What I got over you is experience...and history.
I made '88 Gaasttra Speedfoils really work by switching to soft flex top masts, inverting the top 2 and thinning the third battens, so a 5.2 could actually handle 30 mph winds on a flat downwind course.
I made '93 Windwing 4 cam race sails work by switching from stiff flex top to med CC RDM masts, thin top 3 battens, and shaving all cams.
These mods were recognized by the respective sail makers by the end of the season and passed on to their other team riders.
By mid '90's, I stopped competing, lost my board and sail sponsorships, and took up kayaking for one year.
Back to windsurfing by '96, just used old gear I had from 7 years of sponsorships. Obviously, lost interest in "state of the art". Nothing really has changed much, except the genetics of the new breed of riders.
My 1985 Seatend 9' 13 lbs., 23" wide slalom board would have been competitive into 2004.
My 1984 Prodanovich [Local Motion] 7'7" x 23" swallow tail twin fin would work just as well as any small wave windsurfing board made today.
Maybe learn something from history.

Yep, you've probably sailed at a higher level than me. No doubts there. But this is not about you and me. It's about a person taking a punt on a gear combo that's not proven.
Unless you consider that sails made in the 80s and 90's are similar to modern sails?

I reco against alu mast, remember?
$$ is a problem. NP or Severne foil sail is out of reach, financially.
Modifying older gear is the only solution....with risk, of course.
Dropping 3 grand on mast, boom, and sail is no guarantee for higher placing. It helps, but 3 grand is not available here.
That's why we have to understand the foil race sails and try to get close with mods.
The team NP Foil riders are using more downhaul than recommended...more loose leech, draft back, finer leading edge, and tension.

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LeeD said..
What I got over you is experience...and history.
I made '88 Gaasttra Speedfoils really work by switching to soft flex top masts, inverting the top 2 and thinning the third battens, so a 5.2 could actually handle 30 mph winds on a flat downwind course.

What a load of absolute BS, Gaastra Speedfoils were fast long before you started making up your tales of greatness. Pascal Maka had no trouble breaking the world speed record with them in 1986. Their designer Jeff Magnan knew more about building and designing sails than you ever will. Why do you persist in writing all this BS and taking credit for stuff you had nothing to do with. Just out of interest what's the fastest speed you ever recorded either at an official speed contest or with GPS...certainly not the imaginary speed you seem to have in your unusual mind.

Good questions!
I was in on the sailing part of Gaastra, not the designing and prototype stages.
I had to make a finished product work for someone my size, not Pascal's 195+ lbs.
As you know, twist tops came in around those cutaway leech sails showed in '85 or so.
Waddell and North had versions for sale, with bigger wind range...less medium wind punch..than Race or Speeds.
No, twist at that time was not better for everyone all the time. In it's wind range, and no dirty air, YOUR stock Gaastras were faster than most other sails. Props to you!
But, real world racing is done in crowds, not solo.
So wind range is vital. You know Gaastra spec'd soft/med flex top.
By using Serfiac Golds tip extended, which are the softest alu masts of 1985, range was extended, which I realized by late spring '85, on the 3 cam Speed Slaloms.
I told the rep, but he wasn't really interested. I was a novice racer at the time, but had major boardspeed at the time.
86, got Racefoils for racing thru Local program, but got free to use 4.4, 5.0, 5.7, and 6.4 Speedfoils. Turn them in July, get 4 more to use.
Results in speed events were disappointing for sure, but I was 3rd lightweight, at 142 lbs, to Glen McKinley, 175 lbs. I was 2 mph slower.
The unlimited weight class, I would have come in top half, while Glen top 1/4.
I suck at course racing, ok in slalom, so nobody of importance really cared about my mods.
Instead of staying with Gaastra in 89, I went with their partner Rushwind, who said their sails twisted, but didn't and needed the same mods.
Notice Gaastra racing was going downhill quickly by '88. Why do you think that was?
Re emerging with twist top sails in '93...'92's were problamatic, too flat down low even with stiff flex top, then little twist.....the sails were OK, but by then, lost popularity from bad race sails '88 thru '92.
You know that history.

You are welcome to take more potshots, as I have dissed your ADTR.
My bud on NP WARP Race was the guy who was timed at 43+ on 5 runs at the Ponds, a NP sponsored event that year, while Laird and Roddy only hit 39.
My results were all mixed up, low 20's to high 30's, but maybe due to crowds, bad timing [my fault], and faulty sensor. I sail with that bud 5 days a week, and we're very close in top speed.

You gotta know, some guys are fast racers in competition, some are fast freesailing, and not everyone can do both fast.
I'm a choker. I crash when times get tough. But boatspeed never the problem, even yesterday at 72 years of age.
Event Site Logs, 1987, 39 mph, 2nd. Sailboard Maui 8'9" Slalom, Gaastra Racefoil 5.0, custom Kenny Hartz 10.5" swept pointer. That board had slight tail rocker and unwet really well in shorts paced small chop. 144 lbs.

The video is clear on what a specific foil wing offers. I've been foiling for 2 intense years, always with 2-camber sails, (turbo 7.5 and then h2 7.8) here in the Rio de la Plata most of the foil friends use 9m HG or 7m glide. To get more performance with my 100Kg (such as early flight, good speed and decent courses) I have to wait for the moment to buy a specific used wing with a longer mast in these moments of little budget! After reading the posts I discard the mach1. and at most one turbo 8.6 type sail to take advantage of my masts and be attentive to the specific foil sails and their longer masts!

A couple of years ago people were getting big slalom sails cut down by good sail repairers to make them foil specific. It seemed to involve taking 1 sqm off including re profiling the top bit of the leach so it was less floppy (i guess due to apparent wind differences?). Sounded like a lot of hassle and money for something that would not be great afterwards - although if you already had it then maybe an ok idea, but it does suggest that slalom sails arent right unadjusted.
i used an old 8m challenger 4 cam foil race sail last night for first time ever (very, very light winds - no one else really making progress). I generally use wave sails (i have a slingshot foil). Worked beautifully- so smooth, so stable, just awesome - even on a slingshot (until you have to uphaul it and realise its full of 100kg of water - thankfully only happened once!).

So it CAN work well, but not every case.
Like my '95 Gaastra 3 cam 6.0 every time.
Not so sure about '17 Gaastra 3 cam.
Loft Switchblade 5.8 is good SDM or RDM.
Brother 6.6.....weak and heavy.

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LeeD said..
You are welcome to take more potshots, as I have dissed your ADTR.
My bud on NP WARP Race was the guy who was timed at 43+ on 5 runs at the Ponds, a NP sponsored event that year, while Laird and Roddy only hit 39.
My results were all mixed up, low 20's to high 30's, but maybe due to crowds, bad timing [my fault], and faulty sensor. I sail with that bud 5 days a week, and we're very close in top speed.

Sorry for Sidetracking, but you mention the Ponds. I once read an article about them, but that was long ago. Now I'm wondering where they even are. Does anyone still sail them?

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ZeeGerman said..
Sorry for Sidetracking, but you mention the Ponds. I once read an article about them, but that was long ago. Now I'm wondering where they even are. Does anyone still sail them?

is this it ? looks like no water anymore

goo.gl/maps/DCkVzWLS3aVvoqxQ6

Very rare for the Ponds to fill with water anymore, most of it is diverted for agriculture purposes or the drought has reduced the flow so very little reaches it. Was a grotty dirty place to sail, so much dust and the air quality was hazardous to your health, Back in the 1980s Los Angeles had the worst air quality in the USA with car exhaust the main cause. All that air blew through the pass in the San Bernardino mountains and out into the desert each afternoon passing through the Ponds. Needless to say breathing exhaust fumes while exercising is not the most healthy pastime!

It was also very gusty and the water level was rarely up to the top of the pond so the banks caused a lot of turbulence. Water wasn't really that flat where the wind was. When it did blow it was spectacular for the sandblasting you, your gear and car received. 20 foot shipping containers even got blow off land into the water one year. Can't say I miss the place at all.

Gotta say, few who experienced it would ever miss it.
Traffic jams upwind on the freeway, stuck masts and sails blowing into whatever tried to hold them down, dust in eyes, dirt everywhere, I wonder how the retired folks can live in the desert when the wind blows thru.
We were happy to leave after the weekend, even thos Fat Dave was clearly faster than the NP team.
Around here, that leaves Doran Bodega as about the only spot with somewhat steady winds for speed sailing. San Luis too up and down, as is 'stick, R&G, Sherman behind the islands,.
Gusty wind the problem.

Sorry for the insistence, ruled out the Mach1 because it will not offer me more than my H2 7.8 in terms of comfort and early departure. They also offer me a bic One designe 8.5 wing with very little use. uses 4.90 mast similar to what I have.

Smaller sail allows harding pumping, same foiling experience.

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foilarg said..
Sorry for the insistence, ruled out the Mach1 because it will not offer me more than my H2 7.8 in terms of comfort and early departure. They also offer me a bic One designe 8.5 wing with very little use. uses 4.90 mast similar to what I have.

I've seen bic OD sails used for foiling. From what I've heard they're ok. A lot better than slalom sails anyhow with especially a lot more low-end. As a downside I've heard they are very physical to sail (heavy feeling) compared to foil sails, especially when properly powered up.

I see a philosophy gap......
All you guys want a foil sail with great low end planing/foiling power.
I want and am seeking a foil sail with long extended top end and very little low end.
For me, gusts atr the problem, not getting up on foil.

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LeeD said..
I want and am seeking a foil sail with long extended top end and very little low end.
For me, gusts atr the problem, not getting up on foil.

then use your slalom sails

Thanks WhiteofHeart, if it gives me something else for mild conditions obviously in freerace it is a good option. It looks like a 2 camber wing like the one I currently use. With my 100kg maybe I'll hold up to 16, 17 knots, I'm going to give it a try! I have a 4.90 mast.

Thanks, fjDoug.
But every day I'm wound up on 5.0 and 90 liters....too windy to foil.

I also adapted one of my slalom sails. putting a new clew hole above the crossover batten, so the boom attaches to the widest part of the sail. Much better for pumping and upwind angles, not so sure about reading downwind. after one test session felt better in slalom mode for slalom sailing!



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