Guess many of us windsurfers have had one or more bad experiences with kiters. There certainly are very competent and friendly people out there but sadly there's also many aggressive or dangerous riders out there.

Mr. Van Bellen's comments on this thread caught my eye and while I haven't read all of it I guess this thread is a good reflection of how we perceive kiters. What a bunch of idiots! I'm so glad that windsurfers are generally much more friendly and responsible people. Just compare any arbitrary thread in the windsurfing forum (except for "toe in") to the kite forum.

Enjoy and make sure to stay away from idiots like these: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Interest-in-Kiting?page=1

They're not all aholes, I have some good friends who kite.


but in saying that, it does bring a brief smile to my face when I count numbers at peli point and there are 10 windsurfers to 2 kiters. On a windier day, 20 of us to 5 of them. I don't think that peli point can be used as a measure of world wide stats. But in days gone by the place was flooded with kites. It gives me a brief glimmer of hope that windsurfing is the long stayer of the wind sports. Plenty of youngsters getting into it too. Not just the usual suspects over the years.

I've had bad experiences with kiters and with windsurfers, but even for kiters, the bad apples are the exception, and more are friendly or friends. One characteristic shared by the "bad apples" in both sports that I noted is that they are one-trick ponies who always do the same thing on the water, on very similar gears. In contrast, some of the nicest guys on the water I have met are great in multiple disciplines (wave and speed with a fin plus windfoil and winging, or kiting with regular and directional boards as well as foils, for example).

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Subsonic said..
... But in days gone by the place was flooded with kites. It gives me a brief glimmer of hope that windsurfing is the long stayer of the wind sports. Plenty of youngsters getting into it too. Not just the usual suspects over the years.

Any idea how many switched to winging, and how many stopped? One of the main reasons to go to kiting I heard from former windsurfers was to have more TOW. Wings have a clear advantage there - good wingers are out when it's so light that dropping a kite might mean the end of a session, and they have a much easier time getting home if the wind drops. Perhaps kite foilers still have a small low-wind edge, but it seems most kiters never picked up kite foiling. The local "bad apple" kiter tried to get into it numerous times, and it was somewhere between very funny and very sad to watch him. A bit like a newbie windsurfer trying to learn windsurfing on a sinker.

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ptsf1111 said..
Guess many of us windsurfers have had one or more bad experiences with kiters. There certainly are very competent and friendly people out there but sadly there's also many aggressive or dangerous riders out there.

Mr. Van Bellen's comments on this thread caught my eye and while I haven't read all of it I guess this thread is a good reflection of how we perceive kiters. What a bunch of idiots! I'm so glad that windsurfers are generally much more friendly and responsible people. Just compare any arbitrary thread in the windsurfing forum (except for "toe in") to the kite forum.

Enjoy and make sure to stay away from idiots like these: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Interest-in-Kiting?page=1

I think the problem is not the kiters but the kite. Probably the % of people who act dangerously on the water is similar across all of our categories of water toys. But kites are big on the water, and you can do things that are much more dangerous than with pretty much anything else. Point is, when you run into an hassle on a windsurf is not such a big deal ... and hassle jumping in front of you with a kite is a much bigger problem.

If I never have to share a break with another kite I'll be a happy man.

I have noticed a shift in kiters attitudes . The kiters we share our local playground with are nice guys . They are courteous and stay out of our way. When I lived in VIC and kiting was new , they came across as a bunch of , up themselves , miserable rude wankers. Never a smile .They would come straight at you regardless of the rules . I don't think rules and common sense was part of their lessons. And there were thousands of them with colour matching gear and board shorts on the outside of the wetsuit. No wonder we hung it on them , it's because they deserved it. I can understand the fun of kiting , but when there are 50 all in one small spot , it seemed like a dangerous sh,it fest. No wonder they never smiled. Did they eventually not enjoy their own company and get bored with themselves ? Did they all get jobs at airport security where their humour gland is never needed ? Have they moved to road cycling so they can be rude and annoy even more people without having to get wet ? I feel better now

Seriously , I think the few kiters that are still doing it , are doing it because they anctually enjoy it. The local kiters seem happy and we always have a laugh.
If only they didn't take up so much room.

I suppose I'm lucky in my local spot because it's a huge area and generally shallow , so we don't get many foils and almost no wingers.

FNQ Kiters are good, at least 4 of them ex Windsurfers I used to sail with 30 years ago, one used to work with me (non ex windsurfer) just stoked to be on the water other Kiters I don't know seem chill

With the arrival of foiling and wingers, the types of craft on the water are much more varied, unlike the two distinct groups of kiters and windsurfers. Also, the cowboy kiters and dangerously inexperienced ones seemed to have diminished in number. As such there is a much better camaraderie on the water.

It's funny. I was reading this thread earlier today and went out in some light wind. Older kitefoilers have been just great at this spot, but I saw two other uncontrolled kite drops in the rigging area. One clipped a windsurfers 10.0 sail as he was carrying it back on his head. At least IT didn't seem to phase him. A bunch of people were shaking their heads...

There was a moment recently where a kiter came up on the spot where normally they stay away from as it's a windsurfer spot, and he got in my blind spot and wasn't leaving me room to jibe. I thought he was headed back the other way and I was navigating around the other windfoilers for my jibe, trying to jibe as shallow as I could to stay clear, and his lines were close to clipping my sail when I was headed back on the other tack.

If we would have hit it would've been partially my fault as well, but I wouldn't have been happy. He seemed to stay away after that.

I had some unpleasant experiences with them while learning how to kite which put me off kiting for good.
I attributed it young people impatience and the "personal space" on the water. With 25m radious, it's a large personal space to invade into.

My beef with kiters is when they jump around windsurfers. Most of them have no idea where they will land.

Having said that, the tolerance level, and the understanding on both sides improved heaps.

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boardsurfr said..

Subsonic said..
... But in days gone by the place was flooded with kites. It gives me a brief glimmer of hope that windsurfing is the long stayer of the wind sports. Plenty of youngsters getting into it too. Not just the usual suspects over the years.

Any idea how many switched to winging, and how many stopped? One of the main reasons to go to kiting I heard from former windsurfers was to have more TOW. Wings have a clear advantage there - good wingers are out when it's so light that dropping a kite might mean the end of a session, and they have a much easier time getting home if the wind drops. Perhaps kite foilers still have a small low-wind edge, but it seems most kiters never picked up kite foiling. The local "bad apple" kiter tried to get into it numerous times, and it was somewhere between very funny and very sad to watch him. A bit like a newbie windsurfer trying to learn windsurfing on a sinker.

Not sure how many have stopped as to how many wing now. Almost all of the wingers over here are fresh faces to me. I'd say the majority of wingers here are fresh starters. It's been a little entertaining over at melville beach which is where most people wing. It's a long standing windsurfing spot, and hasn't ceased to be, so there's now twice the numbers and people cutting tracks in all manner of directions out on the water. Coming ashore one day, I realised I couldn't get my gear ashore straight after I picked it up. There was just a sea of upturned foils right at the constricted path up from the water.

I stay clear of wave territorial spots. Everywhere else, everybody gets on swell

Am a far better kiter than windsurfer. As a windsurfer I freak out much quicker when a kiter gets near me than when I am on a kite crossing another kiter.

The self obsessed kiters that bother everyone, including beachgoers and swimmers just dont get that they bother others with that intimidating kite and need a gentle talking too. Especially the ones that jump.

even I with a kite find myself sometimes inadvertently bothering a windsurfer at a busy spot with a small zone, you can scoot around so quick and be anywhere you want at any time that its tempting to short cut the loop. And whilst I know what I am doing, from a windsurfers view the kite and strings look super bothering. No excuse, i have to remind myself I need to give windsurfers even more space than kiters give other kiters.

try One Eye Mauritius - When it gets busy there, its bedlum and in unforgiving conditions. But the respect tends to be good with good levels.

all that said, every now and then you come across an idiot windsurfer too - just the nature of their kit makes them less intimidating to others

I have noticed a difference on the forum. Couple of years ago it was always the old farts on the windsurfers versus the cool dudes on the kites. Now there is a new, cool watersport and the kites are a bit old hat. Don't hear the jokes about being ancient because you ride a windsurfer anymore.

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RumChaser said..
I have noticed a difference on the forum. Couple of years ago it was always the old farts on the windsurfers versus the cool dudes on the kites. Now there is a new, cool watersport and the kites are a bit old hat. Don't hear the jokes about being ancient because you ride a windsurfer anymore.

Don't hear the jokes about being ancient because you ride a windsurfer anymore.

That's a given nowadays

I'd say it's more to do with people's personality than a particular sport. I haven't figured out if it's entitlement or simply ignorance. From people jibing without first looking over their shoulder to people jumping without ensuring their is a clear landing it's clear there is little consideration for others.

As Subsonic mentioned above, we know some absolute legendary people that unfortunately kite (i say unfortunate coz they're awesome apart from that one thing letting them down :P), and to be honest, we wouldnt have a windsurfing slalom series if it werent for the efforts of those people. However, my issue with kiters is that because its so easy to learn and the way the equipment works , you get people who dont understand the basics of sail craft. They dont understand right of way rules, and most of the time they are in their own world and dont look out for anyone else on the water.
I had an incident just the other day at SB where a learner on a kite sailed right in front of me and i had to turn suddenly to avoid them onto a weed bank while doing a speed run. I had to bail before i hit the reef or i would have ripped my fin out, and when i looked up this person was none the wiser. As others mentioned they also dont look when they jump which could spell disaster for others, and then you get the posers who just seem to do it because its "cool". They do get a lot of hot women kiting which is unfortunate for them because they all prefer the company of men..

I would say that bad behaviour is pretty much universal. Every discipline does bad stuff, and I suspect most don't even realise.

Kiters zooming around and boosting in all directions, monopolising the "waves" on the water's edge.

Windsurfers going full speed in straight lines through everybody.

Wingers bearing off on everything that looks like a wave and cutting across all the other traffic flows.

Everybody sitting in the blind spot of the rider in front and blocking any kind turns to get away.

People don't set out to do bad or annoying stuff, we just have limited capacity to think outside of what we're immediately interested in.

i have had a few close calls with wings when I go fin blasting on my local lake. Mostly just them carving down for a gybe across the front of me without looking and a few port/starboard close calls. Not all wingers but a lot of wingers (maybe these people are new to windsports or are just kiters). its easy to tell who's a windsurfer because they know the right of way

Most kiters are ok, just the odd problem case who went off their meds every now and then, but that's not unique to kiting. I reckon if you want to find the current bastion of wankerdom, it's e-boards...

Besides being nearly beheaded by their lines and hit by them from uncontrollably falling from the sky most kiters are OK. Same for wingers that seem to just change course without looking.....

In the end we are all trying to have fun wirh the conditions that we get on the water..... Kiters don't seem to mingle well on the beach where the stoke is shared between the windsurfers and the Wingers....

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musorianin said..
if you want to find the current bastion of wankerdom, it's e-boards...

e-foils could add a whole other dimension to the problems, since the right of way rules differ for motorboats and sail boats. Not everyone knows the differences. And if an e-foil only uses the motor to go out, but has it turned off going back in riding swell, which rules apply? How are others supposed to know which rules apply at any given moment?

Maybe it's a good thing that e-foils are prohibitively expensive. But with the rise of skinny boards and more efficient foil, foil assist drives could become more popular, and their cost is somewhat comparable to a high-end wing.

Haven't been bothered by e-foils yet. There was just one day where it was forecast to be windier and we were all out slogging around, waiting for a gust big enough to get on foil. One of the efoilers just cruised around us, mocking us...

Every now and then you see them paired with jetskis, which is probably a recipe for disaster for any nearby sailcraft.

Harmony is possible (see at 3:05 min) :

I'm switching between windsurf and foiling depending on conditions and at busy break the other week with all windsports out. Actual great to see. When foiling which sail in the kite area of the break, I do notice a lot more closer sail by's from kiters and foilers. I'm not bothered as come from MX back ground so comfortable will close contact and the friendly smiles but was wondering why. I reckon it's target fixation causing the close sail-by's not intentionally trying to get as close as possible. If you stare at a Target you'll end up at Target.
Don't notice it that much with waves sailers but they tend to focus on waves and making sure they have the wave. Where as in the flatter water your looking at the target in front and if not aware of target fixation then they end up very close especially if they are planning and I'm slogging.

I'm switching between windsurf and foiling depending on conditions and at busy break the other week with all windsports out. Actual great to see. When foiling which sail in the kite area of the break, I do notice a lot more closer sail by's from kiters and foilers. I'm not bothered as come from MX back ground so comfortable will close contact and the friendly smiles but was wondering why. I reckon it's target fixation causing the close sail-by's not intentionally trying to get as close as possible. If you stare at a Target you'll end up at Target.
Don't notice it that much with waves sailers but they tend to focus on waves and making sure they have the wave. Where as in the flatter water your looking at the target in front and if not aware of target fixation then they end up very close especially if they are planning and I'm slogging.

Yes, as a kiter it always bemused me how we kept so close together despite the equipment's need for space. There seems to be an element of "look what I can do" - made easier by the ease of changing course - that I dont get or see so much with windsurfing. Even the windsurfing tricksters seem to keep themselves to themselves more.

my wife, who spends much time on windy beaches (thanks luv) curses kiters like the plague for always ruining her sunbathing and swimming as they insist on coming so close.

Bump

In recent years we've had a school turn up at our local spot Jimmy's beach nsw.
Every day we are heading at people (the schools customers) whom we don't know, and boat-loads more of them arriving throughout the session making it real hard to judge skill level of the other users around quickly.
Most of the time it's kites, sometimes teaching foiling behind boat.

It keeps us, (just two sailors here mostly) on our toes.
There is often about 10 kites, i think there has been up to 20 some days.
It is a very confined spot to run along the beach in flat-water.

From the few customers i've talked to, some after a collision, i am told that zero instruction on avoiding other water users is given.

I have made some great gybes as the sky above became littered with kites and guys sliding on their faces in front of my board attached to out of control kites, as if my life depended on it, which it probably did.
It is an advanced spot, straight offshore wind going into a bay with currents that will pull to sea out the heads very quickly.
But they have a rescue boat. So it's all good for them. Someone with 1hr experience gets to play in a world class spot.

I was self taught here in the early days of kites on a two string C kite and then later a couple of seasons on modern bow kites with de-power.
Just a few years of it before i felt it was better suited to windsurfing for many reasons.

Other than improve my own skill, or not sail here, i struggle to find ways to mitigate the new risks from the school.
I've had a few talks with them, but i gather it is the nature of their business to bring as many learners here as possible so it's futile.

We need backup. We need an army of speedsters to come and help make sailors presence felt, some gybe freaks that can chuck buckets of spray, and maybe some freestyle guru's too.
I'm working on it. But it is a slow process.

Time for a Tetleys ?. Looks like a nice spot. North Haven, SA in winter is like that with the beginner kiters and dingers. Just gotta be accommodating

Have you discussed your safety concerns also with the local council? The school probably operates on a permit which comes with several safety requirements. They surely don't want to lose that license so it might be worth checking if they adhere to the standards. If they got a permit in a shared water space, they have to ensure safety of other water users and doesn't sound like that's the case currently...