What will be effect on performance of my 8.0 meter RAM cam sail if I could not apply enough down haul?
This is a biggest sail in my collection and I am using it in light to moderate winds up to 20 knots.
All I am interested is forward power, as with stability and control I don't have a problem.
I did try few times get dawn haul to the recomended marks but did broke few times 5 mm rope.
Usually I could dawn haul all other sails be hands that one only with crank.
I think that my mast 490 60% carbon X6 Neilpryde mast is simply too stiff 
.
So the question is: If I am loosing on my sail power performance by having sail that is a bit out of recommended shape (by 15 cm of the mark) ?
15cm off on the downhaul sounds like a more then just a "bit out of shape".
See if you can borrow the proper mast and rig to see what it's meant to look like.
Also, how are you breaking downhaul ropes? Get some formulaline, there is no way you should be able to snap a downhaul even with a crank.
1. If you aren't downhauling enough you are more likely getting more power, but less speed.
It's all to do with apparent wind and the actual wind speeds at boom level and the top of the mast. Somebody might like to write a paragraph about this, I'm supposed to be working.
2. I recall a bend curve test where the X6 turned out to be very, very stiff. Like 11 or something instead of 14+ which is normal for a Pryde mast. You might have a rogue mast.
3. 15cm is a lot.
4. How the hell do you break the line? Seriously.
I'd love to see a pic. I'd guess with -15cm downhaul your batten tips will actually be hooking to windward. In which case you'd be getting less power, as well as less speed.
Actually at -15cm you'd also have huge compression loads on the battens and find it almost impossible to rotate the cams, so I'm wondering if you actually meant 1.5cm?
title is "not enuff down haul" and yet we are speaking about breaking the rope with a crank.
sounds like TOO much downhaul when using mis-matched mast vs sail
NP is supposed to be flex top and North constant curve ie in the middle
for my cambered sails i use 100% carbon masts with the stamp from the company that made the sails.
then i downhaul to recommended setting or very close
adjust power with outhaul
if it is not much outhaul cambers rotate less well, but okay in light conditions = anticipated
GOOD LUCK
im using a naish mast in my 7m ram and find its best down hauled all the way . When its rigged rite it is loose all the way to the boom , if im slightly off on the down haul it sails terrible . Are you sure your not just using a weak rope in the downhaul .
Macroscien, i have downhauled sails every day professionally since august 1979 and have never had a rope break ever! why not bring your stuff in to me and i will show you how to rig it properly. 
regards ian.
I have seen lines break rather quickly when the rigger pulls the DH line sideways out of the cleat when de-rigging.
Supposed to pull it straight out then sideways.
Always use a tool of some sort and wrap the line around it when de-rigging just like when rigging.
If you don't use a tool or a stick or something it will be too hard to pull the line down before out with just your hands.
I do that little rope loop trick around part of my universal.
Take up @greenleder's offer.
My '08 Ram has a difference of < 20mm between under- and over-downhauled (on the correct mast) - 15cm is way too much (even my biggest formula sail is < 20mm). And I've never broken a DH line either.
Recommended mast for this sail is 460 + 46 cm extension !
I have been using that in first place but now I did try 490 + 16 cm and maybe that also contributed to my problems.
The the best I could crank down. I tried yesterday. At this stage any more and cranking force rise exponentially. I do really afraid to apply more.
Get the right mast. You will never get the sail to work right using a pryde mast in it. The ram is basically de-tuned race sail designed around a specific mast, so get a mast that matches.
give the sail **** and give it a good streatch it ...crank that 8 metre down so its a six metre !
from what i read - it has four(4) cambers
that IZ a race sail in my book
get the right f'n mast and then ask more questions $%^&*()_
I didn't know that
I just bought a mast for this specifically sail and appear that is not the right one.
It is new for me that each sail require completely different mast.
So far I have been using standard 30% carbon masts from 370 to 460 on the whole range of my sails in the hope that there is some standardisation allowing to swap masts and sails.
OK I If will get new mast for this specifically ram sail, then will be completely unsuitable for another sail that I could buy at similar size ?
Is that always the rule that the softer mast is better then stiffer one ?
Maybe I am going in wrong direction ?
I have this new 8.0 m ram to allow me sail in lighter winds and there is already huge improvement to my previous plain 7.4 m remedy Gaastra.
But still well behind kiters that pull up their 17m monsters.
Maybe my board and fin is also not suitable for this specifically race sail?
I am using 130L fanatic X-ray with 46 cm slalom fin. ( I am 80kg)
Should I change a board or get bigger even sail for this one ie 12 m2?
BTW. I am searching now for 100% carbon second-hand 490cm to get the most of my RAM follow your advice.
What wind strength are you talking about?
I use an 8.0 gaastra GTX on a tabou manta (75 wide, 115 litres), and will plane comfortably in a true 12 knots, possibly can tolerate some 9-10kt holes for short periods. Once you start getting bigger sails, you increase the weight, which can negate the increased sail size. The ram is not designed for marginal winds it is a race sail aimed to be sailed in its top end. You may find that a simpler 2 camber sail of similar size but less weight (eg severne turbo ) will get you going earlier. I would never use race sail for social blasting, but that is me.
I've used the rams, and for me are too heavy and did not have very good bottom end power, struggled on.light wind race days. Others will disagree, but since I changed, I get going earlier and still have a great top end.
From a board point of view, wider planes earlier, and slalom boards are faster.
Something to think about.
Since my range of board are well suited for handling chop at moderate pace not performance will purchase of new RRD Xfire V4 will be adequate for 8.0 RAM to have a most of it?
Suppose that I join next amateur racing to Brisbane Green Island is that set-up has any chance to compete ? 8.0 RAM plus XFire?
I guess that 122L will be optimal for my size (80kg), 8.0 m2 RAM and moderate choppy Shearwater conditions (or sporadically Green Island racing).
There are two other RRD Xfire sizes to consider:
114L - which is my favourite Naish size for my 7.4 m2 Gaastra Remedy
or
129L - which is similar size to my bigest at this moment Fanatic X-ray (130L)
Which one suits the best ?
I am afraid I can not afford to make mistake buying brand new RRD board. Should last for a while...
I guess I can't go wrong by choosing RRD ...
(hit 29 knts today with my 112l firerace with just a freeride sail....)
Why the RRD? They are not common kit around our race scene. I've been racing in brissy now for 5years or so, and I think I have seen only one rrd in that time. You said you already use a naish, have you seen the new bullet? The starboards seem to be pretty quick, they are generally at the pointy end of the field. I'm not bagging the RRD, just posing options.
When thinking about board size, You need to know what performance are you chasing? Bottom end will be improved by width say up to 80cm, bu at 80 kgs, you will get over boarded earlier. That being said, if you are keeping a smaller naish then go the larger board. If you want a one board solution, then look around the 70-75cm width, but you will lose light wind performance.
If you want to see what the racers are using, then either call Simon at board crazy, or come to a bayside race day. The next will be in 2 weeks time. On that point if you want to really develop your skills then come and race.
.
I just find it interesting that you are choosing a board that is not represented in the local slalom fleet, and will base it on advertising and a single posting on sea breeze, and not what is running around your local. You mentioned you want to make the right choice the first time, then you should get to a shop and try and demo some gear. What naish boards are you sailing? I've never heard of a naish crossover. I have used the naish slalom boards in the past and had no issues with them, and Simon at BC is one of the leading racers, and he's using the grand prix at the moment. The top 2 or 3 are all on starboard and fanatic. Now these guys are racing, not just sailing, in our conditions - cant get more relevant than that.
But if your heart is set on the RRD then go for it, just make sure you do your homework. Ive bought boards based on opinion before, and found they do not work for my sailing style. Also you could look at some ex demo boards, as the new gear arrives, I know guys are changing gear out.
Sorry , my Naish Supercross (not crossover) 74 and 110L
possibly not specifically raceing boards need urgent upgrade
Anyway here is next question. If the board above 110L could be used with Ram 8.0 or not at all?
