Im 120kg sailer of avarage skill . I free ride in choppy waters . Any tips to try would be appreciated ( apart from getting off the beer ) . I've moved straps inboard and use cammed sails . The further I move the mast back the better , but the more catapulty it feels. I've tried most styles of boards and none seem perfect. It's like I want a 80cm free ride with 30cm more flat before the front rocker. They don't make a board like this so I would love to know how heavyweights compromise .

Tinho Dornellas is a little fellow in Florida, USA who designed a board called Z2 for the heavyweights
it is 196 liters, 296x84 cm with no daggerboard
it is a CUSTOM board and he is a busy fellow and far from you and I

http://www.calema.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=608





this does not mean some company should not pay heed !!
there is a market for such a board

ironically he speaks badly about the JP SLW
that was before the SLW92

Very cool!! Looks like he is windsurfing on glass, and it doesn't look like it needs more than a couple knots to get it moving. Is that right?

on youtube commentary it "says":

My latest board design, the Z2. designed for big fellas, easy to get on a plane, super predictable acceleration and great manners in strong wind.the ride is always enjoyable, either non planing or powered up.
I am sailing in offshore winds, gusting between 6 knots and 16 knots
you can see it planing in light winds at about 40-50 seconds of the video beginning.
At the very end of the video I am on a nice puff of about 15 knots.

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Imax1 said..
Im 120kg sailer of avarage skill . I free ride in choppy waters . Any tips to try would be appreciated ( apart from getting off the beer ) . I've moved straps inboard and use cammed sails . The further I move the mast back the better , but the more catapulty it feels. I've tried most styles of boards and none seem perfect. It's like I want a 80cm free ride with 30cm more flat before the front rocker. They don't make a board like this so I would love to know how heavyweights compromise .

Have you thought of a Tabou ,rocket ,135 for your weight ..or 145
I'm 95 and sail my 125 litre Rocket in light and heavy winds ..up to 20 knots .ocean and short chop.
great freeride boards .a lot of research has been put into the hull shape ..
and they soak up the bumps ..it still amazes me ..it was that good ,I went and brought the 105 as well .
they are fast too.they have a cheaper construction called the bullit.
great hull design ...hats off to them .FABIEN.VOLLENWEIDER.shaper ..
there is a wide shape as well.
in my 20 years of windsurfing ,it is the best board Ive owned and ridden .
i wish I had stumbled over them earlier, they just make windsurfing easy and enjoyable ..

have you tried moving your boom up and down ,and trying different lengths of lines ..
.if you have a good board ,it might be adjustment ..and tuning ...
maybe ask a sailor close by ...I've picked up plenty over the year just by talking to other sailors .at the beach ..
just by asking do ya think my sail is rigged ok ?and still do...like all windsurfers ,we love talking about gear.

i'm about 5kg less, I tend to use similar size board to most others. I always use next sail size up than others. I still set boards up the same, use similar fin size as others.

Always use a carbon boom, you will fatigue alloy really quick but the carbon doesnt flex quite so much thus shortening chord & increasing draft, makes it wanderey & throws you off easier. Use adjustable outhaul, as soon as powered pull on slightly to keep sail good shape. Use slightly less downhaul, you will naturally flex mast more forcing sail to twist.

Only trim change i make is tend to run back hole one further back but that could be as i sail so front footed. Dont know if heavy relevant but ive always preferred slightly softer mast.

Not all gear is the same, I now use pretty much all fanatic but they gererally dont plane quote as startht87

@ 105 - 110 kilos, i actually in choppy water prefer a narrower board
have used a longboard raceboard with 8.5 and 7 m² sails
fellow heavyweight was having issues with Hawk 135 and SW Retro sail
jumped on a Mistral Equipe with probably my NS Duke 6.9 and had NO issues

What size harness lines are you using Imax?

I'm not a big sailor, but I've found the longer the harness lines I use the less catapaulty I feel.

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Subsonic said..
What size harness lines are you using Imax?

I'm not a big sailor, but I know the longer the harness lines I use the less catapaulty I feel.

Im using 28" but thats because my harness rides up , so i leave it up , im happy with it there . My arms are almost straight. I believe the catapult feeling comes from having the mast back almost all the way. If i have it up the front ( where it feels good ) the chop hits the front rocker and slows me down. In flat water its ok , i can contort mysef by pulling the sail back and leaning forward but thats scary over chop and hard work.
I use carbon booms , bent too many alloy ones experimenting with catapults Still doing silly things and havnt wrecked a carbon yet !
I have been wondering about adjustable outhaul , mabee its time i give it a try
Please dont suggest a formula board , i tried that . Sticks to the water like glue and when it does let go its positively scary in chop and just horrible ! So i stuck foam all over it and surprisingly it makes a great learner board ( but thats another story )

Just wondering why you moved the straps inboard? I wonder if that makes for the catapulting feeling. When I first started using short boards in the late 19th century they were all narrow and obviously not much of any choice about strap position. When I got back into windsurfing about 4 or 5 years ago after a big layoff it felt weird at first having your back feet on the rails, but it did not take that long to get used to it and it is way better for control and comfort and stability once planing. Just a thought.

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Imax1 said..

Im using 28" but thats because my harness rides up , so i leave it up , im happy with it there . My arms are almost straight. I believe the catapult feeling comes from having the mast back almost all the way. If i have it up the front ( where it feels good ) the chop hits the front rocker and slows me down. In flat water its ok , i can contort mysef by pulling the sail back and leaning forward but thats scary over chop and hard work.
I use carbon booms , bent too many alloy ones experimenting with catapults Still doing silly things and havnt wrecked a carbon yet !
I have been wondering about adjustable outhaul , mabee its time i give it a try
Please dont suggest a formula board , i tried that . Sticks to the water like glue and when it does let go its positively scary in chop and just horrible ! So i stuck foam all over it and surprisingly it makes a great learner board ( but thats another story )

If your waist harness rides up, try a seat harness, then you can use 30 inch lines, this gets your weight lower and helps protect against catapults

For better resistance to catapults - turn your front foot so your toes point towards the nose of the board, this make a huge difference

Try your mast base in the middle position. If that doesn't feel right then try small adjustments backward and forward. In flat water I move it backwards and in choppy water I move it forwards.

I agree, carbon booms rule

Adjustable outhauls are messy, but really help if you want to pinch to windward (increase outhaul) or bear away (loosen outhaul). This is essential if you are GPS sailing

Larger freeride and freerace boards are definitely better alternative to formulae boards. There are a lot of boards on the market that are in the (135 to 150 litre) x (80 to 90 cm wide) range. My go to big board is a Mistral 137 which is 249 lg x 82 wide x 137 litres. It has flat tail rocker, rail bevels and its longer length and progressive nose rocket helps with the chop. There are plenty of other good boards out there this size.

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musorianin said..
Just wondering why you moved the straps inboard? I wonder if that makes for the catapulting feeling. When I first started using short boards in the late 19th century they were all narrow and obviously not much of any choice about strap position. When I got back into windsurfing about 4 or 5 years ago after a big layoff it felt weird at first having your back feet on the rails, but it did not take that long to get used to it and it is way better for control and comfort and stability once planing. Just a thought.

The reason i move my straps inboard is because im 120kg and i sink the rails unless im absolutly going flat out . In Port phillip Bay its usually gusty and rough and trying to get into outboard straps ( for me ) can be dangerous. I just dont need that much leaverage. With a heffer like me my boards never get loose no matter how big a fin i use ( within reason ). My front straps i also move forward to get a wider stance ( im 6'1" ) which also brings the mast closer. Mabee i need a custom , now which child should i sell ?

My favourite board is a old xcite ride 160 litre x 80 wide. A bit floaty but its the longer straighter outline that works best for me. I have newer smaller boards but they feel crampy. I need room to move.
I think i know what my problem is .... im too bloody heavy !

what happens when you fall asleep while posting lol.

I was saying not all gear the same, fanatic good in chop & what i use now but not as early planning as starboards generally.

Re. adjustable outhaul, I dont really think about it as messy it's just there, for heavy guy it's more there to dump to give you grunt to get going & power in gybes. I dont have it on wave kit though.

You mentioned wide stance, if you go too wide that can make you catapulty as instead of being more balanced you favour one foot or other & tend to rotate around the front foot. At 6'1 widest you should have is about 42.5cm back screw on front strap to front screw on back. Wave sailors get away with super wide stance as they not in harmess blasting.

If you having issues with board sticking in chop move back strap back as this one controls trim, change fins or increase downhaul slightly. Set the board trim mainly with straps them fine tune with mast foot.

All of the really heavy guys I know 130+ prefer narrower longer boards for some reason. No matter how good you are weight is a hindrance to sailing (look how dunkerbeck went when he got really heavy), everything is harder, people tend to have similar strength but heavy dude has to rig bigger & deal with it. Fact of life you will never plane as early as 80kg guy matter what gear you use, when speed sailing you cant hug banks & use same runs as easy as others as run out of power sooner & going through chop you sink the board slightly more every time you trough.

If you feeling cramped go to longer lines, as go smaller boom size narrows & puts you closer to rig. I ignored this for ages & accidentally was running shorter lines than usual on bump n jump kit & it shows in kook vids in how cramped i am. On my other kit I have gone back to really long 34" or so adjustable lines, this lets me keep boom up & board unweighted. Because flexing boom more generally need to set harness lines an inch or two back to counter the increased draft you get.

If a waist harness is riding up upper body stance isnt right, hike out not crouch in harness, waist harness has many benefits & still fast but keeping core in right position is more important vs seat where you can lazy body it, sit there & be dragged along (if you doing that you are giving away boardspeed).

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mkseven said..
what happens when you fall asleep while posting lol.

I was saying not all gear the same, fanatic good in chop & what i use now but not as early planning as starboards generally.

Re. adjustable outhaul, I dont really think about it as messy it's just there, for heavy guy it's more there to dump to give you grunt to get going & power in gybes. I dont have it on wave kit though.

You mentioned wide stance, if you go too wide that can make you catapulty as instead of being more balanced you favour one foot or other & tend to rotate around the front foot. At 6'1 widest you should have is about 42.5cm back screw on front strap to front screw on back. Wave sailors get away with super wide stance as they not in harmess blasting.

If you having issues with board sticking in chop move back strap back as this one controls trim, change fins or increase downhaul slightly. Set the board trim mainly with straps them fine tune with mast foot.

All of the really heavy guys I know 130+ prefer narrower longer boards for some reason. No matter how good you are weight is a hindrance to sailing (look how dunkerbeck went when he got really heavy), everything is harder, people tend to have similar strength but heavy dude has to rig bigger & deal with it. Fact of life you will never plane as early as 80kg guy matter what gear you use, when speed sailing you cant hug banks & use same runs as easy as others as run out of power sooner & going through chop you sink the board slightly more every time you trough.

If you feeling cramped go to longer lines, as go smaller boom size narrows & puts you closer to rig. I ignored this for ages & accidentally was running shorter lines than usual on bump n jump kit & it shows in kook vids in how cramped i am. On my other kit I have gone back to really long 34" or so adjustable lines, this lets me keep boom up & board unweighted. Because flexing boom more generally need to set harness lines an inch or two back to counter the increased draft you get.

If a waist harness is riding up upper body stance isnt right, hike out not crouch in harness, waist harness has many benefits & still fast but keeping core in right position is more important vs seat where you can lazy body it, sit there & be dragged along (if you doing that you are giving away boardspeed).

Good stuff mkseven
Im going to try a few things you suggest and let u know how i went.
I know which board ill start with , moving the straps back.

thought i would throw my 2 bobs worth in,you are correct in thinking that the rocker under the track is better to be forward as us heavy weights in lighter winds have lot more water line to deal with,thats the feeling of being catapulted.i have a f2 zantos and a supper sport both around 133 l to136l the f2 is 295 long and 55 wide the supper sport is 245 long and 80 wide, with the same sail and rig and marginal conditions the f2 will plane earlier,accelerate faster, and be 2 to 3 knts faster.the f2 will handle chop better and a real wide wind range,25 knts+.the supper sport has that feeling of being caterpulted when trying to get on the plain and not great in chop and takes some coaxing to get good speed,22knt wind and above the board can get very flighty.i run my foot straps in also as this gives a flater board on the water.we are probably carrying 20 to 30 kgs more than most sailors and the only way i can describe it is if you weigh 90 kg, pack 30 kg of water and try sailing,i,ve gave up beer to lose weight hope this helps

Nooooo , not the beer !

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Imax1 said..
My favourite board is a old xcite ride 160 litre x 80 wide. A bit floaty but its the longer lines that work best for me. I have newer smaller boards but they feel crampy. I need room to move.
I think i know what my problem is .... im too bloody heavy !

Your not heavy, you are a light weight compared to me .

I agree formula boards don't work if you are heavy I look for freeride and free race boards with a inset footstrap option which I use at the back and use outset on the front. It makes it easier to get into the back strap sooner. Also boards were you can set up a centre chicken strap in front of the back strap again helps in lighter wind. Not many around now but I find a twin fin freeride board also helps no spin out and you have lots more control with 2 smaller fins than one big one (would love to get a twin fin freerace board but would have to go custom). All my current boards are 80cm wide. a 120, 140 and 160 if I am bouncing around to much I just change to a smaller fin, weed fins also keep the board on the water and used in a twin fin no spin out.

If your'e sailing in higher winds then use a smaller fin.

If you are on the edge of getting catapulted your probably riding the fin and a slightly smaller one with a swept tip so it gybes easier and has less lift but better control.

Some boards although they have inner strap settings dont work that well in this set up.

Sometimes its the weight but sometimes its the wind strength and sail size too.

Using a cammed sail with the inner straps is going to load up the fin more especially on the back foot as your foot is pretty much above the fin.
If its windier then change to a straight RAF sail and smaller fin.....

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Madge said..
If your'e sailing in higher winds then use a smaller fin.

If you are on the edge of getting catapulted your probably riding the fin and a slightly smaller one with a swept tip so it gybes easier and has less lift but better control.

Some boards although they have inner strap settings dont work that well in this set up.

Sometimes its the weight but sometimes its the wind strength and sail size too.

Using a cammed sail with the inner straps is going to load up the fin more especially on the back foot as your foot is pretty much above the fin.
If its windier then change to a straight RAF sail and smaller fin.....

So true ...you need your board to Sit down in the water when sailing in higher winds ,a smaller or more swept back fin is a must to stay I control .
imax.you said your harness slips up ,not good man ...it might be why you are getting thrown forward ...
if I was to pull someone over forward .it would be easier to pull them over from up high ,the lower I go to try and pull them over the harder it will be .
as someone mentioned try a seat harness ..you will get more weight on your feet ..keeping the board down .and can sail powered up easier.

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musorianin said..
When I first started using short boards in the late 19th century

wow you were an early adopter

I think you shouldn't be getting catapulted unless way Overpowered. Sounds like you may need the longer lines as suggested and a new harness. I couldn't use dakine t5 as it ride up pn me. It is a body shape thing. The new np harnesses for kitting/Windsurfing are great. You also need to realy make them near uncomfortably tight once you get wet. With a loose harness you have crap downforce and harder to plane if it rides up you are too upright easier to catapult. With long lines and your ass out you have a better stance.

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cameronil said..
I think you shouldn't be getting catapulted unless way Overpowered. Sounds like you may need the longer lines as suggested and a new harness. I couldn't use dakine t5 as it ride up pn me. It is a body shape thing. The new np harnesses for kitting/Windsurfing are great. You also need to realy make them near uncomfortably tight once you get wet. With a loose harness you have crap downforce and harder to plane if it rides up you are too upright easier to catapult. With long lines and your ass out you have a better stance.

Good ppint about the longer lines, that would also help him......

I don't catapult that much , it just feels catapulty . Unless the fin digs into the sand. I also used to sail in the nineteenth century , even made my own boards. Back into it for 3 years now after 25 years break. We used to carve boards along in a streight line . Now the board is flat and pushing on the fin. I love the new gear and style of riding even though the sails are as fragile as f@&'.k. I think I'd just like a little longer board.
Thanks to all u guys I'm going to try some things.
lm going to move my straps back and get some adjustable lines and push my bloody harness down.
In the name of science I'll give it a go ,

19e century ??? Are you a 140+ years old and still going ??? ;-)

My old roomate from 1985 weighed 275 lbs.
Started on a Marker 1, 205 liters, square tail German production board.
Second board, 3 months later, was a Seatrend 9'5" x 23.5, 135 liters, custom production board. He could uphaul it. Now, 275lbs., with a 4/3 wetsuit in triple XL, booties, harness, what do you think he weighed going into the water?
He was timed at 44 mph at the 3rd Ponds Speed Trials in 1989, beating Fred Haywood, Roddy Lewis, and Laird by 3 mph, he used Neil Pryde WarpSpeed sails, but wasn't invited to the Monday finals, where only NP sponsored sailors accepted entry.
During the Stroh's World Cup Slalom in San Francisco in '88, he was blowing by Torkil Christiansen, a 235 lbs Norwegian World Cup sailor who was supposed to be the fastest guy in the races, including Dunkerbeck, Naish, Nevin, and Bringdal.
Weight is fast, as really fast when added to a talented rider.

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Imax1 said..
I don't catapult that much , it just feels catapulty.

Play around with mast foot position, boom height, and more downhaul. With the right combination, you might find a setting that works for you.

When you move the mast foot back, you may have to move the boom up a bit to keep some pressure on the front leg. That can cause the sail to feel catapulty. If you add more downhaul, the center of effort will move down in the sail, giving you more control. You can also probably move the boom down a bit again, which also can help control. It's worth spending a session or two just playing around with the trim, and noticing how things change.

The waist harness riding up is another issue that reduces control. Your hook moves up, which gives the sail more leverage over you. Given your weight, I'd assume that your waist may give the waist harness some extra help in moving up. I'm lighter than you, but that's still a problem for me, which is one reason I use a seat harness. Some seat harness feel very much like a waist harness, except that the straps keep the harness from moving up.

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boardsurfr said...

Imax1 said..
I don't catapult that much , it just feels catapulty.

The waist harness riding up is another issue that reduces control. Your hook moves up, which gives the sail more leverage over you. Given your weight, I'd assume that your waist may give the waist harness some extra help in moving up. I'm lighter than you, but that's still a problem for me, which is one reason I use a seat harness. Some seat harness feel very much like a waist harness, except that the straps keep the harness from moving up.

Flying objects have a couple of harness models that are essentially waist harnesses with a seat attached. I'm sure other brands have something similar...

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NelsonFoils said...
19e century ??? Are you a 140+ years old and still going ??? ;-)

Ah, it was a joke...

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Imax1 said..

Subsonic said..
What size harness lines are you using Imax?

I'm not a big sailor, but I know the longer the harness lines I use the less catapaulty I feel.

Im using 28" but thats because my harness rides up , so i leave it up , im happy with it there . My arms are almost straight. I believe the catapult feeling comes from having the mast back almost all the way. If i have it up the front ( where it feels good ) the chop hits the front rocker and slows me down. In flat water its ok , i can contort mysef by pulling the sail back and leaning forward but thats scary over chop and hard work.
I use carbon booms , bent too many alloy ones experimenting with catapults Still doing silly things and havnt wrecked a carbon yet !
I have been wondering about adjustable outhaul , mabee its time i give it a try
Please dont suggest a formula board , i tried that . Sticks to the water like glue and when it does let go its positively scary in chop and just horrible ! So i stuck foam all over it and surprisingly it makes a great learner board ( but thats another story )

Guy Cribb advice - keep putting it back down! It needs to be as low as possible..

Have a look at attached technique for us big guys.

guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/HavingItLarge.pdf