whole run wishing I'd pulled the sail on'..

So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

What's the board? And what fin are you using in it?

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

Can't see why you would have to lower the boom that much. I find 4cm is really noticeable

Select to expand quote

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

What's the board? And what fin are you using in it?

Windtech 64..still sorting out fins..Im getting used to a 33cm .It's ok as long as I have more front foot pressure and let it get up to speed before I put any weight on it.
It's great when I'm powered up.
33 selects pointer or 33 makani
The windrange is a bit of a pain. Once we get some summer seabreezes it will make fin choice easier.
I can use a 36 drake pointer or maybe a 39cm C3 sting ( although that's probably overkill) if there aren't any big gusts.
The 39cm is ok if it doesn't get stronger than c15kts.
The boards rides on the back so it doesn't need as big a fin and I can get overfinned easily.
7.5m -7m -6.6m -33cm is safest
7.5m -7m I can use the larger fins if there are no evil gusts ( 18 -20kts).
It's my big board..

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Ben1973 said..

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

Can't see why you would have to lower the boom that much. I find 4cm is really noticeable

It's a whole new ballgame. The usual height felt uncomfortable as the board is narrower. I was told to try chest height.??
It's a barrel of fun , just a bit harder to fine tune in gusty winter conditions.

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sboardcrazy said..
I've been finding it hard to get comfortable lately.... it's hard to get comfortable ....

I went through your first post and tried to understand the problem and this is all I can find.

Please explain the problem. What is not comfortable?

So despite a long post, you told us nothing. Factual bullet points are preferred.

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sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

Yes! Im my opinion anyway. Otherwise your butt cant dip so your legs straighten too much and that kills your stance. It is only by a small amount but it is "the" difference. Normally you need to avoid a droopy arse AKA 'the french toilet position' legs wide arse down low but when in danger of catapult or spin out getting your butt low helps. Have a look here- at about 3.45 he talks lines. Another good idea are adjustable lines they can give you some flexibility they get poo pooed by many but lots of pros use them yes they add a few grams to the swing weight but can be a boon.

Select to expand quote

JakeNN said..

sboardcrazy said..
I've been finding it hard to get comfortable lately.... it's hard to get comfortable ....

I went through your first post and tried to understand the problem and this is all I can find.

Please explain the problem. What is not comfortable?

So despite a long post, you told us nothing. Factual bullet points are preferred.

* if I drop the boom from chin to chest height do I need shorter lines
* feels like my harness line position needs to change from subplaning compared to really powered up. Tips for harness line position for gusty patchy conditions..

Select to expand quote

peterowensbabs said..

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

Yes! Im my opinion anyway. Otherwise your butt cant dip so your legs straighten too much and that kills your stance. It is only by a small amount but it is "the" difference. Normally you need to avoid a droopy arse AKA 'the french toilet position' legs wide arse down low but when in danger of catapult or spin out getting your butt low helps. Have a look here-

at about 3.45 he talks lines. Another good idea are adjustable lines they can give you some flexibility they get poo pooed by many but lots of pros use them yes they add a few grams to the swing weight but can be a boon.

I've been following him..I missed that one.. some good info.
I have an adjustable outhaul and I tend to either pull it right on or bag it right out. Maybe I need to be a bit more subtle with it.

I went out for a lightwind desperado sail today .It was flat and pretty consistent so I could practice things.
I usually try and get in the straps early if it's choppy but I think I need to keep up closer to the mast until I'm powered up.. The lines feel ok then..

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

What's the board? And what fin are you using in it?

Windtech 64..still sorting out fins..Im getting used to a 33cm .It's ok as long as I have more front foot pressure and let it get up to speed before I put any weight on it.
It's great when I'm powered up.
33 selects pointer or 33 makani
The windrange is a bit of a pain. Once we get some summer seabreezes it will make fin choice easier.
I can use a 36 drake pointer or maybe a 39cm C3 sting ( although that's probably overkill) if there aren't any big gusts.
The 39cm is ok if it doesn't get stronger than c15kts.
The boards rides on the back so it doesn't need as big a fin and I can get overfinned easily.
7.5m -7m -6.6m -33cm is safest
7.5m -7m I can use the larger fins if there are no evil gusts ( 18 -20kts).
It's my big board..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

This is an interesting post but I'm reading the responses in one go and I see the advice offered heading off in all directions.
This is not surprising because we can't really learn about 'sailing stance' or how to tune our board on the internet.

There can be several solutions to the questions raised here and one competent sailor or windsurf coach watching another person sail can point to the obvious underlying issue straight away, saving weeks of waffle on the internet. Waffle which, haha, I'll now add to.
(My point being that if you can get someone else to watch you sail, or even video you, then you can progress a lot quicker. )


The position of the harness lines is straight forward. If the sail is rigged correctly then the centre of effort (centre of pull) shouldn't move that much. If it shifts back in the gusts then that's usually a sign of too little outhaul tension, but it can also be that there's not enough downhaul as well. Adjustable outhauls are fine to use with cam'd sails but try and do one session with the outhaul tension set in one place so that you then know where the average setting should be - with the clue being the recommended boom setting, usually printed on your sail.

There's then the discussion about harness line length and boom height and that's where this thread already got messy. The harness line length used is not a simple function of boom height and harness hook height. That's the beginners' way of looking at it. If you are correctly holding the boom at arms length in good upright sailing stance then the harness lines needed are really a function of your arm length, and, with the pull outwards when planing along, changing boom height doesn't mean you need different length lines.
There are loads of other complications here: Boom height when sailing along, planing in the straps, is also determined by where you have the footstraps on the board, and where you set the mast foot. if, for example, you set the front footsteps well forwards and the mast foot back, then the mast is more upright and the boom sets higher for any chosen position of the boom clamp itself.

So there are a lot of variables being discussed here, and I see the thread moves on to fin position, so that's another one.
To answer the initial fin question, yes, it's it's OK to have a smaller fin which feels loose when slogging and which only takes foot pressure when you are moving along at proper planing speed. if you find you spin out a lot it's usually not because the fin is too small but - back to the first question - it's because your harness lines are set too far forwards.

So here we have almost all the windsurfing questions in one thread! Try and deal with one issue at a time and make adjustments one by one.
For any newbie reading this, best advice is to get someone else to set up your kit for you, as a starting point, and you can then experiment from there.

Select to expand quote

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..
So if my boom height has dropped 15cm do I need shorter lines compared to normal?

What's the board? And what fin are you using in it?

Windtech 64..still sorting out fins..Im getting used to a 33cm .It's ok as long as I have more front foot pressure and let it get up to speed before I put any weight on it.
It's great when I'm powered up.
33 selects pointer or 33 makani
The windrange is a bit of a pain. Once we get some summer seabreezes it will make fin choice easier.
I can use a 36 drake pointer or maybe a 39cm C3 sting ( although that's probably overkill) if there aren't any big gusts.
The 39cm is ok if it doesn't get stronger than c15kts.
The boards rides on the back so it doesn't need as big a fin and I can get overfinned easily.
7.5m -7m -6.6m -33cm is safest
7.5m -7m I can use the larger fins if there are no evil gusts ( 18 -20kts).
It's my big board..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

Thanks. I'll use the Makani weedy more. Neil said to keep the mastfoot in the middle which is where I have been using it.

Select to expand quote

Basher said..
This is an interesting post but I'm reading the responses in one go and I see the advice offered heading off in all directions.
This is not surprising because we can't really learn about 'sailing stance' or how to tune our board on the internet.

There can be several solutions to the questions raised here and one competent sailor or windsurf coach watching another person sail can point to the obvious underlying issue straight away, saving weeks of waffle on the internet. Waffle which, haha, I'll now add to.
(My point being that if you can get someone else to watch you sail, or even video you, then you can progress a lot quicker. )


The position of the harness lines is straight forward. If the sail is rigged correctly then the centre of effort (centre of pull) shouldn't move that much. If it shifts back in the gusts then that's usually a sign of too little outhaul tension, but it can also be that there's not enough downhaul as well. Adjustable outhauls are fine to use with cam'd sails but try and do one session with the outhaul tension set in one place so that you then know where the average setting should be - with the clue being the recommended boom setting, usually printed on your sail.

There's then the discussion about harness line length and boom height and that's where this thread already got messy. The harness line length used is not a simple function of boom height and harness hook height. That's the beginners' way of looking at it. If you are correctly holding the boom at arms length in good upright sailing stance then the harness lines needed are really a function of your arm length, and, with the pull outwards when planing along, changing boom height doesn't mean you need different length lines.
There are loads of other complications here: Boom height when sailing along, planing in the straps, is also determined by where you have the footstraps on the board, and where you set the mast foot. if, for example, you set the front footsteps well forwards and the mast foot back, then the mast is more upright and the boom sets higher for any chosen position of the boom clamp itself.

So there are a lot of variables being discussed here, and I see the thread moves on to fin position, so that's another one.
To answer the initial fin question, yes, it's it's OK to have a smaller fin which feels loose when slogging and which only takes foot pressure when you are moving along at proper planing speed. if you find you spin out a lot it's usually not because the fin is too small but - back to the first question - it's because your harness lines are set too far forwards.

So here we have almost all the windsurfing questions in one thread! Try and deal with one issue at a time and make adjustments one by one.
For any newbie reading this, best advice is to get someone else to set up your kit for you, as a starting point, and you can then experiment from there.

I think the lines might be a bit too long.. I feel ok reaching or going off the wind but going upwind I sometimes feel I'd like them a bit shorter.
It could also be my stance. It's been choppy and gusty and I've been more focused on keeping it together than correct form..I'll suss that out next sail.
The footstraps are 20cm wider than I'm used to which is great fully powered but I think I've been trying to get in them too early.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

Thanks. I'll use the Makani weedy more. Neil said to keep the mastfoot in the middle which is where I have been using it.

I suggest a fin that isn't shifted forward on the tuttle box head. You want the fin area shifted back, meaning a raked fin whose leading edge is level with the front of the tuttle head, not in front of it. Again, the reason is that the WT64 inbox is further forward than on other boards. For example the fin box placement on the 64 compared to a Mistral 112 looks like this:


You can see that even with the WT straps well forward in the holes, the rear Tuttle bolt is level with the back of the straps. On the mistral the box is about 1 1/2" further back.

This is actually a good feature of the Windtech if you are sailing in weed as it allows you to use a highly raked fin without worrying about the fin area being too far back, but it means you need to be aware of your fin choice.

I had a similar problem on my Windtech 64 when I tried to use a Pepe delta 20. It's a great fin on the right board, but on the WT 64 it proved to be almost unsailable, particularly if the mast foot was at the back of the box. It's an extreme example of a fin whose area has been shifted forward to compensate for rake, but the combination with the fin box position on the WT64 was not workable. But the centre of effort on the Pepe delta is probably still about the same position as for a vertical pointer fin, so I suspect you may have similar issues with your pointers.



Switching to a fin with its area shifted further back changed the board completely, for example a Tribal weed speed 33 worked well.

Select to expand quote

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

Thanks. I'll use the Makani weedy more. Neil said to keep the mastfoot in the middle which is where I have been using it.

I suggest a fin that isn't shifted forward on the tuttle box head. You want the fin area shifted back, meaning a raked fin whose leading edge is level with the front of the tuttle head, not in front of it.

I had a similar problem on my Windtech 64 when I tried to use a Pepe delta 20. It's a great fin on the right board, but on the WT 64 it proved to be almost unsailable, particularly if the mast foot was at the back of the box. It's an extreme example of a fin whose area has been shifted forward to compensate for rake, but the combination with the fin box position on the WT64 was not workable. But the centre of effort on the Pepe delta is probably still about the same position as for a vertical pointer fin, so I suspect your will have similar issues.



Switching to a fin with its area shifted further back changed the board completely, for example a Tribal weed speed 33 worked well

Thanks.
I hadn't noticed the rounding up issue except when I went for the rear foot strap too early?
The wind has been so up and down it's hard to analyse things . So you think that's why I feel like I need to be so far forward?

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

Thanks. I'll use the Makani weedy more. Neil said to keep the mastfoot in the middle which is where I have been using it.

I suggest a fin that isn't shifted forward on the tuttle box head. You want the fin area shifted back, meaning a raked fin whose leading edge is level with the front of the tuttle head, not in front of it.

I had a similar problem on my Windtech 64 when I tried to use a Pepe delta 20. It's a great fin on the right board, but on the WT 64 it proved to be almost unsailable, particularly if the mast foot was at the back of the box. It's an extreme example of a fin whose area has been shifted forward to compensate for rake, but the combination with the fin box position on the WT64 was not workable. But the centre of effort on the Pepe delta is probably still about the same position as for a vertical pointer fin, so I suspect your will have similar issues.



Switching to a fin with its area shifted further back changed the board completely, for example a Tribal weed speed 33 worked well

Thanks.
I hadn't noticed the rounding up issue except when I went for the rear foot strap too early?
The wind has been so up and down it's hard to analyse things . So you think that's why I feel like I need to be so far forward?

See my edits to my previous post. I think that it's best to try a fin with the area back further and see how it goes before you try changing a whole lot of other things

Select to expand quote

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

Thanks. I'll use the Makani weedy more. Neil said to keep the mastfoot in the middle which is where I have been using it.

I suggest a fin that isn't shifted forward on the tuttle box head. You want the fin area shifted back, meaning a raked fin whose leading edge is level with the front of the tuttle head, not in front of it.

I had a similar problem on my Windtech 64 when I tried to use a Pepe delta 20. It's a great fin on the right board, but on the WT 64 it proved to be almost unsailable, particularly if the mast foot was at the back of the box. It's an extreme example of a fin whose area has been shifted forward to compensate for rake, but the combination with the fin box position on the WT64 was not workable. But the centre of effort on the Pepe delta is probably still about the same position as for a vertical pointer fin, so I suspect your will have similar issues.



Switching to a fin with its area shifted further back changed the board completely, for example a Tribal weed speed 33 worked well

Thanks.
I hadn't noticed the rounding up issue except when I went for the rear foot strap too early?
The wind has been so up and down it's hard to analyse things . So you think that's why I feel like I need to be so far forward?

See my edits to my previous post. I think that it's best to try a fin with the area back further and see how it goes before you try changing a whole lot of other things

Ah ! I just saw your edit..Here's my strap position. Sorry mobile upload so it's not the right way up.
I can see what you mean and it makes sense.. my straps are even further back so that would make it even more pronounced?

I'm sill trying to figure out which fin size to get . I don't want to buy too many..I have a Maui Ultra but it's a bit small for the big sails ( 28cms)
Anyone got any suggestions for good weedies other than the tribals/ Maui's..?
I tried a tribal years ago and felt it was too slippery? I have improved a bit since then though..

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

See my edits to my previous post. I think that it's best to try a fin with the area back further and see how it goes before you try changing a whole lot of other things

I'll have to buy one.. I'm sill trying to figure out which size to get as I don't want to buy too many..I have a Maui Ultra but it's a bit small for the big sails ( 28cms)
Anyone got any suggestions for good weedies other than the tribals/ Maui's..?
I tried a tribal years ago and felt it was too slippery? I have improved a bit since then though..

I've used a Tribal delta 20 in the board and recall it was good, but that was weedy, flat water, so I can't vouch for it in chop.

Neil is doing a new range of Windtech weed fins, I have been trying the 20 cm on a Mistral 95 and have had it out in some windy and rough conditions and haven't had a hint of a spinout, but haven't tried it on the 64. He is doing both a 20 and a 24, not sure which would be better on the 64.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

sboardcrazy said..

Pacey said..

I've got a Windtech 64 and can suggest a couple of things. Firstly the rocker line on the board needs you to sail it from the back, which you have mentioned. However, I guess because of the mechanics of incorporating the flexible plate, the finbox is a little further forward than on comparable boards. The net result, particularly if you have a vertical pointer fin and the mast foot near the back of the box, is a centre of immersed lateral area that is forward while the center of gravity of the rider and the centre of effort of the sail are back. The end result is a board that wants to round up a little when you are not fully powered up.

You may find it easier not using a pointer fin in this board, use something like a weedspeed that moves the fin area aft. Also dont have the mast base at the back of the box in medium wind conditions, keeping it forward a bit will help balance the rig with the fin. As you've mentioned, this isnt an issue when you are powered up, but I definitely think this is one board that is better balanced with a raked fin

Thanks. I'll use the Makani weedy more. Neil said to keep the mastfoot in the middle which is where I have been using it.

I suggest a fin that isn't shifted forward on the tuttle box head. You want the fin area shifted back, meaning a raked fin whose leading edge is level with the front of the tuttle head, not in front of it.

I had a similar problem on my Windtech 64 when I tried to use a Pepe delta 20. It's a great fin on the right board, but on the WT 64 it proved to be almost unsailable, particularly if the mast foot was at the back of the box. It's an extreme example of a fin whose area has been shifted forward to compensate for rake, but the combination with the fin box position on the WT64 was not workable. But the centre of effort on the Pepe delta is probably still about the same position as for a vertical pointer fin, so I suspect your will have similar issues.



Switching to a fin with its area shifted further back changed the board completely, for example a Tribal weed speed 33 worked well

Thanks.
I hadn't noticed the rounding up issue except when I went for the rear foot strap too early?
The wind has been so up and down it's hard to analyse things . So you think that's why I feel like I need to be so far forward?

See my edits to my previous post. I think that it's best to try a fin with the area back further and see how it goes before you try changing a whole lot of other things

Ah ! I just saw your edit..Here's my strap position. Sorry mobile upload so it's not the right way up.
I can see what you mean and it makes sense.. my straps are even further back so that would make it even more pronounced?

I'm sill trying to figure out which fin size to get . I don't want to buy too many..I have a Maui Ultra but it's a bit small for the big sails ( 28cms)
Anyone got any suggestions for good weedies other than the tribals/ Maui's..?
I tried a tribal years ago and felt it was too slippery? I have improved a bit since then though..

Yes, I doubt the finbox position the WT 64 is an issue when you are fully powered up in a breeze, but when you are underpowered with a fin that is too upright I think it just makes the board a bit harder to sail. Best thing to do is see if you can borrow a fin with a bit of rake and give it a try, my guess is that the board will feel a bit more balanced.

I just checked out my mid sized weedies. Surprisingly the Maui Ultra 28 isn't much smaller than the 33cm Makani..






I'll try the 28cm when we get enough wind to use the 6.6m again. If it feels ok I'll get a 33cm maui..
What does the forward setting of the fin do? Does it help with upwind performance?

Yes, I think some manufacturers measure along the leading edge rather than perpendicular to the bottom of the board.

Setting the fin forward on the tuttle head just moves the centre of effort of the fin forward, much like having the fin box forward. So if your fin box is already forward as it is in the WT 64, you dont want to move the fin forward on the head as well.