Hi, I am after some advice re where to go from here in relation to a new board. I have been windsurfing, on and off, for about 8 years but feel like I haven’t really improved on the last 5. I don’t get to go as often as I like.

I started with a 180l JP Funster and then bought a JP X-cite ride 120. I can plane most of the time (when others are), get into the foot-straps but can’t gybe to save my life and only water-start 40% of the time. What really annoys me about the X-cite ride is the rough deck, and I end most sessions with bleeding knees from climbing up on it to up-haul (60% of the time). I find it pretty hard to tack when it’s rough. This put a dampener on the whole experience.

I enjoy the stability of the 180l and feel much more confident going out further because I know I can tack and get back. But obviously it's harder to get on the plane.

I am about 80kg and have a 6.5 NP Ryde, old 7.2 NP and an 8.2 H2.

Should I:
a) preserve with the 120l and suck it up
b) go for something around the 145l range with a soft deck (like the X-cite ride 145 family or a Starboard go)?
c) Go for something else.

Would a bigger board help in learning to carve gybe and/or would the early panning ability be too compromised?

Thanks

I guess it's not cold enough where you are to wear a wetsuit? Wear lycra pants or a stinger suit then (it also saves on sunscreen).

I'd suggest a long holiday somewhere windy and flat. That's how I made most of my progress (I'm a slow learner).

145L would certainly help a bit.
Having said that, I suggest to lose the uphaul rope and find a shallow area where you can focus on waterstaring and nothing else.
Then, your current board will be perfect for the next stage.

I can't give you any advice on gybing...
But waterstarting will greatly improve your experience.

I'd keep the 120L and take a day or 2 (or more) to practice the waterstart as you will probably be happy to have it once you will get better at jibing and get the plane or simply going in stronger wind.
Also, you can still use the 180L when it is lighter.

Yes i would invest in a 140-150
freeride board.its just practise you need.I still uphaul and tack its a must to keep those skills if your out the back and the wind drops on a short board.keep at it .

Hi, Ive been sailing for a long time and invested in a buoyancy vest, love it! added confidence while in the water while manoeuvring the sail but not taxing energy. A vest could help but you should spend time practicing to getting waterstarts happening all the time.
6.5 & 5.5 NP Ryde & 118l JP board.

keep at it!

Gybe ...yes the bigger board will help in practise,you don't sink as much and because they gybe slower it gives you extra time ..big part of it is posture ,and to keep your pressure on your feet...you do them slow to start then get faster and faster ..until its just a throw around ...the DVD. wet &salty has a demonstration extra DVD in it .on gybe ing ever way you can think ..by the worlds best ..it's a must ..I'm learning all the tricky ones ,still....you can still teach a old dog a trick of two . 145 x cite maybe .it gybe s nice .dont spend to much you will be back on that 120 in no time .great size.
i use a 124 lit and a 105 litre.

It is too hard to waterstart anything bigger than 120L when u r learning, as you can't get a leg over to centreline as easy (unless you are over 6ft)
Watch heaps of youtube / read instructionals so you can visualise it, then practice on a windy day. The best day to learn to waterstart is the day where it is hard NOT to get lofted out of the water.

I know it may not be that windy where you are but the key to carve gybing is practice heaps on flat water and constant wind and as often as possible. There is plenty of threads here on actual gybe technique.

Keep the excite ride for those fun short board bump and jump sessions and trade in the 180ltr on a raceboard, your TOW will be doubled or tripled and a whole new windsurfing experience will be opened up for you as you discover you can sail whenever and where ever you want.

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Mark _australia said..
It is too hard to waterstart anything bigger than 120L when u r learning, as you can't get a leg over to centreline as easy (unless you are over 6ft)
Watch heaps of youtube / read instructionals so you can visualise it, then practice on a windy day. The best day to learn to waterstart is the day where it is hard NOT to get lofted out of the water.

I know it may not be that windy where you are but the key to carve gybing is practice heaps on flat water and constant wind and as often as possible. There is plenty of threads here on actual gybe technique.

As long as I wear a flotation device (usually an impact vest), I find water starting my 137 lit board no problem at all, even with a 8.5 camber induced sail.

Only sails larger than a camber induced 8.5m2 are difficult to water start because the luff pocket fills with water and it is difficult to fly the sail when treading water, even when wearing a flotation device.

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John340 said..

Mark _australia said..
It is too hard to waterstart anything bigger than 120L when u r learning, as you can't get a leg over to centreline as easy (unless you are over 6ft)
Watch heaps of youtube / read instructionals so you can visualise it, then practice on a windy day. The best day to learn to waterstart is the day where it is hard NOT to get lofted out of the water.

I know it may not be that windy where you are but the key to carve gybing is practice heaps on flat water and constant wind and as often as possible. There is plenty of threads here on actual gybe technique.

As long as I wear a flotation device (usually an impact vest), I find water starting my 137 lit board no problem at all, even with a 8.5 camber induced sail.

Only sails larger than a camber induced 8.5m2 are difficult to water start because the luff pocket fills with water and it is difficult to fly the sail when treading water, even when wearing a flotation device.

Ah it's not just me! ( 7-7.5m for me)

The 120l board should be ideal for your weight and skill.

You MUST learn to water start properly. You should NEVER be uphauling if there is enough wind to water start.

I put it off for years, but then bit the bullet, and practiced for a few dedicated sessions. Not practiced once or twice, but practiced again and again and again for two or three entire sessions. Once you can do it properly, you will enjoy your windsurfing so much more.

Once you can water start easily, you won't care about falling in, which will then boost your confidence in learning to gybe.

Water starting is the key, and I'm with Mark on this one, practice on a windy day. Two things stop you water starting, not enough wind and technique, watch youtube and visualize. Be careful not to make a quick decision until you get this sorted, I would stick with the smaller board, then make the call after you water start. Gybing is Gybing, the majority of us battle with it, but keep practicing.

Like others have said... Water starting for sure is the key to progress... Just spend a few sessions where you do nothing but water starting ... Ideally somewhere that is waist deep to begin then go deeper. I wouldn't bother with a bigger board. Even if you don't get jibing down for a while you can have a lot of fun blasting then laying down sail in correct position for a water start in the opposite direction.... Persevere ..

There is an instructional DVD called "the ABCs of water starting" by Dasher ( I think it's called that , I haven't looked at it for a while ). Well worth a look

On the topic of water starting, my mentors advised me to practice in knee depth water or in water where you can stand. Less water ingestion. It worked for me

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BSN101 said..
Hi, Ive been sailing for a long time and invested in a buoyancy vest, love it! added confidence while in the water while manoeuvring the sail but not taxing energy. A vest could help but you should spend time practicing to getting waterstarts happening all the time.

I wholeheartedly agree. I bought an NP high hook vest, and it really helps to take some of the work out of water starting. Learning to waterstart without the vest and a wettie, means a very high cardio workout and premature exhaustion ( in my case). Plus a sense of security when the wind does drop out on a board to small to uphaul.

I learned to waterstart on the JP XCite Ride 146L with the soft deck. I disagree with the opinion that you need a lot of wind. This is because there is more chop and the likelihood of getting thrown off as quick as you get up. The key to water starting is in the technique and there is plenty of good coaches out there on YouTube or DVD. Think about the arms and foot positions. Fly the sail up rather than rely upon the wind's brute force. Learning to gybe and tack will give you plenty of practice with waterstarts. Practicing both go hand in hand. Buoyancy vests help limit the exertion, but make sure your harness and vest are a good fit, because it is rather tricky when you rise out of the water with the vest and harness wrapped around your chest and shoulders!

My my primary board now is 107L . It is easier to waterstart than the 146 because it does not float as high. The back foot gets into position easier too. Furthermore, the 145 tends to have a mind of its own when it is very choppy and windy...likes to point into the wind. Try getting the board and sail into position then. Likewise, if you want sail the 146 in winds over 20 knots then you will find it a bit of a bouncy ride. On the other hand, it is great board to have for those low wind days because it can take a wide range of sails, even up to about 10m. Just remember to select the right fin for the conditions. The supplied fin is way to big for normal sailing (unless you like tail walking). Hope this feedback helps. It is worth the effort so keep persevering

Hi Mark

I would like to respectfully side with other Mark Australia on this.
I struggled for ages with waterstarting , very frustrated with myself, until I realised I was trying with the sail too small.
Once I got the power into the sail, I figured i our quickly.

Getting up in low winds comes later.

Thanks very much all for your advice. Will stick with what I have and get into practicing those water starts. You have also made my wife very happy with the majority of you advising not to buy a new board right now .
Cheers

My problems with learning to waterstart were because of trying in too light a wind. As it was explained to me, if it is strong enough to plane you can water start. I wouldn't bother trying to learn if the wind isn't strong enough to plane. When you are better at it you will need less wind.

I think that you should consider formula windsurfing. It's fun, it improves every aspect of your sailing, gets you fitter, and you spend more time on the water. You can improve your jibes and tacks, and keep the plane all the way through. Also you could always compete, and it's real fun!

To re-iterate what others said: "ABC of waterstarting" and NP high-hook vest - get both!

I'm sorry to say you have all missed the point.

You are party right. His board is fine. and yes he needs to practice. But if he practices the wrong thing it will take ages.

What he needs is a lesson. Find a local coach or go on a clinic. Guy crib comes to australia each summer.

If if you do this you will be water starting and gybing within a week.

My good friend did this and learnt to water start, gybe, tack, upwind 360, jump and heli tack in one season. He took two clinics. Guy crib in Vic. And the aloha clinic in maui. He is 85kg and 40 years old

Millpond, take a look at this web page.
www.easyuphaul.com/waterstarter/default.htm
On the right is a link to water start. I used the noodle for a while when learning. Best thing ever. Just follow the directions and you will be fine.
Big thing is if you can, stop the process of up-hauling if you don't need to do it. That is unless the breeze drops away too much.
Next don't get to comfortable with water starting, because if you do, then the gybe or tack isn't so important, and you will find you pike out to easily because you can water start in a blink.
Find a local windsurf school that can show you, in preference to a flash course by a top instructor. They don't have the time to do individual coaching on such courses. I have completed three courses, and find the frustration of each instructor over riding the previous guys tips a pain in the coit.
Any having had 3 of X-cite ride....... Don't sell it They are well balanced across the nose for tacking, unlike other boards that tend to sink rather fast when learning tacks across the front of the board.

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Yuppy said..
He took two clinics. Guy crib in Vic. And the aloha clinic in maui. He is 85kg and 40 years old

+$500 Clinic in Vic and $$$ for a Maui trip for a beginner.
And we wonder why windsurfing gets branded as expensive

I think the board is fine. Just need more TOW. Time on the water.

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Yuppy said..

If if you do this you will be water starting and gybing within a week.

I'm happy to accept that just about anyone can learn to water start in a week or so, but gybing also? From my experience, most sailboarders spend their entire sailing career working on gybing.

^ Huh, I think everyone has a different view on "gybing" success. For some it's powering into a gybe and flying out the other end at the same speed- that's my dream anyway.... For others it's simply getting around the corner without getting wet. Both are hard. The first one can take a life time...

Plus one on the pool noodle & flotation jacket then water starts are easy to learn .
The pool noodle keeping the boom on the water makes it a lot easier to fly free . I find it also helps orientate the board faster .
The beauty of it is you can shorten it over time Till its gone .

As all have said water starting is a priority.

id ask an experienced sailor to watch you and give you some tips. With water starts, just a slight adjustment in hand position on boom or angle of the board can make a big difference between a successful start and a splash.