Select to expand quote

boardsurfr said..
Not something I would rely on. I have seen foil gear get away very fast. If the board is aligned so it points downwind, even a bit of board speed generates lift that pushes the board up, exposing more of it to the wind. After all, it has to list only 10 kg instead of 100 kg. But perhaps the bigger factor is that windfoil boards tend to be larger than windsurf boards, offering the wind more area to push to board away from you.

Yup, the case I mentioned above was a windfoil board getting away from the owner really rapidly. It usually stops quickly but not all the time.

Exercise in a swimming pool when not sailing, especially as we get older. I know I can easily swim 2 miles in a pool, but I also know it will take me an hour to swim that far in a pool so in the ocean it would take a lot longer. So I prefer to sail less than 1 mile from the shore, and even less the rougher the conditions.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..

John340 said.. - the amount of gear you carry - it's very hard to swim with a harness, impact/life vest and back pack

^^ That

Sorry to say it Sue.

I know..but after 6 rib injuries ( including less serious ones while wearing the vest) I'm not sailboarding without it..
Pity we don't have a decent spot with onshore winds..that would solve it.

Holding on to the boom/gear is the best advice. I have never had such a bad crash on open waters that the equipment has gotten away from me.

It is only in breaking waves that the gear has been ripped out of my hands on a few occasions.

Select to expand quote

duzzi said..

musorianin said..

sboardcrazy said..
Are there any tips for windsurfers to catch gear that is being blown faster than you can swim?

I have only one serious experience of this. It involved a twin cam sail that lay on the back on the board after a fluffed gybe a bit shy of a k off the beach. The brutal reality is that there is no "tip". If it's going faster you won't catch it. That's the equation. Preserve energy and preserve life, head directly to shore, at a steady pace, the second you realise your aren't going to catch it. If necessary, ditch harness and other impediments. That's my two cents worth. This doesn't apply to waves, thats a different scenario.

Around here, San Francisco Bay Area, we can sail quite "off shore", 2-3 Km from launch, and with big currents. So the only solution in case of separation from the rig is ... to carry a radio and call the cost guard. And possibly always sail with a buddy, so he/she can wait with you.

My impression is that people grossly overestimate how far they can swim in open waters. 1 km in ideal conditions is a lot, and 100-200 meters can be impossible against even moderate winds or current.

If I can't get the pendant to work I'll research radios..are there any really compact ones?

Select to expand quote

SurferKris said..
Holding on to the boom/gear is the best advice. I have never had such a bad crash on open waters that the equipment has gotten away from me.

It is only in breaking waves that the gear has been ripped out of my hands on a few occasions.

The losses I've had you wouldn't be able to hold the gear..eg - ejected sideways at speed with the sail ripped away. The other time was during a gybe. I don't know what happened there but you're flipping rigs etc..

Take your harness off right away and use it as a sort of kickboard. You'll be slower not using your arms but will fatigue much less rapidly and you'll be less restricted in your movement. If it's blowing 25 you're not going to catch the rig - just swim into the safest spot on shore.

Select to expand quote

Awalkspoiled said..
Take your harness off right away and use it as a sort of kickboard. You'll be slower not using your arms but will fatigue much less rapidly and you'll be less restricted in your movement. If it's blowing 25 you're not going to catch the rig - just swim into the safest spot on shore.

Interesting idea.

Buy some of that slippery nylon rope from Bunnings (couple of hundred meters), tie it to a tree at Coal Pt and its all G.
Imagine the bull sharks, stink boats, wing dings and fishermen you could meet along the way.

Select to expand quote

Longlines said..

Downhaul66 said..

Longlines said..
The OP commented that: Non cammed sails don't seem to be an issue. They just sink / stay there.

In recent years I have had my share of swims after gear. Of late had been thinking of trying my Ezzy Lion without cambers. Wondering if that might save some swims? But unsure of how the sail would work when blasting along and in the gybes. Any experience among the forum members?

I use my 9.5 Lion as a single cam. Still retains decent shape with the bottom cam. You lose a bit of top end, but gybing is almost like a RAF sail with awesome rotation.

Thanks! Will give that a go with my 7.5 Lion. Most useful to know it is the bottom cam to leave in. I am happy to forego some steam power to get better cornering. Also thinking of putting in a slightly longer cam sleeve.

Cam removal test is worth trying.
I have a Severne Turbo 6.0 (6-8 years old) and it is a horrible unruly sail with both of it's cams in.
Tried every mast/rigging etc known to man, would not behave.
Took the top cam out and it became not so bad and is quite useable.
The reason I knew to do this was Ezzy Transformer sails I had 15-20 years ago had the same problem, top cam out and useable.

I was once separated from my kit, and it was the closest I ever came to drowning. I don't like using a life vest and am not the best swimmer. I thought I was, until sprint swimming after kit that blows away faster than I could swim. I was instantly stuffed and about half a km from shore. A real eye opener. Now in dodgy conditions that would blow me away from shore, I have an emergency blow up device connected to the back of my harness. It's about the size of my fist and when activated, automatically blows up to a tethered tube about six inches in diameter and about a metre long. Like an overgrown pool noodle that I can hang over. Just in case.

Further to the post by Te Hau, the Ezzy Lions are nice to use, but it might be their lightness which means they float well and are not good sea anchors. In the distant past I ran a quiver of NP RS four cam sails. Stable as with let us say a 'dedicated' ride. But not so good to gybe or uphaul (water starting that luff sleeve and weight, not really). Needless to say I never swam for my gear. Now days I am more interested in gybing than absolute speed.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

duzzi said..

musorianin said..

sboardcrazy said..
Are there any tips for windsurfers to catch gear that is being blown faster than you can swim?

I have only one serious experience of this. It involved a twin cam sail that lay on the back on the board after a fluffed gybe a bit shy of a k off the beach. The brutal reality is that there is no "tip". If it's going faster you won't catch it. That's the equation. Preserve energy and preserve life, head directly to shore, at a steady pace, the second you realise your aren't going to catch it. If necessary, ditch harness and other impediments. That's my two cents worth. This doesn't apply to waves, thats a different scenario.

Around here, San Francisco Bay Area, we can sail quite "off shore", 2-3 Km from launch, and with big currents. So the only solution in case of separation from the rig is ... to carry a radio and call the cost guard. And possibly always sail with a buddy, so he/she can wait with you.

My impression is that people grossly overestimate how far they can swim in open waters. 1 km in ideal conditions is a lot, and 100-200 meters can be impossible against even moderate winds or current.

If I can't get the pendant to work I'll research radios..are there any really compact ones?

Could look at a Garmin Inreach if you don't want to go to a pocket PLB- can message someone as opposed to triggering a full SAR process ( which the PLB will do). I've been carrying a cheap phone in a Vaikobi phone holder when sailing somewhere I know there's reception for what that is worth.

Another issue with phones and messaging devices is that once you reach a certain age you need reading glasses, i wear multifocals ,but i ditch them when I go windsurfing, I could never read a phone screen.

Maybe a slight tangent but if your gear keeps disappearing upwind without you...better contact your local shaman.

Sue no cams sails can go fast enough, Tiges seems to do alright www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2022-03-06&team=144

Yes, everyone's perception of danger is different and everyone prioritizes their fears differently.

I had to rescue people that were in panic after losing their gear because the "current" was going to take them away. It was only until I was a few feet from the shore that the person let go of my board and swim back to the beach.

Yet, that same person was out sailing over waves and beyond in conditions that were too big for him. Often times riders will go miles out because of the sense of safety their gear gives them. Similar to driving cars at high speeds. Then, when there's something unexpected it's panic mode full on.

It's exceptional to lose our gear because of wind. It needs strong current and strong winds. I lost my gear in over 50 knots and still caught it without so much struggle.

One other thing is that our perception of the situation in panic mode is usually skewed. One, it's often time not as bad as we think. Two, with experience we learn to asset and address.

Raaah I feel like lecturing so I'm out! Just go as far as you're willing to swim back or at least have someone on the lookout for you and have fun!

This happened to me three times over 30 years. All three times were with cammed sails that landed cam-side down so the sail was a nice dry bowl floating on the water with very little resistance to drifting.

The first time was at Nuclear Alley on the Columbia. The wind blew the rig away, but then the current carried it in a big circle right back to where I was waiting on shore. Lucky, that one.

The second time was also on the Columbia at Port Kelley. I was out with friends that day, and one of them had a friend in a sailboat. The sailboat got me and took me to my drifting gear before it would bash on the rocks.

The third time was at Scenic View in Florida. It drifted downwind to where the sandy bottom caught the foil and stayed there until I could catch up.

I have had a few let-go falls with camless sails. Never a problem since they sit flat on the water and act as a great sea anchor.

Lesson learned (and re-learned it seems): never let go of your boom on a fall.

Select to expand quote

ka43 said..
Buy some of that slippery nylon rope from Bunnings (couple of hundred meters), tie it to a tree at Coal Pt and its all G.
Imagine the bull sharks, stink boats, wing dings and fishermen you could meet along the way.

Have it on some sort of slingshot and ' weeeee!!!

Select to expand quote

segler said..
This happened to me three times over 30 years. All three times were with cammed sails that landed cam-side down so the sail was a nice dry bowl floating on the water with very little resistance to drifting.

The first time was at Nuclear Alley on the Columbia. The wind blew the rig away, but then the current carried it in a big circle right back to where I was waiting on shore. Lucky, that one.

The second time was also on the Columbia at Port Kelley. I was out with friends that day, and one of them had a friend in a sailboat. The sailboat got me and took me to my drifting gear before it would bash on the rocks.

The third time was at Scenic View in Florida. It drifted downwind to where the sandy bottom caught the foil and stayed there until I could catch up.

I have had a few let-go falls with camless sails. Never a problem since they sit flat on the water and act as a great sea anchor.

Lesson learned (and re-learned it seems): never let go of your boom on a fall.

That's what happened to me last time. The sail landed cam side down.

I think there's a general consensus that this is mostly a cambered sail problem so if you want to fix your problem, move away from those sails as suggested and make sure that you're fit and don't go further out than you are willing to swim.

Not worth getting in trouble again if there are solutions but you must be willing to change otherwise this thread is pretty useless for you.

Trade in the heavy sails and get nice and fast no cam sails. It will feel so light and fun that you never look back.

Select to expand quote

ptsf1111 said..
I think there's a general consensus that this is mostly a cambered sail problem so if you want to fix your problem, move away from those sails as suggested and make sure that you're fit and don't go further out than you are willing to swim.

Not worth getting in trouble again if there are solutions but you must be willing to change otherwise this thread is pretty useless for you.

Trade in the heavy sails and get nice and fast no cam sails. It will feel so light and fun that you never look back.

The only time this ever happened to me (twice) was a no cam sail - Ezzy Cheetah 7.0 in 20+ kts. They have enough built in shape to cup and slim enough luff sleeve not to catch significant water. The second time was a long *ing swim late on a winter's day. If you can help it, never let go of the boom (even more important for foilers) and I've worn a float/impact jacket since.

Select to expand quote

duzzi said..
My impression is that people grossly overestimate how far they can swim in open waters. 1 km in ideal conditions is a lot, and 100-200 meters can be impossible against even moderate winds or current.

+1 in my experience.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

The only time this ever happened to me (twice) was a no cam sail - Ezzy Cheetah 7.0 in 20+ kts. They have enough built in shape to cup and slim enough luff sleeve not to catch significant water. The second time was a long *ing swim late on a winter's day. If you can help it, never let go of the boom (even more important for foilers) and I've worn a float/impact jacket since.

Yes, sad to say, I have had Cheetahs get away on me twice. Both times a desperate heart-pounding swim got me there - just. Lifejacket and harness certainly slow you down.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

duzzi said.

musorianin said..

sboardcrazy said..
Are there any tips for windsurfers to catch gear that is being blown faster than you can swim?

I have only one serious experience of this. It involved a twin cam sail that lay on the back on the board after a fluffed gybe a bit shy of a k off the beach. The brutal reality is that there is no "tip". If it's going faster you won't catch it. That's the equation. Preserve energy and preserve life, head directly to shore, at a steady pace, the second you realise your aren't going to catch it. If necessary, ditch harness and other impediments. That's my two cents worth. This doesn't apply to waves, thats a different scenario.

Around here, San Francisco Bay Area, we can sail quite "off shore", 2-3 Km from launch, and with big currents. So the only solution in case of separation from the rig is ... to carry a radio and call the cost guard. And possibly always sail with a buddy, so he/she can wait with you.

My impression is that people grossly overestimate how far they can swim in open waters. 1 km in ideal conditions is a lot, and 100-200 meters can be impossible against even moderate winds or current.

If I can't get the pendant to work I'll research radios..are there any really compact ones?

I have a Standard Horizon HX890 and it is not that big. There are smaller units. But you do want the two way communication. I have a Garmin InReach that is much smaller, but I do not want to seat in the water wandering were the rescuers are, or if they are actually coming.

I put the VHS it in a small 5 liters waterproof backpack I carry all the time. You do not feel it, but even if, peace of mind and safety are paramount. I have been sailing the bay since 1986 and started to carry a radio a quarter of a century ago. For "nothing", never had a problem. Then three years ago I called for a friend who separated from his wing, two years ago I got a broken fin, and this year broke the mast (yikes!). We were off the water in 15'. It beats being in the water overnight or disappearing into the sunset ...

It's a good thing to have. Unfortunately accidents do happen.

When I first got into Kiteboarding, like 20+ years ago, I would routinely ride out into the horizon in the ocean and could no longer even see the shore.

After one long run I came back towards the shore and one of my lines snapped in about 3 feet of water.

After that, I never went farther than I thought I could swim back.... It was new gear at the time.

Select to expand quote

JonnyWindsurf said..
When I first got into Kiteboarding, like 20+ years ago, I would routinely ride out into the horizon in the ocean and could no longer even see the shore.

After one long run I came back towards the shore and one of my lines snapped in about 3 feet of water.

After that, I never went farther than I thought I could swim back.... It was new gear at the time.

Very good advice. I also never sail with an offshore wind. For those sailing in the ocean, do you consider the tide as well?

Select to expand quote

Longlines said..
For those sailing in the ocean, do you consider the tide as well?

It's certainly advisable to consider tidal effects, and its not always easy to know how much current there may be and in which direction due to the combination of wind, waves & tides (which can have local eddies, running in a direction opposite of what you might expect.)

Select to expand quote

Sandee said..

Longlines said..
For those sailing in the ocean, do you consider the tide as well?

It's certainly advisable to consider tidal effects, and its not always easy to know how much current there may be and in which direction due to the combination of wind, waves & tides (which can have local eddies, running in a direction opposite of what you might expect.)

Thanks, that is interesting. My only experience is when body surfing. At least then (mostly) the waves will do their duty and return the surfer to the beach, unless on the outbound escalator!

Select to expand quote

Longlines said..
Further to the post by Te Hau, the Ezzy Lions are nice to use, but it might be their lightness which means they float well and are not good sea anchors. In the distant past I ran a quiver of NP RS four cam sails. Stable as with let us say a 'dedicated' ride. But not so good to gybe or uphaul (water starting that luff sleeve and weight, not really). Needless to say I never swam for my gear. Now days I am more interested in gybing than absolute speed.

I have had RSX kit get away from me, that wasn't lightweight kit.

I had harness lines snap on a raceboard once going full speed down wind by myself a few kms offshore, I fell straight back instantly and sort of skimmed on the surface for a bit, I was surprised how well my toes hung on to the board, they must have instinctively known it was going to be a big swim if they let go.

Select to expand quote

Longlines said..

JonnyWindsurf said..
When I first got into Kiteboarding, like 20+ years ago, I would routinely ride out into the horizon in the ocean and could no longer even see the shore.

After one long run I came back towards the shore and one of my lines snapped in about 3 feet of water.

After that, I never went farther than I thought I could swim back.... It was new gear at the time.

Very good advice. I also never sail with an offshore wind. For those sailing in the ocean, do you consider the tide as well?

We have massive tides at the Golden Gate in San Francisco, up to 4 knots, it feels like sailing in a river. People have been swept out of the gate or taken for a tour toward Alcatraz by a flood. But yes, do not consider them. One thing is sure: you cannot swim against a tide.