Great to hear everyones perspective.

I started a few years ago with the aim of getting more time on the water on the low wind days. I pretty much only fin and/or foil when I am in Maui.

However foiling has become more about quality than quantity for me. If its not a great fin day I foil. Still enjoy buzzing around and jumping on the fin when conditions are great but when its choppy or the wind is gusty, off shore or the waves are not nice the foil just turns those marginal days into excellent days

I have had discussions with folks that compare the number their days on the water (were they planed on a fin) to my number of days I had on the foil. And because Maui is pretty windy the numbers are close; however for me foiling on a 4.2 without stoping for 30min while playing in the swell, is higher on the fun quality meter than not being able to plane through a jibe and only plane on every other reach. But each to their own.

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allesad said..
2+ years ago was my first foil ride. That season sold all the Formula, Slalom Gear. Invested in Foil Only Gear

When at home, it 100% windfoiling (Moses/RRD Pocket Rocket/Ezzy)
When I travel, its wingfoiling (inflatable board (Gong HiPE)

Next add-on is the twin BOOST fins. Getting too old for pumping and slogging to the wind line.

What are these twin boost fins?

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Hess said..
Great to hear everyones perspective.

I started a few years ago with the aim of getting more time on the water on the low wind days. I pretty much only fin and/or foil when I am in Maui.

However foiling has become more about quality than quantity for me. If its not a great fin day I foil. Still enjoy buzzing around and jumping on the fin when conditions are great but when its choppy or the wind is gusty, off shore or the waves are not nice the foil just turns those marginal days into excellent days

I have had discussions with folks that compare the number their days on the water (were they planed on a fin) to my number of days I had on the foil. And because Maui is pretty windy the numbers are close; however for me foiling on a 4.2 without stoping for 30min while playing in the swell, is higher on the fun quality meter than not being able to plane through a jibe and only plane on every other reach. But each to their own.

Excatly. Even in maui/SF bay area, there is still quite a lot of slogging on the fin. In areas with much worse wind quality I could see many people going only foil

After a couple of years wind foiling I'm now wing foiling & wondering if I'll ever go back. The 10 minute setup & light weight & feel of the gear on the water is great. I'm not up to wave riding yet but it's obvious that you can just let a wing trail behind, whereas you still need to manage a wind surf sail & if it luffs, you stop dead.

I can see that when sailing somewhere like Moreton Bay or Lake Macquarie a windfoil is good to go a really long reach from the shore. Wing foilers don't tend to go out so far but have just as much fun.

One board, 2 foils & 2 wind wings fit in my car easily. Anyone want to buy a used windsurfing trailer to lug masts, booms etc?

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gregwho said.. it's obvious that you can just let a wing trail behind, whereas you still need to manage a wind surf sail & if it luffs, you stop dead.

^^ I'm not sure that's correct,

To partly counter the prevailing view that you can only foil bumps with a wing - not in my observations at our local.
If you've got the right windfoil gear you can carve super-hard on bumps by utilising mast base pressure/sail power similar to windsurf wave-riding.

It takes TOW to make the most of the swell energy as you're probably going a lot faster than a winger. That's probably what's building the narrative that you can only foil bumps with a wing - dudes are bailing to the wing before they develop the skills to windfoil swells.

I've seen wingers riding bigger full waves at MR - I can see in those conditions that the freedom a wing gives on the wave face is an advantage

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ZeeGerman said..

allesad said..
2+ years ago was my first foil ride. That season sold all the Formula, Slalom Gear. Invested in Foil Only Gear

When at home, it 100% windfoiling (Moses/RRD Pocket Rocket/Ezzy)
When I travel, its wingfoiling (inflatable board (Gong HiPE)

Next add-on is the twin BOOST fins. Getting too old for pumping and slogging to the wind line.

What are these twin boost fins?

ZeeGerman, FYI: boostsurfing.com/

The backorders wait period is very long....earlier indications look like it works pretty well. Price looks affordable. With a twin tracks on my board and a Tuttle, I will mount the eFins on the tracks and my foil on the tuttle. No slogging for me

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allesad said..

ZeeGerman said..

allesad said..
2+ years ago was my first foil ride. That season sold all the Formula, Slalom Gear. Invested in Foil Only Gear

When at home, it 100% windfoiling (Moses/RRD Pocket Rocket/Ezzy)
When I travel, its wingfoiling (inflatable board (Gong HiPE)

Next add-on is the twin BOOST fins. Getting too old for pumping and slogging to the wind line.

What are these twin boost fins?

ZeeGerman, FYI: boostsurfing.com/

The backorders wait period is very long....earlier indications look like it works pretty well. Price looks affordable. With a twin tracks on my board and a Tuttle, I will mount the eFins on the tracks and my foil on the tuttle. No slogging for me

I am not convinced that a booster is going to help you get up anymore than foil pumping, and once up you need a certain amount of wind to stay up, or need to continue to pump the foil in-flight. But with the boosters every wave you clip you are going to get pulled out of flight when it/they catch the wave crest, so really only for flat water. Why not just learn to pump the foil?

Motor sailing! I dig it! What ever floats your boat or launches your foil.

Take my money! For those days I'm tired of doing the monkey humpy pumpy.

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azymuth said..

gregwho said.. it's obvious that you can just let a wing trail behind, whereas you still need to manage a wind surf sail & if it luffs, you stop dead.

^^ I'm not sure that's correct,

To partly counter the prevailing view that you can only foil bumps with a wing - not in my observations at our local.
If you've got the right windfoil gear you can carve super-hard on bumps by utilising mast base pressure/sail power similar to windsurf wave-riding.

It takes TOW to make the most of the swell energy as you're probably going a lot faster than a winger. That's probably what's building the narrative that you can only foil bumps with a wing - dudes are bailing to the wing before they develop the skills to windfoil swells.

I've seen wingers riding bigger full waves at MR - I can see in those conditions that the freedom a wing gives on the wave face is an advantage

I have to agree here with azymuth,


Some points from my view

1] the rigging time is no difference

2] durability is a big issue windfoiling it's far superior in this department at least for me.

3] a lot of people jumping ship without mastering their craft with TOW.

4] yes it is possible to flag the sail off to the side and crave the swell..

5] no matter what you do or ride just go out have some fun and look before you turn.

Im going to go work on my craft in about a half an hour as it's starting to get windy

For pure, real wave riding with sideshore wind, slight off component, the rig should bear little difference, since surfsailing seems similar enough to surfing.
Onshore wind initially favors wing, but as windfoilers learn to lay down and luff the sail, it does seem to close the gap.
Rigging times makes no difference.
Do we drive vans or mini electric cars?

I foil on a 6m (Gator)10-14 knots then change to a 95 L freewave board with the same 6M sail in 14+ knots. The 7m doesn't see the light of day much anymore.

I am a wavesailor that started foiling 4 years ago for the light wind days and more fun on the lakes with no waves.
Foiling using my regular wavesails 3.4 -5.0 from 10 knots to around 20-22 knots having lots of fun in swell and flat water.
But when there are waves and the wind is over 20 knots i go wavesailing, no doubt about it!

"Fin windsurfing does not really appeal to me much anymore. I like the feeling of windsurfing with a fin. But I feel so much more efficient on the foil. As a sailor, I like to be on the fin and fast on the reaches, but when you want to point a bit or the wind drops, you feel the foil is so much more complete. It makes it frustrating to be on the fin anymore. I want to point but I can't! Foil is just opening doors that were not possible before. That is what I love about foil. "

- NG

www.windsurf.co.uk/nicolas-goyard-flying-frenchman/

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gregwho said..
After a couple of years wind foiling I'm now wing foiling & wondering if I'll ever go back. The 10 minute setup & light weight & feel of the gear on the water is great. I'm not up to wave riding yet but it's obvious that you can just let a wing trail behind, whereas you still need to manage a wind surf sail & if it luffs, you stop dead.

I can see that when sailing somewhere like Moreton Bay or Lake Macquarie a windfoil is good to go a really long reach from the shore. Wing foilers don't tend to go out so far but have just as much fun.

One board, 2 foils & 2 wind wings fit in my car easily. Anyone want to buy a used windsurfing trailer to lug masts, booms etc?

Great to hear that you are enjoying winging as having fun is what it is all about.

IMHO based on my observations of Winger vs Windfoilers on waves or swells there are more similarities than differences provided both are on similar foils. For example:

When riding reef swells with side on conditions the foil turns those 3 to 5 ft barely breaking swells into loads of fun. Both can jibe on the face to catch the swell and both can perform carves on the face using the power of the swell. Most wingers prefer to flag the wing and it will float downwind behind them. The Windfoilers can also flag or depowered the sail but the sail does not feel as light/free as the depowered wing.
And both can carve on the face of the wave using the sail/wing by sheeting in toe side and heel side. When doing this on a Windfoil I believe the rider can transfer more power to the foil in the carve. Not saying its better but different, I really like how this feels; when I get it right.

If you are riding wind swell on a downwinder in stronger wind you realize the sail or wing will be flagged more or less ahead of you. And if you want to switch directions on the wave you will switch hands for both. So not quite the same free feeling. You can also ride across the swell powering through the carves with a sail, heaps of fun but something I don't often see wingers doing. Regarding the downwinders many wingers will drive/shuttle up wind, were I have no problem just hooking in for a few minutes before downwinding on a windfoil.

As for the differences you mentioned; I have actually heard many wingfoilers rave about how they love the speed and ease of getting on the water and particularly in and out of the water. I have to say until I got a handle on the bottom of my board it was a pain, now I just carry it like a regular windsurfer. But I sure prefer driffing in/out over swimming on a wingfoil when the wind dies or is offshore. So there are times when I am home, despite a few minutes more of derigging, before my winging friends get to shore. But they are way younger
Interesting to me is that although the wing is light in flaky winds I have had the wingers comment on how their shoulders were sore from holding up the wing and wish they had the sail supported by the board.

Enjoy windsurfing too much to ever make the switch to 100% wind foiling. Foiling on light wind days. The days where I would not be 100% of the time fully powered up on the fin. Don't have any lighter air windsurfing gear. So no choice outside of butt time on the beach. F5 or stronger is fin time! Foiling has significantly increased the number of days/season of fun time on the water. Big stupid smile and the "wind" is only 7kts and foiling with a 5.5M. Who would have thought... In the past would be beach time on a 11 kt day.
Today it's break out the 4.5M and foil.

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gregwho said..
After a couple of years wind foiling I'm now wing foiling & wondering if I'll ever go back. The 10 minute setup & light weight & feel of the gear on the water is great. I'm not up to wave riding yet but it's obvious that you can just let a wing trail behind, whereas you still need to manage a wind surf sail & if it luffs, you stop dead.

I can see that when sailing somewhere like Moreton Bay or Lake Macquarie a windfoil is good to go a really long reach from the shore. Wing foilers don't tend to go out so far but have just as much fun.

One board, 2 foils & 2 wind wings fit in my car easily. Anyone want to buy a used windsurfing trailer to lug masts, booms etc?

gregwho, I see the appeal of the wing. Looks like fun! Kudos for trying new things and getting out on the water! Sounds like you have found your jam.
I really do not understand your comment about when a windsurf sail luffs you stop dead. Have you ever seen this style of riding? Most of the time he has the sail shut off.

There is no need to go out far, Just cruz out a bit until you see a set wave to gybe on and ride back in.
There is not much gear required and it's small. I pretty much just use a 4.5 and 3.7 that both rig on a 370 mast and the same small boom. One board and two front wings. I sail out of a Honda Fit Even at my 100kg weight this covers me from12 knots into the high 20's. The key to making this work is riding large front wings, similar to winging set ups.

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Gwarn said..

azymuth said..

gregwho said.. it's obvious that you can just let a wing trail behind, whereas you still need to manage a wind surf sail & if it luffs, you stop dead.

^^ I'm not sure that's correct,

To partly counter the prevailing view that you can only foil bumps with a wing - not in my observations at our local.
If you've got the right windfoil gear you can carve super-hard on bumps by utilising mast base pressure/sail power similar to windsurf wave-riding.

It takes TOW to make the most of the swell energy as you're probably going a lot faster than a winger. That's probably what's building the narrative that you can only foil bumps with a wing - dudes are bailing to the wing before they develop the skills to windfoil swells.

I've seen wingers riding bigger full waves at MR - I can see in those conditions that the freedom a wing gives on the wave face is an advantage

I have to agree here with azymuth,


Some points from my view

1] the rigging time is no difference

2] durability is a big issue windfoiling it's far superior in this department at least for me.

3] a lot of people jumping ship without mastering their craft with TOW.

4] yes it is possible to flag the sail off to the side and crave the swell..

5] no matter what you do or ride just go out have some fun and look before you turn.

Im going to go work on my craft in about a half an hour as it's starting to get windy

Gwarn, You lucky (and smart) wintering in Mexi dog! When you gonna get us more vid?

As Hess noted: ....actually heard many wingfoilers rave about how they love the speed and ease of getting on the water and particularly in and out of the water. I have to say until I got a handle on the bottom of my board it was a pain, now I just carry it like a regular windsurfer."

Using the Chinook Pro Flex base on the foil board to reduce the 90 degree stress bend on the tendon. Plus it's easier to attach and remove the rig from the board. Appreciate the relatively shorter length and tad bit over 6kg board. But still a bit of pain hauling everything to or out of the water. Especially if it's a long or uphill trek. Friend has a SS Dialer. The board is a tank. Size wise and weight wise. He's a +180cm,90 kg person and prefers hauling rig and board separately to the water's edge.

Wonder why windsurf foil boards don't have the bottom side handle that you see on wing foil boards?

Bud of mine, 160 lbs., easily walks 200 yards with upside down board's tail resting on his seat harness at his hip, sail attached held by boom.
I gotta try that someday.
His board is held between the footstraps, upside down so the non skid helps with friction on his harness.

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OldGuy3 said..
...Wonder why windsurf foil boards don't have the bottom side handle that you see on wing foil boards?

My wind/wing board has one and it's marvelous. I'm sure it's part of why it needs a good puff to get off the water but that handle is so nice to grab. Probably, not that difficult to install as a DIY project.

Got a SUP handle in my hand right now.
Rout 2x4.25", 1 3/4" deep, toss some glass in, stuff handle in.
Was gonna install on to bottom of 111 Isonic, but still like windsurfing.

Can't say I've made 'the jump', but on my last trip to the coast, I took only my 73L fin board, and my foil board - I got to use both, and didn't miss the other 2 fin boards that I've historically taken along with me. (102L and 125L). As much as I've loved those 2 mid-sized boards, I don't envision them ever leaving the house again, unless I'm taking them along for a friend or family member to use. (I haven't progressed far enough on the foil to consider using it in winds appropriate for the 73l fin board, and I'm awfully fond of riding that board in solid winds, but we'll see in time... :o)