I'm genuinely interested to know what "get a flip where the sail rotates neutrally around it's axis" means?

Think of a gybe as a "V" rather than a "U". Lead in, turn, head out. You make your turn at the point of the V.

Turn in with aggression and determination. You can't feel your way in, you will be too slow and the board will dictate terms. Instead be aggressive and show that thing who's boss.

Don't look down.

Do the foot change and rig flip earlier than you think seems sensible. Almost everyone leaves it too late. Flip the rig as the nose points directly downwind.

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AoetearoaSailor said..
I'm genuinely interested to know what "get a flip where the sail rotates neutrally around it's axis" means?

When you're going downwind and the speed of the board is about the same speed as the wind, the sail gets really light and flips easily. It's a very welcoming feeling and telling you something is going right. I've felt it a lot on foil but only a few times on fin, right before I slowed down.

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AoetearoaSailor said..
I'm genuinely interested to know what "get a flip where the sail rotates neutrally around it's axis" means?

Tilt the top of the mast somehow inwards the turn (fast flip) . VS. Tilt the top of the mast to the outside the turn (slow turn/flip).

The 'step over' before or after the sail flip? Why?

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Icelake said..

AoetearoaSailor said..
I'm genuinely interested to know what "get a flip where the sail rotates neutrally around it's axis" means?

Tilt the top of the mast somehow inwards the turn (fast flip) . VS. Tilt the top of the mast to the outside the turn (slow turn/flip).

The 'step over' before or after the sail flip? Why?

Interesting... I suspect I tend to tilt the top of the mast to the outside of the turn - which is to counterbalance my inwards body position, as my weight sits directly over the rail during the midpoint of the turn. This is a natural consequence, I think, of developing my carve gybe progression from a non-planing (carve) gybe (rig out, body in).

As a result, if I flip the rig as the nose of the board points directly downwind, the sail just sits there like a dead weight and the board sinks to a dead stop! I tried following this 'flip when directly downwind' method for many months and got really frustrated and progressed absolutely nowhere with it.

This probably explains why I'm now successfully exiting gybes my clew first, then flipping the rig. The clew first flip is inherently fast, and exiting clew first forgives all manner of sins. Since this thread started I've now progressed with my gybe to the point I'm consistently exiting on the plane, despite occasionally making stupid errors. The other day I accidentally hooked in just before the rig flip, which is not something I usually do :facepalm:, but was still able to correct things, hold down some power and exit on the plane.

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Shifu said..
Think of a gybe as a "V" rather than a "U". Lead in, turn, head out. You make your turn at the point of the V.

Turn in with aggression and determination. You can't feel your way in, you will be too slow and the board will dictate terms. Instead be aggressive and show that thing who's boss.

Don't look down.

Do the foot change and rig flip earlier than you think seems sensible. Almost everyone leaves it too late. Flip the rig as the nose points directly downwind.

Apart from the "foot change earlier than you think seems sensible" and "don't look down", this approach literally describes the opposite of everything I currently do in my carve gybe. I initally turn in very gently (I think of it like treading on egg shells). My best fully planing gybes look like beautiful parabola tracks on the GPS. I think this thread evidences my original comment that there are many ways to skin a cat here - and no one approach will be right for everyone.

At risk of completely embarrasing myself, here's a drone video of one of my pretty 'average' gybes from a few months back. I've improved massively since this was shot, and I can now see many subtle faults in this vidoe that I've since improved on, but this clip might give some idea of what I'm talking about.

www.spot-shot.com/m/-/galleries/windsurfing/august-2024/drone-videos-24-08/-/medias/019184b5-5a32-717b-a597-9e57af2563e0

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aeroegnr said..

AoetearoaSailor said..
I'm genuinely interested to know what "get a flip where the sail rotates neutrally around it's axis" means?

When you're going downwind and the speed of the board is about the same speed as the wind, the sail gets really light and flips easily. It's a very welcoming feeling and telling you something is going right. I've felt it a lot on foil but only a few times on fin, right before I slowed down.

I've only felt it once on the fin and I did the gybe on a fast bear away. Maybe it's harder to have it happen on tighter gybes?

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AoetearoaSailor said..

Shifu said..
Think of a gybe as a "V" rather than a "U". Lead in, turn, head out. You make your turn at the point of the V.

Turn in with aggression and determination. You can't feel your way in, you will be too slow and the board will dictate terms. Instead be aggressive and show that thing who's boss.

Don't look down.

Do the foot change and rig flip earlier than you think seems sensible. Almost everyone leaves it too late. Flip the rig as the nose points directly downwind.

Apart from the "foot change earlier than you think seems sensible" and "don't look down", this approach literally describes the opposite of everything I currently do in my carve gybe. I initally turn in very gently (I think of it like treading on egg shells). My best fully planing gybes look like beautiful parabola tracks on the GPS. I think this thread evidences my original comment that there are many ways to skin a cat here - and no one approach will be right for everyone.

At risk of completely embarrasing myself, here's a drone video of one of my pretty 'average' gybes from a few months back. I've improved massively since this was shot, and I can now see many subtle faults in this vidoe that I've since improved on, but this clip might give some idea of what I'm talking about.

www.spot-shot.com/m/-/galleries/windsurfing/august-2024/drone-videos-24-08/-/medias/019184b5-5a32-717b-a597-9e57af2563e0

Think of it as a V but the result will be an arc or U shape.
Your video looks great. You are well on the way. A bit more aggression will stop you being bounced around as much and you will get through the turn quicker and lose less speed. Boom seems about face high too, which is a bit excessive.

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AoetearoaSailor said..
I'm genuinely interested to know what "get a flip where the sail rotates neutrally around it's axis" means?

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aeroegnr said..
When you're going downwind and the speed of the board is about the same speed as the wind, the sail gets really light and flips easily.

No, that's not what I am talking about.

The best way to understand this is by practicing sail rotations and flips in "pesky" wind (just below planing strength) on a big board, or even on land. The two things to look at is where your mast is pointing, and how the clew travels. If your mast is vertical when the sail rotates, the clew of the sail has to travel a long way around. That builds up a lot of momentum, and the sail rotation is heavy. If you start with the mast point a bit away from the wind, this gets worse.

If you instead have the mast tilted a bit so that the boom is horizontal, the rotation happens around the center of the sail. The clew travels a shorter way, and the rotation feels very light and neutral. The board trim gets disturbed a lot less.

There are two bits of advice that really help to get a neutral sail rotation:
(1) "Level the clew" before the flip (that's ABK advice). Move the mast to windward/forward so the clew comes up and the boom is horizontal.
(2) "Boom shaka" - move the front hand all the way to the mast before flipping the sail. Most jibe lessons and tutorials mention this, but "boom shaka" is the term Guy Cribb uses, and it sticks better to my memory than yet another "move the hand". This helps a lot to get a lighter, more neutral sail rotation. If you leave your hand further back on the boom during the rotation, the sail makes a wider circle, feels a lot heavier, and disturbs the board trim more.

Thank you boardsurfr, that makes sense.

And flip much earlier than what feels right. Much earlier.

On the vid I posted, I remember that the sail went so extremely light that I became confused for a moment (which felt like a long time). Because very rarely does that happen, that the sail is feather weight. I remember having max downwind speed and an early flip. john340 mentions above 'straighten front arm'
I think this helps boom go horizontal as boardsurfer is saying..? Anyway, 'straight front arm' came into my head last session and it made a massive difference.