Anything from Bombora.

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mcross19 said..

I may be presuming things here but surely most if not all custom board makers don't scrimp with the resin and therefore the board is strong?

Not got one myself but there is lots of good feedback regarding Witchcraft boards here on the UK forums being built to last, they do several constructions one of which (no pun intended) is neigh on bullet proof!

A Witchcraft custom in extra heavy duty construction has a conditional 24month warranty. A 100lt board weighs in at approx 7.5kg and costs AUS$3,550 without extras - custom paint, heelpads etc. Shipping from Europe is anywhere from AUS $250 - $500.

I wouldn't have a problem delivering a similar product at a competitive price point.

My current board has an Innegra ply top and bottom and is performing well having been pushed hard in the ocean on the WA Coast particularly Scarbs which is notoriously lumpy. I have only used a single layer of 2oz but really pleased with it - my next board will use an additional of Innegra all over. It will mean additional bagging but for the durability I am looking for I think its worth it.

If you speak with Witchcraft or any good board designer here too, a board is only as strong as its weakest element. In custom boards that is the EPS core. Thats the one element that will undo all the clever engineering of the 'sandwich'.

Cobra do a lot of things well and not least, a well engineered EPS core. We can achieve similar here however I cannot convince a foam manufacturer to produce this without a minimum order the equivalent of some 200 boards - so that option is shelved for the moment as mass production is not on my agenda. So some careful treatment of the EPS we can get is key.

competitive price point for a custom board in Australia is $2400. if you are being competitive with witchcraft then you're in the super profit range. especially considering I know how much it costs to make a board.

Here's a cross section of a 2012 slalom board that had an inherent weakness at the wingers and a lack of wetted out glass between the EPS core and PVC (3mm) layer. Everyone knows the story so I won't bore anyone with details.

PS - Hello Ian

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Gestalt said..

competitive price point for a custom board in Australia is $2400. if you are being competitive with witchcraft then you're in the super profit range. especially considering I know how much it costs to make a board.

Ha that was quick - I was wondering where the first bullet would come from! I don't intend to compete for a share of the Australian market so not really relevant. In any case, working out of Perth, and for a one-off project, $3500 would not yield 'super profit'. If I tried to compete in this industry on price, I would go out of business pretty quickly.

Aaaanyway, my post was not really about money or drumming up business just sharing my experience, such as it is. Always learning.

Cheers!

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sausage said..

Here's a cross section of a 2012 slalom board that had an inherent weakness at the wingers and a lack of wetted out glass between the EPS core and PVC (3mm) layer. Everyone knows the story so I won't bore anyone with details.

PS - Hello Ian

There looks like a fish scale imbedded in it..

nah not a bullet, just a general comment.

maybe have a look around at what the custom guys in oz are charging.

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Man0verBoard said..

Gestalt said..

competitive price point for a custom board in Australia is $2400. if you are being competitive with witchcraft then you're in the super profit range. especially considering I know how much it costs to make a board.

Ha that was quick - I was wondering where the first bullet would come from! I don't intend to compete for a share of the Australian market so not really relevant. In any case, working out of Perth, and for a one-off project, $3500 would not yield 'super profit'. If I tried to compete in this industry on price, I would go out of business pretty quickly.

Aaaanyway, my post was not really about money or drumming up business just sharing my experience, such as it is. Always learning.

Cheers!

Cool Gestalt. Yep my hat's off to them for what they can produce for that cost - its remarkable.

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Gestalt said...
competitive price point for a custom board in Australia is $2400. if you are being competitive with witchcraft then you're in the super profit range. especially considering I know how much it costs to make a board.

"Super profit range" I guess it comes down to how much you value yourself and what you value your time is worth. At 2400 after subtracting board materials and workshop overheads eg rent insurance electricity tools etc that's a crap hourly rate for a hand made work of art pleasure machine.
Oh and another thing while im on my soap box repairs are way too cheap too
If you took a board to a panel beaters for repair it would cost a small fortunes yet what we do is basically like panel building.
I also don't do repairs anymore.

I get seriously looked after by my board builder. I know what he pays for materials and what I buy it for and it's fair to say he is doing me a lot of favours.

Back when I worked in board factory...some of the cobra boards I saw in for repair were pretty sad sight when you scratched beneath the surface. Ones that made me laugh the most were black pigmented resin on glass (Trying to pretend it was carbon?!) and the ones that were rusty on the inside from staples in the cloth
My Carbon Art waveboard has done me proud (yes I may be biased living in Taranaki but it's still true ha!), I've smashed that thing on the rocks so many times it's ridiculous, if you've seen the beaches here you'll know why they're built to last

I wonder how much production boards rely on the average sailor not getting out a whole lot? Same could be said of some the new wetsuits too...they can be a joke compared to the old days, admittedly more stretchy, but they should still last longer than a season!

We had this discussion on 'another' forum (in the UK)....and apparently (it seems) that there are 'very few boards' (if any) that fail over here.....hmmmm

So, here is my experience:
One of my boards which had been out for a mere 20 sessions in one season and then put away for Winter (inside the house, with the valve screw open) has developed small fractures (in places) on the top surface. the board was taken back to the dealer as it is still under warranty, and was told that they had "not seen anything like it". Photographs have been taken and sent to the distributor and manufacturer. That was one week ago.....

Lonewolf, can you possibly tell us what board it is?

Not atm....

Board companies every year are face with the public wanting lighter and cheaper boards, you just can't make a board with all the high tech materials without paying for it.we can't blame Cobra for for the materials in these boards after all they are made to specification set down by the board companies. Actually I am surprised how strong the boards from Cobra are with the materials they are left with to use.

Your kidding right. You're blaming the buyer. That's messed up. And you got green thumbs.

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Man0verBoard said..
A Witchcraft custom in extra heavy duty construction has a conditional 24month warranty. A 100lt board weighs in at approx 7.5kg and costs AUS$3,550 without extras - custom paint, heelpads etc. Shipping from Europe is anywhere from AUS $250 - $500.

From what I have heard from sailors of the HDD Witchcraft boards they are bomb proof!

witchcraft.nu/

They is a youtube clip somewhere of the company beating the board with a lump hammer. Didn't make a single mark

Do these new production boards include the use of a ply stringer like the old custom made ones?

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Gestalt said..

Your kidding right. You're blaming the buyer. That's messed up. And you got green thumbs.

I think he's got a point. Sort of. If you have the choice between a stronger (and heavier) board, and a light one that will probably be a bit more fragile, which one are most people going to choose? The people that I see always do the 'wow, that board is really light' test. More correctly, they pick up my boards that I repair/modify/destroy myself, and go "wow, that board's heavy!". Despite me trying to argue that the weight of a board has little to do with the way it handles, no one else seems to agree, and no doubt buy expensive light-weight boards. The same boards that will no doubt have weight-saving construction attempts and be a little bit delicate. (I am not thin enough to justify a light-weight board!)

If a manufacturer offered similar boards but with different construction types you might see that ultimately the stronger ones last longer, but by then, the board is old and people have moved on and bought the newest light-weight board.

What would probably make a difference is where manufacturers say their new boards is 9kgs and their competitors say that their new similar board is 6.5kgs. A lot of people are going to pick up the light board and think its better than the heavier one.

I think it is also fair to say that some manufacturers are not aware of the beating that some equipment is getting these days, particularly since the advent of GPS competitions. Lots of people are sailing much longer distances now as opposed to people to who do the odd fortnightly session and spend less than an hour in the water. There's a fair few guys doing long days in rough water (not just choppy water) - on our team one guy did 10,000k in just one year. Under these sorts of usage rates deficiencies will be found out and reputations won and lost.

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FormulaNova said..

Gestalt said..

Your kidding right. You're blaming the buyer. That's messed up. And you got green thumbs.

I think he's got a point. Sort of. If you have the choice between a stronger (and heavier) board, and a light one that will probably be a bit more fragile, which one are most people going to choose? The people that I see always do the 'wow, that board is really light' test. More correctly, they pick up my boards that I repair/modify/destroy myself, and go "wow, that board's heavy!". Despite me trying to argue that the weight of a board has little to do with the way it handles, no one else seems to agree, and no doubt buy expensive light-weight boards. The same boards that will no doubt have weight-saving construction attempts and be a little bit delicate. (I am not thin enough to justify a light-weight board!)

If a manufacturer offered similar boards but with different construction types you might see that ultimately the stronger ones last longer, but by then, the board is old and people have moved on and bought the newest light-weight board.

What would probably make a difference is where manufacturers say their new boards is 9kgs and their competitors say that their new similar board is 6.5kgs. A lot of people are going to pick up the light board and think its better than the heavier one.

Well said.
I think its amusing all the faulty human scales on the beach, who walk around and pick up boards and comment on the weight of boards I have weighed and they are so wrong in their guesses.

all of my boards are heavier, your preaching to the converted here. like you I'm also heavier so get my boards built heavier.

this thread cracks me up.

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FormulaNova said..

Gestalt said..

Your kidding right. You're blaming the buyer. That's messed up. And you got green thumbs.

I think he's got a point. Sort of. If you have the choice between a stronger (and heavier) board, and a light one that will probably be a bit more fragile, which one are most people going to choose? The people that I see always do the 'wow, that board is really light' test. More correctly, they pick up my boards that I repair/modify/destroy myself, and go "wow, that board's heavy!". Despite me trying to argue that the weight of a board has little to do with the way it handles, no one else seems to agree, and no doubt buy expensive light-weight boards. The same boards that will no doubt have weight-saving construction attempts and be a little bit delicate. (I am not thin enough to justify a light-weight board!)

If a manufacturer offered similar boards but with different construction types you might see that ultimately the stronger ones last longer, but by then, the board is old and people have moved on and bought the newest light-weight board.

What would probably make a difference is where manufacturers say their new boards is 9kgs and their competitors say that their new similar board is 6.5kgs. A lot of people are going to pick up the light board and think its better than the heavier one.

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easty said..

I've seen a board fly off the roof racks at 100kph, do some spins in the air and smash onto the bitumen.
Sailed it half an hour later.
Ok, it was 1985. Windsurfer OD.

Were you billed for road rapairs