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Forums > Windsurfing General

New 2012 Naish Chopper wave sail

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Created by windaddict > 9 months ago, 2 Mar 2012
aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
14 Mar 2012 6:56PM
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mathew said...

Lying to customers (better bottom end, better top end) is.... lying.

Mark interpreted my comment dead-on -> we already had a well defined strategy for users, which took into account wind strength and body weight. Naish have come up with a limited version of the same thing **.

Here is an example of why "M" is a useless metric...:

www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/HavingItLarge.pdf

** The quality of the sails themselves is not in question, just the marketing.


Wow, I hope you weren't around for the move from imperial to metric... I'm not sure you would have coped??

Your argument has no merit, you might not like the S/M/L thing, but it doesn't mean the sails will work any different. Just like with the current size model, on a given day one guy will use a 5.3 and another a 4.7... so under this Naish idea on the same day one guy will use a M size sail and another a S. It is no more useful or useless than what we have now, especially when you consider that 5m from one loft can be quite different to 5m from another.

OHHHHH hang on... you are that dude that thinks daylight saving will fade the curtains.

And on the lying, I guess I wouldn't be willing to say that until I had actually tried the product, or seen it in action and actually disproved it.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
14 Mar 2012 7:13PM
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Robby is going to be able to do his spako polevaults off flat water with this thing!...

I'm totally fine with the new scale, it's emphasising the fact that this sail is not to be directly compared to standard sails which may have the same square metres, which is what people will do..

The M is bigger than the S, and they are both smaller than the L.. That's all you need to know, I'm sure the idea is you buy the whole quiver..

If your quiver is a mix of random brand sails, say a 4.2 Zone, 4.7 swat, and 5.3 Boxer and you try replace one sail with the Chopper, then you're already confused, regardless of the sizing..


Of course, like all the crazy Naish 'innovations', nobody will buy them, and in ten years it will turn out they were right all along..


JPD
NSW, 115 posts
15 Mar 2012 7:22PM
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Hey barn I will buy one

ma
NSW, 375 posts
15 Mar 2012 8:39PM
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I will have a L and a M, 2 sail quiver with one mast.

Mark _australia
WA, 23526 posts
15 Mar 2012 6:22PM
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I'll have a S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL - bit more realistic than their 4.2 - 5.3 "quiver" they offer

Z1291
208 posts
15 Mar 2012 7:09PM
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barn said...

I'm totally fine with the new scale, it's emphasising the fact that this sail is not to be directly compared to standard sails which may have the same square metres, which is what people will do..


+1, The reason naish claim the top end is good, is because you've got much less sail area.

In simple terms, if you have the M (medium)- what you would use in equivalent 4.7 conditions, there is only 4.2m2 of sail to be overpowered with.

Some may perceive the sail to have poor top end, and for a 4.2 they do, but they're not meant to be used as a normal 4.2, they're meant to be used a 4.7, so what thet're saying is, is that the M has good top end when you think of it as the equivalent to a 4.7.
It'd just be like Gaastra saying that their 4.7 manics will work right down to 4.2 conditions.

Likewise, they never actually claim the M sail has good bottom for a 4.7 equivalent, just that the sails 0.5m2 smaller than what an equivalent normal sail would be.

As for those saying a the range needs to be expanded upwards, most sailors weighing less than 85kg wouldn't ever use bigger than a normal 5.7 anyway. It is a lightweights sails.

Finally, to draw a comparison, when the naish boxer was brought out people were having the same sort of reactions as they are now, but look at how many people have 4 battern wave sails now. (The Fly was only made because Neilpryde had needed to make a sail like the boxer to win kauli over + they had to make a sail to compete with it)

Mark _australia
WA, 23526 posts
15 Mar 2012 10:57PM
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ZackAttack said...

barn said...

I'm totally fine with the new scale, it's emphasising the fact that this sail is not to be directly compared to standard sails which may have the same square metres, which is what people will do..


+1, The reason naish claim the top end is good, is because you've got much less sail area.

In simple terms, if you have the M (medium)- what you would use in equivalent 4.7 conditions, there is only 4.2m2 of sail to be overpowered with.

Some may perceive the sail to have poor top end, and for a 4.2 they do, but they're not meant to be used as a normal 4.2, they're meant to be used a 4.7, so what thet're saying is, is that the M has good top end when you think of it as the equivalent to a 4.7.
It'd just be like Gaastra saying that their 4.7 manics will work right down to 4.2 conditions.

Likewise, they never actually claim the M sail has good bottom for a 4.7 equivalent, just that the sails 0.5m2 smaller than what an equivalent normal sail would be.

As for those saying a the range needs to be expanded upwards, most sailors weighing less than 85kg wouldn't ever use bigger than a normal 5.7 anyway. It is a lightweights sails.




You ever thought about going into politics?

Most wavesailors under 85kg won't use bigger thna a 5.7? Agreed.
But only 70kg people on Maui call a 5.3 "XL"



aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
16 Mar 2012 8:54AM
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Mark, I don't get why you keep coming back to XL being a 5.3. All the information on the sail so far says that the XL is used in conditions that would normally require a 5.7.


Small (S): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.2 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 3.7

Medium (M): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.2

Large (L): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.3 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.7

X-Large (XL): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 5.3


I will agree that the top end comments still need to be tested. But for me that is not what grabs my attention about this range. I am far more interested in the simplicity of it all.

JPD
NSW, 115 posts
20 Mar 2012 12:58PM
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When do the choppers hit aus ? Anyone know .

ma
NSW, 375 posts
20 Mar 2012 7:33PM
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july/aug I have been told.

raftcrew
NSW, 31 posts
21 Apr 2012 6:24PM
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Interesting take on the choppers...

www.bigwindsblog.com/2012/03/12/2012-naish-chopper/

WINDY MILLER
WA, 3183 posts
21 Apr 2012 6:14PM
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Select to expand quote



I agree, I'd like to try one and see for myself, I have nothing against Naish sails, my most favourite sail was a 2008 5.3 Naish Force



Agreed 2008 was a fine vintage..... Still got mine



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"New 2012 Naish Chopper wave sail" started by windaddict