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azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

Most people know how to read the wind and cloud patterns and get back to the beach before a squall hits. For those that are a little late in or have no idea of how to read the conditions, they will usually head straight to shore, as already pointed out, most kiters don't head too far out anyway. Everyone keeps an eye out and will be ready to land someone in trouble or coming in hot, or they can use their safety release when close to shore. The important factor is to land the kite before you exit the water, being in water provides resistance to being dragged.

Select to expand quote

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

If out on the water and the wind increases in strength to a dangerous level then do NOT head back to the beach but head out a distance that gives you safety and ride out the wind away from land. This time last year I was with a kiter that went back to the beach during a squall and they ended up in hospital in a bad way because on land you cannot depower a kite as much as on water.
Kiting and windsurfing both have their pros and cons but in the end your out on the water having fun. Glad I do both and would be poorer if I just did one.

Select to expand quote

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

For some (read Slowboat, Spotti, Vando, Brad), 30+kn squalls is opportunity!

For the rest of us meer mortals, dropping the rig can be lifesaving.

Select to expand quote

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

When kiting I'm heading in when the sky turns dark.
Squalls one thing, lightning another.
if on my own I'll get onto the beach and drop the kite into the water.
sadly witnessed looping kites dragging kiters along the beach.
plus drying a wet kite is a mission compared to 4.5m sail.

As a windfoiler I'm starting to ride with the local freeride kitefoiler and find they can chug through the lulls better them me but are usually on a much bigger rig and probably smaller foil. For example today small gusty lake 12-23kts. I was on a 4.2 sail and he was on a 8m kite(A bit overpowered). I was keeping up in the gusts but had to pump the sail along to stay up in lulls. It looks hard to master gybes on a kitefoil. Never tryed kitesurfing so can only watch and assume. He only goes out in a certain wind directions and doesn't venture too far upwind or downwind. I'm yet to see them out when I'm flying on a 6.0 sail in 8-12kts. I understand this is very limited data from what I can tell so far.

I think if your a windsurfer your more likely to pickup windfoiling with more success then kitesurfing/foiling since you already have the skills and gear.

Kiting is wake boarding, windsurfing is sailing

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choco said..
Kiting is wake boarding, windsurfing is sailing

Windsurfing is sailing an 18ft skiff

Planing is a very different feeling than riding an edge

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dowls said..

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

When kiting I'm heading in when the sky turns dark.
Squalls one thing, lightning another.
if on my own I'll get onto the beach and drop the kite into the water.
sadly witnessed looping kites dragging kiters along the beach.
plus drying a wet kite is a mission compared to 4.5m sail.

Do you have to dry kites?!

Select to expand quote

Faff said..

dowls said..

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

When kiting I'm heading in when the sky turns dark.
Squalls one thing, lightning another.
if on my own I'll get onto the beach and drop the kite into the water.
sadly witnessed looping kites dragging kiters along the beach.
plus drying a wet kite is a mission compared to 4.5m sail.

Do you have to dry kites?!

Yes, if you get caught in a rain squall.

Select to expand quote

Hardcarve1 said..

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

If out on the water and the wind increases in strength to a dangerous level then do NOT head back to the beach but head out a distance that gives you safety and ride out the wind away from land. This time last year I was with a kiter that went back to the beach during a squall and they ended up in hospital in a bad way because on land you cannot depower a kite as much as on water.
Kiting and windsurfing both have their pros and cons but in the end your out on the water having fun. Glad I do both and would be poorer if I just did one.

Of course there are pro and cons when it comes to performance, but when it comes to risk of injury or death a Kite unfortunately has a huge advantage. Case in the example: there is no safe procedure possible if you are caught severely overpowered. Assuming one can sail in, one could damp the kite just before reaching the beach, otherwise there is real trouble: one can wait in the water? good luck with that ...

Select to expand quote

duzzi said..

Hardcarve1 said..

azuli said..
Whats the procedure for kites when a storm squall hits while you are on the water ?
Have been hit with 30+kn squalls a few times when windsurfing offshore, and have just dropped the rig and sat it out,
not sure how you do that with a kite?

If out on the water and the wind increases in strength to a dangerous level then do NOT head back to the beach but head out a distance that gives you safety and ride out the wind away from land. This time last year I was with a kiter that went back to the beach during a squall and they ended up in hospital in a bad way because on land you cannot depower a kite as much as on water.
Kiting and windsurfing both have their pros and cons but in the end your out on the water having fun. Glad I do both and would be poorer if I just did one.

Of course there are pro and cons when it comes to performance, but when it comes to risk of injury or death a Kite unfortunately has a huge advantage. Case in the example: there is no safe procedure possible if you are caught severely overpowered. Assuming one can sail in, one could damp the kite just before reaching the beach, otherwise there is real trouble: one can wait in the water? good luck with that ...

Disclaimer: never done it.

I think many (most?) kiters (and judging by the defensive reactions, some windsurfers) consider KS to be WS 2.0. I don't think that's the case at all. One is not a better version of the other - they are different sports, with wind and water being the only thing in common. Kind of like cars versus motorbikes. I like this analogy because just like with motorbikes, kites have extra inherent risks which can be only somewhat mitigated, but not completely eliminated, which makes the sport more dangerous overall.

The last time I looked into KS, I watched this:



Amazing to read some of the comments "never learnt, was never taught to do this".

Anyway, real water(wo)men should be doing it all: WS, KS, SUP, surf, Wingthing, and all of the above on a foil. Campello on a kite:

www.facebook.com/ricardocampellov111/videos/840151036391109/

I've windsurfed for 20 years plus and kiteboarded for 10. I can honestly say it is so much easier getting your kiteboarding gear to the beach on your push-bike. Plus you don't get a sore neck balancing a rigged wave-board on your head.

Windsurfed for over 20 years, kitesurfed for last 20 years and kitefoiled for the last 3 years.

There are so many variables with regard to your local wind and beach so my experience is what suits my area. I found when windsurfing it became a bit repetitive after a while, and I think that also depends on those around you. Also if you're a bit lazy, rigging and derigging windsurf gear is a bit of a drag.

Kiting 20 years ago was new and exciting... and dangerous! It was classified as an extreme sport which made it all the more attractive even though there were deaths and injuries. Starting with 2 line kites was hard and safety gear was an afterthought. But after a while the kites and boards developed and you could kite just about anywhere in any conditions. It became relatively easy to learn and mowing the lawn just like windsurfers did made it a bit repetitive. Kiting in waves just like windsurfing in waves was great, however when there was good wind there were rarely good waves

Then foiling came along and like all windsports, the early gear was crude and put me off a bit. But the next season the foil gear looked usable so I gave it a go. It was like starting all over again and there were lots of sharp or pointy bits to fall on and bruises, cuts and torn muscles were frequent. But it was worth sticking with. First came the buzz of just being able to foil and then came the buzz of being able to foil on surf foils in really light wind and have fun while everyone else was waiting for more wind.

Kitefoiling was progressing and the foils were good and you only needed a tiny board of around a metre, so you could carry that gear in one hand. Kites however presented a lot of choices. Best performance in light wind was a twin skin foil kite, $$$, long lasting but slow, or a dedicated LEI single or no strut kite. Either of these choices stayed in the air better than regular LEI kites in light wind, but both needed a bit of setup or pumping to get ready. Stronger wind was ok with small regular inflatable kites, so if I had a range of gear I could foil in almost any wind.

Foiling gives you lots of opportunity to get better and develop technique so it wasn't boring. However one day I read in a forum about some German guy using a tiny 3m snow kite with a surf foil and saying it was great. The kite was a Flysurfer Peak4, and as I import and sell Flysurfer kites and the Peak4 kites were inexpensive, I thought I had nothing to lose by giving it a go. I already had used the Flysurfer Soul and it was good with a foil, but the Peak4 was a simple single skin kite which wasn't designed for water use and may not even be relaunchable. However I've always been keen to try something new especially when some German guy I don't know makes a persuasive case with a video as proof!

I had bought a 3m Peak4 as it was the cheapest and waited until I had about 15 knots of wind. I took the kite, which only weighed a bit over 600grams, and unrolled it on the beach and connected a standard 4 line bar to it. It looked like a trainer kite, not like something that could actually pull you along in the water. The bridles were relatively simple and I just put sand on the trailing edge and hot launched the kite. After all it looked too small to pull very hard and I had read it had great depower. So I launched it depowered and it didn't pull hard at all. Maybe I've bought a pup? However when I flew the kite hard with the bar in, it did pull and the kite was fast, faster than any other kite I had used. Note to self, be careful not to crash it in the water.

So I grabbed my foilboard got out to a decent depth and tried to get the kite to pull me up on the board. The wind had dropped a bit below 15 knots and getting my 65kg out of the water wasn't happening. I kept at it, flogging the kite all over the sky until the wind picked up a knot or two and I was on the board. Some more fast sining of the kite and I was foiling. There was not a lot of pull from the kite, but there was enough. A good surf foil is very efficient. After carefully getting used to the feel and speed of the kite I became more adventurous and that's when I felt the drift... So much drift!! I could catch some small wind chop and ride it and the kite just got out of the way, drifting along until I needed it. Then just sheet in the bar, gybe, head back upwind and catch some more chop, swell or waves.

I was sold. The Peak4 felt like no other kite. For surf foiling nothing compared. I quickly ordered the 5m Peak4 and when I got it I found I could start foiling in 8 to 10 knots... and have fun
With the 3m and 5m Peak4 half the price of most inflatable kites, I could have outrageous fun in a wide range of wind. I could carry kites, foil and board to the beach under one arm, just lay the kite on the sand, unroll the lines and with one pull be airborne. With no pumping I could be on the water quicker than anyone else and derig quicker too, as the kites are easy and safe to land. Not dangerous either. Just crash the kite and it collapses into a pile of cloth.
As for crashing the kite on the water, yes I did crash the 3m a couple of times. It was so fast and caught me out and I had to swim in twice. But since then I've found I can relaunch the kite most of the time. There's a bit of a technique to it but it's quite water relaunchable. The 5m has never hit the water. It's not as fast and the Peak4 kites will still fly in 3-4 knots, so they only hit the water if you fly them into it.

I've since sold quite a few Peak4 kites to surf foilers. Once they've flown one, other kites seem deficient, and often it becomes their most used kite/s. (If you buy one Peak4 you'll usually buy another. Though the 5m has a great range.)
All credit to Horst, the German who started this thread kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224 which made me try a Peak4. Curiosity has its benefits and it's not often that the best product ends up being something thats low cost compared to everything else.
If you're into speed and have race foils then theres not much advantage with the Peak4. But if you want to surf foil, and not get into the expense of an entire bulky wingfoil setup, the Peak4 may suit you best

Select to expand quote

drsurf said..
Windsurfed for over 20 years, kitesurfed for last 20 years and kitefoiled for the last 3 years.

There are so many variables with regard to your local wind and beach so my experience is what suits my area. I found when windsurfing it became a bit repetitive after a while, and I think that also depends on those around you. Also if you're a bit lazy, rigging and derigging windsurf gear is a bit of a drag.

Kiting 20 years ago was new and exciting... and dangerous! It was classified as an extreme sport which made it all the more attractive even though there were deaths and injuries. Starting with 2 line kites was hard and safety gear was an afterthought. But after a while the kites and boards developed and you could kite just about anywhere in any conditions. It became relatively easy to learn and mowing the lawn just like windsurfers did made it a bit repetitive. Kiting in waves just like windsurfing in waves was great, however when there was good wind there were rarely good waves

Then foiling came along and like all windsports, the early gear was crude and put me off a bit. But the next season the foil gear looked usable so I gave it a go. It was like starting all over again and there were lots of sharp or pointy bits to fall on and bruises, cuts and torn muscles were frequent. But it was worth sticking with. First came the buzz of just being able to foil and then came the buzz of being able to foil on surf foils in really light wind and have fun while everyone else was waiting for more wind.

Kitefoiling was progressing and the foils were good and you only needed a tiny board of around a metre, so you could carry that gear in one hand. Kites however presented a lot of choices. Best performance in light wind was a twin skin foil kite, $$$, long lasting but slow, or a dedicated LEI single or no strut kite. Either of these choices stayed in the air better than regular LEI kites in light wind, but both needed a bit of setup or pumping to get ready. Stronger wind was ok with small regular inflatable kites, so if I had a range of gear I could foil in almost any wind.

Foiling gives you lots of opportunity to get better and develop technique so it wasn't boring. However one day I read in a forum about some German guy using a tiny 3m snow kite with a surf foil and saying it was great. The kite was a Flysurfer Peak4, and as I import and sell Flysurfer kites and the Peak4 kites were inexpensive, I thought I had nothing to lose by giving it a go. I already had used the Flysurfer Soul and it was good with a foil, but the Peak4 was a simple single skin kite which wasn't designed for water use and may not even be relaunchable. However I've always been keen to try something new especially when some German guy I don't know makes a persuasive case with a video as proof!

I had bought a 3m Peak4 as it was the cheapest and waited until I had about 15 knots of wind. I took the kite, which only weighed a bit over 600grams, and unrolled it on the beach and connected a standard 4 line bar to it. It looked like a trainer kite, not like something that could actually pull you along in the water. The bridles were relatively simple and I just put sand on the trailing edge and hot launched the kite. After all it looked too small to pull very hard and I had read it had great depower. So I launched it depowered and it didn't pull hard at all. Maybe I've bought a pup? However when I flew the kite hard with the bar in, it did pull and the kite was fast, faster than any other kite I had used. Note to self, be careful not to crash it in the water.

So I grabbed my foilboard got out to a decent depth and tried to get the kite to pull me up on the board. The wind had dropped a bit below 15 knots and getting my 65kg out of the water wasn't happening. I kept at it, flogging the kite all over the sky until the wind picked up a knot or two and I was on the board. Some more fast sining of the kite and I was foiling. There was not a lot of pull from the kite, but there was enough. A good surf foil is very efficient. After carefully getting used to the feel and speed of the kite I became more adventurous and that's when I felt the drift... So much drift!! I could catch some small wind chop and ride it and the kite just got out of the way, drifting along until I needed it. Then just sheet in the bar, gybe, head back upwind and catch some more chop, swell or waves.

I was sold. The Peak4 felt like no other kite. For surf foiling nothing compared. I quickly ordered the 5m Peak4 and when I got it I found I could start foiling in 8 to 10 knots... and have fun
With the 3m and 5m Peak4 half the price of most inflatable kites, I could have outrageous fun in a wide range of wind. I could carry kites, foil and board to the beach under one arm, just lay the kite on the sand, unroll the lines and with one pull be airborne. With no pumping I could be on the water quicker than anyone else and derig quicker too, as the kites are easy and safe to land. Not dangerous either. Just crash the kite and it collapses into a pile of cloth.
As for crashing the kite on the water, yes I did crash the 3m a couple of times. It was so fast and caught me out and I had to swim in twice. But since then I've found I can relaunch the kite most of the time. There's a bit of a technique to it but it's quite water relaunchable. The 5m has never hit the water. It's not as fast and the Peak4 kites will still fly in 3-4 knots, so they only hit the water if you fly them into it.

I've since sold quite a few Peak4 kites to surf foilers. Once they've flown one, other kites seem deficient, and often it becomes their most used kite/s. (If you buy one Peak4 you'll usually buy another. Though the 5m has a great range.)
All credit to Horst, the German who started this thread kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224 which made me try a Peak4. Curiosity has its benefits and it's not often that the best product ends up being something thats low cost compared to everything else.
If you're into speed and have race foils then theres not much advantage with the Peak4. But if you want to surf foil, and not get into the expense of an entire bulky wingfoil setup, the Peak4 may suit you best

Cool post. I started kiting back in the 2 line days. It took me a year to go up wind.

I guess the point of your post, is to experiment and be open to different things

Select to expand quote

drsurf said..
Windsurfed for over 20 years, kitesurfed for last 20 years and kitefoiled for the last 3 years.

There are so many variables with regard to your local wind and beach so my experience is what suits my area. I found when windsurfing it became a bit repetitive after a while, and I think that also depends on those around you. Also if you're a bit lazy, rigging and derigging windsurf gear is a bit of a drag.

Kiting 20 years ago was new and exciting... and dangerous! It was classified as an extreme sport which made it all the more attractive even though there were deaths and injuries. Starting with 2 line kites was hard and safety gear was an afterthought. But after a while the kites and boards developed and you could kite just about anywhere in any conditions. It became relatively easy to learn and mowing the lawn just like windsurfers did made it a bit repetitive. Kiting in waves just like windsurfing in waves was great, however when there was good wind there were rarely good waves

Then foiling came along and like all windsports, the early gear was crude and put me off a bit. But the next season the foil gear looked usable so I gave it a go. It was like starting all over again and there were lots of sharp or pointy bits to fall on and bruises, cuts and torn muscles were frequent. But it was worth sticking with. First came the buzz of just being able to foil and then came the buzz of being able to foil on surf foils in really light wind and have fun while everyone else was waiting for more wind.

Kitefoiling was progressing and the foils were good and you only needed a tiny board of around a metre, so you could carry that gear in one hand. Kites however presented a lot of choices. Best performance in light wind was a twin skin foil kite, $$$, long lasting but slow, or a dedicated LEI single or no strut kite. Either of these choices stayed in the air better than regular LEI kites in light wind, but both needed a bit of setup or pumping to get ready. Stronger wind was ok with small regular inflatable kites, so if I had a range of gear I could foil in almost any wind.

Foiling gives you lots of opportunity to get better and develop technique so it wasn't boring. However one day I read in a forum about some German guy using a tiny 3m snow kite with a surf foil and saying it was great. The kite was a Flysurfer Peak4, and as I import and sell Flysurfer kites and the Peak4 kites were inexpensive, I thought I had nothing to lose by giving it a go. I already had used the Flysurfer Soul and it was good with a foil, but the Peak4 was a simple single skin kite which wasn't designed for water use and may not even be relaunchable. However I've always been keen to try something new especially when some German guy I don't know makes a persuasive case with a video as proof!

I had bought a 3m Peak4 as it was the cheapest and waited until I had about 15 knots of wind. I took the kite, which only weighed a bit over 600grams, and unrolled it on the beach and connected a standard 4 line bar to it. It looked like a trainer kite, not like something that could actually pull you along in the water. The bridles were relatively simple and I just put sand on the trailing edge and hot launched the kite. After all it looked too small to pull very hard and I had read it had great depower. So I launched it depowered and it didn't pull hard at all. Maybe I've bought a pup? However when I flew the kite hard with the bar in, it did pull and the kite was fast, faster than any other kite I had used. Note to self, be careful not to crash it in the water.

So I grabbed my foilboard got out to a decent depth and tried to get the kite to pull me up on the board. The wind had dropped a bit below 15 knots and getting my 65kg out of the water wasn't happening. I kept at it, flogging the kite all over the sky until the wind picked up a knot or two and I was on the board. Some more fast sining of the kite and I was foiling. There was not a lot of pull from the kite, but there was enough. A good surf foil is very efficient. After carefully getting used to the feel and speed of the kite I became more adventurous and that's when I felt the drift... So much drift!! I could catch some small wind chop and ride it and the kite just got out of the way, drifting along until I needed it. Then just sheet in the bar, gybe, head back upwind and catch some more chop, swell or waves.

I was sold. The Peak4 felt like no other kite. For surf foiling nothing compared. I quickly ordered the 5m Peak4 and when I got it I found I could start foiling in 8 to 10 knots... and have fun
With the 3m and 5m Peak4 half the price of most inflatable kites, I could have outrageous fun in a wide range of wind. I could carry kites, foil and board to the beach under one arm, just lay the kite on the sand, unroll the lines and with one pull be airborne. With no pumping I could be on the water quicker than anyone else and derig quicker too, as the kites are easy and safe to land. Not dangerous either. Just crash the kite and it collapses into a pile of cloth.
As for crashing the kite on the water, yes I did crash the 3m a couple of times. It was so fast and caught me out and I had to swim in twice. But since then I've found I can relaunch the kite most of the time. There's a bit of a technique to it but it's quite water relaunchable. The 5m has never hit the water. It's not as fast and the Peak4 kites will still fly in 3-4 knots, so they only hit the water if you fly them into it.

I've since sold quite a few Peak4 kites to surf foilers. Once they've flown one, other kites seem deficient, and often it becomes their most used kite/s. (If you buy one Peak4 you'll usually buy another. Though the 5m has a great range.)
All credit to Horst, the German who started this thread kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224 which made me try a Peak4. Curiosity has its benefits and it's not often that the best product ends up being something thats low cost compared to everything else.
If you're into speed and have race foils then theres not much advantage with the Peak4. But if you want to surf foil, and not get into the expense of an entire bulky wingfoil setup, the Peak4 may suit you best

Lov'n the enthusiasm. Great post

Select to expand quote

kiter49 said..
I windsurfed 20 years and then went to kitesurfing 20years , now back to windsurfing but windfoil only , I still take a ride on a kite once in a while to relax , I like both but honestly the more I windfoil the least I feel like to mess with a kite , the thing is with windfoiling /windsurfing the launch spots are almost everywhere and it is easy to find a quiet spot since the kiters don't have room to launch or are not allowed to kite for certain reasons . I can leave the beach before the thermals get in and sail upwind slowly to get at the best spot when the thermals kicks in , I can adjust my rig and take a break offshore , feed myself relax and give a rest to my muscles for 10 minutes all this offshore and then start again to enjoy my day . Regarding light air , yes kitefoilers ( especially the light weight persons that I call jealously the crickets ...) with the best light air equipment and good skill will stay longer on the water than me when the wind begin to die down ,but I can still sail slowly and enjoy the place while going back to my launch spot , and honestly living directly on the beach I can assure you that very often while derigging I see these kitefoilers swimming back to shore a short time after me .
To get a very efficient light air kitefoil rig is like to get a very nice 4/4 pick-up : you just get stuck further in the field hi hi .

I like both and I am currently waiting for my new JP Slalom 176 and 2 new very light kites (to get stuck further .. :) with my *cricket* girlfriend .

To resume : windsurfing is physical and best for top shape persons and kitesurfing is for people who need to rest and / or between windsurfing sessions.
Light air : kitesurfing
Strong winds : windsurfing
Both are fantastics water activities .