I'm smashing up boards at an alarming rate, freeriding in rough water. Are there manufacturers with a reputation for making well-built boards that can stand up to thousands of kilometres of open water sailing? Or am I going to have to keep taking boards to the tip each season because they have delammed or are cracking across the deck?

(btw - I'm only 80kg and don't even do big jumps)

Not many it would seem, as they are all Cobra made.

I find the late 2000's Angulo Sumo is tough - more like waveboard construction than freeride, whereas many are more like slalom or freestyle construction so yeah they don't last.
AHD used to be stronger, dunno about now.

I think there is an opening for manufacturers to do a slightly tougher built board as an option in freerides. Not a skin to protect it from dings, but rather a thicker divinycell layer and/or larger deck patches to prevent heel dents etc. Would add 200gm and as if people would not go for that!

Mine! BLUEJUICE/nowRIDER
Ive seen board's I made 10 years ago still in use and one of those was in windy Geraldton.
But any board will break if the wrong forces are applied to it.
Oh sorry I dont make them for people any more.

so there is your opening Mike
copy the main two popular freeride boards in a double sandwich with real deal heel dent prevention and people will buy them

How about the Kode tufskin?

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Cluffy said..

Carbon art? You could probably ask them to toughen one up a bit for you but I doubt it would be necessary.

http://carbonartwindsurf.com/region/index?URL=&COOKIETEST=1

My Tabou 3S is the CED version and it's copped quite a beating but it's still going ok. It has a crack it the nose but it was from a very nasty impact from a rdm mast.

Agreed with the carbon art , a friend of mine Greg Ferguson does alot of repairs and said carbon art are the best built by far !!!!


Some wind would be nice Cluffy

Why can't they make boards like the old F2 Sputnik World Cup Edition, but in a recent shape. The board was around 6kg and sailed it for 20 years and a lot of that was in Port Phillip bay hammering across big chop with quite a few decent jumps. It didn't have a crack in it when I sold it. I also had a Tiga 270 back in early 90's and put massive heel dents in that and basically destroyed it in 6 months.

I still managed to break my Carbon Art...

Starboard iSonic - strongest two piece board I've ever owned

starboard flare even better :

Im not claiming to be a board wrecker but could take any board out from any manufacture and return it to you in half.

Interesting how its let go through the top deck .........................not the bottom.................

which way has it flexed .......

Whats done it heavy jump or chop slapping

Mind you the fella looks under 80kg....................god save the queen if your 80kgs plus with the same construction



On ya starboard / love good warranties

Look at the stoke .................. in the above photo

If you haven't broken one in half your not in the hunt .................





Despite the failures we understand [] .......... thank good companies don't serve up super over kill heavy boards.

just posting the pic for the fun (but screw you red thumbers anyway)

It's a pro kids edition which means it's really light (but no carbon)
Kid was 45 kg at the time, and like you said, after he saw I wasn't angry at him he was quite proud of himself

heavy jumps in chop..good thing it broke on top so he managed to sail/snake it back to shore

Anyway back to topic, they all come from the same factory and even though companies have they own construction I sometimes wonder if they are really respected by Cobra.
Mate of mine opened up his delaminated RRDFirerace last month and there was no "glue" on most areas underneath.

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Cluffy said..
Carbon art? You could probably ask them to toughen one up a bit for you but I doubt it would be necessary.http://carbonartwindsurf.com/region/index?URL=&COOKIETEST=1

My Tabou 3S is the CED version and it's copped quite a beating but it's still going ok. It has a crack it the nose but it was from a very nasty impact from a rdm mast.

But FSW's are usually same as wave construction. It is freerides that seem to use too light a build

+1 on the 3S thouhg, a very nice FSW that could be used for freeride and is good construction

My tabou rockets seemed well made and durable although I'm a lightweight and look after things. I did trip and drop the 125 onto the rockwall and it only got some minor scratches.

What's stronger and more reliable in Starboard's construction methods:
- Carbon
- Wood
- Technora or
- Tufskin

I've seen a board fly off the roof racks at 100kph, do some spins in the air and smash onto the bitumen.
Sailed it half an hour later.
Ok, it was 1985. Windsurfer OD.

If most/all boards are made in the same factory (I assume using similar materials and/or construction methods), then the fault may lie with the sailboarders' jumping/landing technique.

Hard/Flat landings are what damage boards - so a high jump (over 3m) with little forward momentum could be similar in impact to a small jump (under 1m) at very high speed with regards damage to your board if you don't incorporate some sort of tail first landing.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Im going to have to start making my own. Not to save money, but to get something adequately strong.

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John340 said..
What's stronger and more reliable in Starboard's construction methods:- Carbon

- Wood- Technora or- Tufskin

I say wood, based on what I have seen broken.
Put it this way, I had to hammer a screwdriver thru the wood deck once, but in many I can just lean on it and it punctures, or cut thru by hand with a stanley knife.
But it is hard to say as they change year to year, they have used wood and technora, or wood and carbon, or carbon/glass etc.

I think the best at the moment is JP's S glass equal first with RRD carbon/innegra. Innegra is unbelievable.
As long as there is proper heel patches and proper thickness divinycell, and the bloody fabric fully wet with resin. The latter is what they all miss - too often.

+3 on the tabou 3s - it's rock solid and the carbon layer under foot means no soft deck issues for us heavy chop hoppers.

A wally

A custom made board will be made much stronger than the "quality" boards coming out of cobra, any board can be snapped in the wrong circumstances, but on average wear and tear a board that has had components evenly spread and been vacuumed down properly will have a much longer life than a poorly constructed board!!!!

people bash BIC
however, my buddy had a BIC Techno before i got my AHD FF
his looked like new and sold at about 60% of original cost after 3 to 4 years
mine looks beat up BAD and as such keep the board - still goes GREAT
also the OLD boards -- BIC Dufour example -- takes a licking and keeps on ticking
oh, you meant a high performance modern board ?
there are materials (dyneema and others) that are unbreakable and would only add about $200 to the cost of a board
why are they NOT used ??

Bombora Exit..

I do lots of kms on my boards and a lot of the runs are in chop. Haven't even put in heal dints in the old boards. Not too many board makers are using 7mm divinycell all the way round. Just repaired a board that only had 3mm divinycell on the top and glass on the bottom, major damage on the bottom from a hit on the top.

Carbon Art gets my vote and you can always get James to add a little something to improve for your local conditions

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joe windsurf said..
there are materials (dyneema and others) that are unbreakable and would only add about $200 to the cost of a board

why are they NOT used ??

dyneema was used, replaced with innegra more recently. All those polypropylene based yarns are similar anyway.
The trouble is like I said - mass production where sometimes fabric is not wet out properly. Anyone who has the tiniest bit of fibreglass experience can spot it.
I swear they must give the litte Thai bloke exactly 226.87ml of resin and he HAS TO squeegee that out all over. No more, no less. Trouble is then, he misses a bit....... and 2yrs later, out of warranty your board snaps.
Was it fault of the fact they used glass and wood, not dyneema and carbon and biaxial wankwondercloth?
No, manufacturing fault. But manufacturers and Cobra won't admit it.

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John340 said..

What's stronger and more reliable in Starboard's construction methods:
- Carbon
- Wood
- Technora or
- Tufskin

FRom the 2014 Starboard website: http://www.star-board-windsurfing.com/2014/products/technology.php

TUFSKIN
Maximum durability and value. Tufskin technology uses layers of 3-dimensional 400g glass mat wetted out with an expanding epoxy resin system that creates volume within the skin as it cures under pressure. This creates a thick, stiff, and durable sandwiched laminate. Wood reinforcements improve the board's rigidity and the deck's impact resistance.

Advantages:tough construction, more value, most durable.

^^^ sorry Anita but I am not a believer.
That skin creates impact resistance, which does not equate to snap resistance.
Kinda like painting a car with quality paint that won't scratch - but if you kick the door it will dent just the same.

Unfortunately the intermediate is scared of dings so they love that stuff. Really what is needed is smash resistant nose, properly wet out glassing, and no heel dents so they get some use out of it.

I reckon some of the older F2 boards were fantastic for this bump and jump like the Axxis. It's what I still use today for the rougher days. I'm even selling it's big brother hint hint I think they are very durable with the ASA skin and use plenty of rocker shape while still feeling like a slalom board. I just wish modern boards were still made like this.
Cheers
Marty

The EPS foam and PVC foam used in most boards is about the same weight and we cant really use much lighter versions of these, fin boxes and other inserts all weigh about the same. So the only way to save weight is to reduce the resin, fibreglass content and paint.

Reducing the two main components also reduces the boards strength I like to compare reinforced concrete in a building to the outer fibreglass matrix skin on a board the resin is like the concrete and the fibreglass is like the steel reinforcing, imagine a builder reducing one or both he'd get a very week building that would also be cheaper to build. Ive seen inside many cobra boards and seen dry fibreglass with no resin, ultra thin layers of glass.
I dont understand the use of kevlar, dyneema etc they perform poorly under compression great under tension. I believe when a board breaks the eps squeezes inwards if the outer skin is not stiff enough to prevent flex from the damaging force that was applied the outer layer then compresses and breaks. So to reduce any damage the outer skin needs to be stiff by increasing the thickness of the pvc, increasing the weight of the glass used, ensuring adequate resin is used and choosing a fibre that has a high strength under compression.
The amount of times ive seen someone down the beach praising how light a certain board is, or complaining how heavy a board is.
Windsurfers have created the demand for lighter boards and the manufactures have supplied. An extra 600 to 800gms can add so much more strength and longevity in a board.
Check out the Nelson videos of them making a board, decent amounts of glass strategically placed and well wet out with resin.
Good luck in your quest.

I may be presuming things here but surely most if not all custom board makers don't scrimp with the resin and therefore the board is strong?

Not got one myself but there is lots of good feedback regarding Witchcraft boards here on the UK forums being built to last, they do several constructions one of which (no pun intended) is neigh on bullet proof!