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excav8ter said..
Thought I'd share a couple of quick shots of where I had my i84 wing, using my 6.0 Flyer last Sunday. Also the foot strap placement I use.

Thanks for sharing your set-up on 160 levi and i84. It appears your foil is significantly toward the front of foil track which is against many people were suggesting as "all the way back of the track". I started moving my foil a little forward but next week I can try the mast foil position more forward similar to yours. Did you feel moving forward was giving you more lift but less stable?

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SALKAN said..

excav8ter said..
Thought I'd share a couple of quick shots of where I had my i84 wing, using my 6.0 Flyer last Sunday. Also the foot strap placement I use.

Thanks for sharing your set-up on 160 levi and i84. It appears your foil is significantly toward the front of foil track which is against many people were suggesting as "all the way back of the track". I started moving my foil a little forward but next week I can try the mast foil position more forward similar to yours. Did you feel moving forward was giving you more lift but less stable?

I will try to get a better overall picture of the location. It does look quite far forward.

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SALKAN said..
Did you feel moving forward was giving you more lift but less stable?

Moving lift forward (to a point) is only less stable if you remain in windsurf mode ie back foot heavy and leaning back. With weight on a harness/front foot, imho, it's at least as stable as the board easily leaves the water without hard measures like pushing hard with the back foot, bring the rig way back, etc.

Balz Muller, in his "instructional video" tells those starting out to shove the mast base all the way back to effectively do the same. Starts around 2:45 As said before, if you lean back, you'll shoot to the moon. Keep your weight forward and the board will rise up under you. You may hesitate to move things that much but lift forward is not a bad thing.

Got out again this evening for a few miles of smiles. For the last day of September, it felt more like August. The wind was similar to yesterday. Fairly consistent around 16-18mph. The lulls were pretty light, fortunately there weren't too many of them. I put the foil mast at the 1" mark I made, and put the UJ in the mast track just shy of the midpoint. Overall things felt good. Getting on foil was consistent and easy, but there was a lot of boat traffic to contend with, which made for quite a bit of choppy conditions at times. For most of the evening the gusts were about the right strength for the 6.0 Flyer and the i84 wing. Towards the end the wind kicked up significantly which made it hard to stay in control.
The pics show where my foil mast was mounted. Hopefully the pictures are good enough to help show my set up.

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excav8ter said..
Got out again this evening for a few miles of smiles. For the last day of September, it felt more like August. The wind was similar to yesterday. Fairly consistent around 16-18mph. The lulls were pretty light, fortunately there weren't too many of them. I put the foil mast at the 1" mark I made, and put the UJ in the mast track just shy of the midpoint. Overall things felt good. Getting on foil was consistent and easy, but there was a lot of boat traffic to contend with, which made for quite a bit of choppy conditions at times. For most of the evening the gusts were about the right strength for the 6.0 Flyer and the i84 wing. Towards the end the wind kicked up significantly which made it hard to stay in control.
The pics show where my foil mast was mounted. Hopefully the pictures are good enough to help show my set up.

If you get caught out with stronger wind on the 84 - easy on the water fix to help retain control is to lower the boom and move the mast base forward.

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azymuth said..

excav8ter said..
Got out again this evening for a few miles of smiles. For the last day of September, it felt more like August. The wind was similar to yesterday. Fairly consistent around 16-18mph. The lulls were pretty light, fortunately there weren't too many of them. I put the foil mast at the 1" mark I made, and put the UJ in the mast track just shy of the midpoint. Overall things felt good. Getting on foil was consistent and easy, but there was a lot of boat traffic to contend with, which made for quite a bit of choppy conditions at times. For most of the evening the gusts were about the right strength for the 6.0 Flyer and the i84 wing. Towards the end the wind kicked up significantly which made it hard to stay in control.
The pics show where my foil mast was mounted. Hopefully the pictures are good enough to help show my set up.

If you get caught out with stronger wind on the 84 - easy on the water fix to help retain control is to lower the boom and move the mast base forward.

I definitely felt that my boom was too high, and that it was contributing to being out of control at times. I was not sure about lowering the boom while on the water. I have never done that before.

Sure could have used something in the range of 4.8-5.0 last night, and then used the i99 for more lift in the lulls.

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excav8ter said..
I definitely felt that my boom was too high, and that it was contributing to being out of control at times. I was not sure about lowering the boom while on the water. I have never done that before.

Sure could have used something in the range of 4.8-5.0 last night, and then used the i99 for more lift in the lulls.

While luffing (standing on the board on a reach with the sail out depowered - newbie's ready position) , grab the mast under the boom clamp by one hand unclamp slide and reclamp the the boom with the other. Keeping your hand under the clamp keeps it from slipping all the way down the opening. Did it all the time with a formula boom that slipped way too often. Sometimes, though, when you unclamp, you'll lose your grip on something so you'll end up having to get in the water to tighten it. If you don't overtighten your boom clamp, this should be a pretty easy thing to do.

Unless the wind is crazy up and down, to avoid the need both a smaller sail and more lift: bear off in the lulls (like 120 degrees off) to keep up the speed and then crank back upwind in the next gust to regain ground. You can glide quite far to the next puff while up on the wing and maybe through in a few pumps if need be. I've even chased puffs downwind to stay going - that's really fun.

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Paducah said..

excav8ter said..
I definitely felt that my boom was too high, and that it was contributing to being out of control at times. I was not sure about lowering the boom while on the water. I have never done that before.

Sure could have used something in the range of 4.8-5.0 last night, and then used the i99 for more lift in the lulls.

While luffing (standing on the board on a reach with the sail out depowered - newbie's ready position) , grab the mast under the boom clamp by one hand unclamp slide and reclamp the the boom with the other. Keeping your hand under the clamp keeps it from slipping all the way down the opening. Did it all the time with a formula boom that slipped way too often. Sometimes, though, when you unclamp, you'll lose your grip on something so you'll end up having to get in the water to tighten it. If you don't overtighten your boom clamp, this should be a pretty easy thing to do.

Unless the wind is crazy up and down, to avoid the need both a smaller sail and more lift: bear off in the lulls (like 120 degrees off) to keep up the speed and then crank back upwind in the next gust to regain ground. You can glide quite far to the next puff while up on the wing and maybe through in a few pumps if need be. I've even chased puffs downwind to stay going - that's really fun.

Thanks! I will give that a try next time. My boom to mast fitment is pretty snug, hopefully it works smoothly.

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excav8ter said..

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..
I definitely felt that my boom was too high, and that it was contributing to being out of control at times. I was not sure about lowering the boom while on the water. I have never done that before.

Sure could have used something in the range of 4.8-5.0 last night, and then used the i99 for more lift in the lulls.

While luffing (standing on the board on a reach with the sail out depowered - newbie's ready position) , grab the mast under the boom clamp by one hand unclamp slide and reclamp the the boom with the other. Keeping your hand under the clamp keeps it from slipping all the way down the opening. Did it all the time with a formula boom that slipped way too often. Sometimes, though, when you unclamp, you'll lose your grip on something so you'll end up having to get in the water to tighten it. If you don't overtighten your boom clamp, this should be a pretty easy thing to do.

Unless the wind is crazy up and down, to avoid the need both a smaller sail and more lift: bear off in the lulls (like 120 degrees off) to keep up the speed and then crank back upwind in the next gust to regain ground. You can glide quite far to the next puff while up on the wing and maybe through in a few pumps if need be. I've even chased puffs downwind to stay going - that's really fun.

Thanks! I will give that a try next time. My boom to mast fitment is pretty snug, hopefully it works smoothly.

You can give it a try on land first if you want. It takes some pressure to close it pushing with one hand and holding the mast up with the other. Hopping in the water and doing it is always an option - just mind the wings while you're in! Good luck.

Where do you guys have your front foot straps located? Inboard, or more towards the edge?

Was able to get a little flight time this afternoon. Rigged the 6.0 Flyer with the i99 front wing in some gusty conditions today, roughly 11-18mph. Only managed to get 30-45 minutes before the wind just DIED. forecast did not show it dying off, but it did.
Set the i99 at 1" forward of the rear most position and set the UJ in the center of the mast track. Good long flights, that were very stable. I REALLY like the i99 wing. It's SO stable for learning and seems to stay on foil pretty well in the lulls.

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excav8ter said..
Was able to get a little flight time this afternoon. Rigged the 6.0 Flyer with the i99 front wing in some gusty conditions today, roughly 11-18mph. Only managed to get 30-45 minutes before the wind just DIED. forecast did not show it dying off, but it did.
Set the i99 at 1" forward of the rear most position and set the UJ in the center of the mast track.

What was your back wing 42 vs 48 cm, up or down positions? Are you using straps?

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SALKAN said..

excav8ter said..
Was able to get a little flight time this afternoon. Rigged the 6.0 Flyer with the i99 front wing in some gusty conditions today, roughly 11-18mph. Only managed to get 30-45 minutes before the wind just DIED. forecast did not show it dying off, but it did.
Set the i99 at 1" forward of the rear most position and set the UJ in the center of the mast track.

What was your back wing 42 vs 48 cm, up or down positions? Are you using straps?

I have the 48cm rear wing on, and it's facing down. I only have from foot straps on as of now. The front straps are mounted quite far inboard too. I've been contemplating moving them outward a bit because I read the board will lift easier if they are further out.

I have also run the 48cm rear wing with the i84 wing, also facing down. I wonder if the 48cm rear wing should be facing "up" with the i84?

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excav8ter said..

I wonder if the 48cm rear wing should be facing "up" with the i84?

Wyatt miller said 48 cm wing should be in down position with i84. I was finally able to start foiling today when I positioned my i84/48 on C position and very close to front of the track (on your scale it would be the front is on 2") on 13-14 knot day with 7.0 flyer sail and 160 levitator. It is likely I needed to push on the track further front position due to my weight, 230 lbs. Do you position yourself more leaning back to give an angle to your foil or keeping total straight down is more balanced for your runs? Is it easier to control runs when you are using the harness? I feel that harness keeps the board in more locked position!

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SALKAN said..

excav8ter said..

I wonder if the 48cm rear wing should be facing "up" with the i84?

Wyatt miller said 48 cm wing should be in down position with i84. I was finally able to start foiling today when I positioned my i84/48 on C position and very close to front of the track (on your scale it would be the front is on 2") on 13-14 knot day with 7.0 flyer sail and 160 levitator. It is likely I needed to push on the track further front position due to my weight, 230 lbs. Do you position yourself more leaning back to give an angle to your foil or keeping total straight down is more balanced for your runs? Is it easier to control runs when you are using the harness? I feel that harness keeps the board in more locked position!

Salkan... I try to stay equally balanced between my front and rear foot. In gusts I some times find I lean forward a bit, while sheeting out a bit to control power. Only in rare, perfect wind speeds for a given sail, do I feel completely balanced. One of my best days so far was thre Saturday's ago, in 8-12mph breezes with my 8.0 Ezzy Cheetah on the Fanatic Falcon LW (I didn't have my Levitator yet). I had runs of nearly a mile on foil. I was going up and down at will, just to get the feel for the i99. Heading upwind and turning downwind was really cool.
I have not used a harness yet. Longest session so far has been 2.5 hours of nearly constant sailing/foiling.

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excav8ter said..

SALKAN said..

excav8ter said..

I wonder if the 48cm rear wing should be facing "up" with the i84?

Wyatt miller said 48 cm wing should be in down position with i84. I was finally able to start foiling today when I positioned my i84/48 on C position and very close to front of the track (on your scale it would be the front is on 2") on 13-14 knot day with 7.0 flyer sail and 160 levitator. It is likely I needed to push on the track further front position due to my weight, 230 lbs. Do you position yourself more leaning back to give an angle to your foil or keeping total straight down is more balanced for your runs? Is it easier to control runs when you are using the harness? I feel that harness keeps the board in more locked position!

Salkan... I try to stay equally balanced between my front and rear foot. In gusts I some times find I lean forward a bit, while sheeting out a bit to control power.

Try staying sheeted in and point higher up wind(keeping weight forward on the front foot) when hit by a gust. I really started getting confidence in foiling when I did this and use my harness lines to create mast base pressure, along with keeping your weight forward to keep speed and the foil down. Move harness lines forward when feeling overpowered and vice versa.
Keep the reveiw of the l-99 coming

I'm confused [always].
Lower boom for overpowered?
Thought high boom for overpowered to create downforce at harness lines and mast base pressure.

Yeah lower boom when overpowered, but you have to do everything only so much. For reference: with my racing kit (talking 9.0Foilrace sail/formula/Lok? Racefoil) in 4-8kts I use my boom on eyeheight, in 20-30 kts (had a race in those conditions last weekend) I use my boom at chinheight.

What I'm trying to say is that you have to keep the settings in persective, with some settings we are talking mm's, others cm's, but almost never whole inches.

Other things I do (for reference, light wind setting vs heavy wind setting):
Mastfoot lightwind: 111cm from the front tuttlescrew, highwind:113cm
Downhaul light wind vs downhaul high wind is a 4mm (2 clicks with power.XT) difference
Outhaul in high winds +1-2cm compared to lightwind upwind setting (but also lowering boom by about 5cm, so maybe max 3cm in "real" difference)
Harnesslines move back 1-2cm.
Footstrap settings: Identical. Maximum spread, backstrap aligned with back screw to back boxscrew.
Change down wings: in 4-8kts I use a 872cm2 wing, 900mm span, in 20-30kts I use a 778cm2 wing, also 900mm span.
No change on stabilizer angle.
Fuselage is fixed 110cm, with the front wing trailing edge 28cm in front of the mast and the leading edge being 41cm in front of the mast for both wings, so no a/b/c positions haha. (The wing rope's are identical in the center, spans are identical, the smaller one just has narrower tips for less power)

I think the most influencial change is the extra outhaul tension and moving the harnesslines back (+changing down the wing). Other settings also influence the balance between the legs (eg boom down also shifts the balance of the foilpower backward, just like moving the mastfoot forward or decreasing stab angle), you want the balance between your legs to remain unchanged between different conditions, just lessen power in the sail and foil. For example, moving the mastfoot forward by 2cm is only to compensate for the mastfootpreassure I lost when adding 4mm of downhaul.

In my experience getting stuck to the water (not enough lift under the frontfoot, eg. too backfooted balance) in high winds with high speeds is just as dangerous as foiling out, maybe even more so, since I have more ease to save those crashes than the getting stuck during a jibe and dive the nose into a wave ones, or the getting stuck during the upwind and the board turning downwind like a mad dog crashes.

Something I havent really tried is to increase rake of the mast when it gets windier, but I do use a little more rake when it is really wavy to lift the nose to make my board touch the water a little bit farther towards the back when I hit a wave.

Wow, tha is for all that.
Simpleton me just can' process it all.
Most days, in the wind zone, I'm both slogging badly..under 5 mph breeze.. and well overpowered fighting and breaching...21 mph on a 4.7 sail, 152lbs., Naish Hover on 1220 foil.
Typical wind, 5-22 mph.

THANKS for all that.

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LeeD said..
I'm confused [always].
Lower boom for overpowered?
Thought high boom for overpowered to create downforce at harness lines and mast base pressure.

Puts more pressure on the front foot. If you need more pressure on the mast base, lean more forward (which also puts pressure on the front foot).

Some people who have trouble unsticking their foil off the water will have their boom too low. You'll see a lot of foilers, especially racers, with their booms near the top of the cutout. I"m small and I'm at the middle on my bigger sails.

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Paducah said..

LeeD said..
I'm confused [always].
Lower boom for overpowered?
Thought high boom for overpowered to create downforce at harness lines and mast base pressure.

Puts more pressure on the front foot. If you need more pressure on the mast base, lean more forward (which also puts pressure on the front foot).

Some people who have trouble unsticking their foil off the water will have their boom too low. You'll see a lot of foilers, especially racers, with their booms near the top of the cutout. I"m small and I'm at the middle on my bigger sails.

Totally agree! In light winds I'm at the complete top of my Phantom's and im 192cm tall (6'3" I think).

Another frustrating 6-14 mph day.
As I hit the water, gusts reading 16 and building.
Slog a mile out, first puff up and happy...the only puff in an hour of pumping g and slogging .
Dtops to 12 upwind and 70' up.
On the water,5-8.

I agree little adjustments do go a long way!
I moved my mast base 1-2cm back from my go-to setting because the wind died down a bit. I found I could not get the leverage for pumping effectively. Has anyone found that they can't get good full pumps when there mast base is way far back?

Front or back, your pump is the same.
Back, you work on less surface area, so need more wind.

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CAN17 said..

I really started getting confidence in foiling when I did this and use my harness lines to create mast base pressure, along with keeping your weight forward to keep speed and the foil down. Move harness lines forward when feeling overpowered and vice versa.
Keep the reveiw of the l-99 coming

I felt much more confident with the harness and also using front foot straps (in side positions) on the levitator forced me to step back compared to strapless position. I noticed that I was positioning ~1 foot forward during my run without straps and had difficulty in taking off but going into footstraps made me to levitate easier.

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SALKAN said..

CAN17 said..

I really started getting confidence in foiling when I did this and use my harness lines to create mast base pressure, along with keeping your weight forward to keep speed and the foil down. Move harness lines forward when feeling overpowered and vice versa.
Keep the reveiw of the l-99 coming

I felt much more confident with the harness and also using front foot straps (in side positions) on the levitator forced me to step back compared to strapless position. I noticed that I was positioning ~1 foot forward during my run without straps and had difficulty in taking off but going into footstraps made me to levitate easier.

Hi Salkan

I had my first runs on Friday. I was all over the place. Ive been windsurfing over 30 years and was a bit frustrated at being so out of control. A mate on our whatsapp group said I must get my front foot in the strap and place my back foot near the back of the board but over the CENTRELINE of the board, not out wide where the strap should be. BOOM....I was suddenly doing 100m plus runs. Try it.

I must add that I was on an experimental kitefoil setup. I had made up an alu fuselage to try get the wing near the middle of the board.....thumbsuckery and a bent fuselage later I got the aforementioned tip that got me flying with so much more control. Its probably your learning technique and not the positioning of the foil that is making it crazy unstable. From what I have read the slingshot setup is the best around for stability and learning.

Not sure if this will work or not.... but here is a short clip of my POV last Saturday. Guessing it was blowing around 16mph. 6.0 Sailworks Flyer, Levitator 160 and SS i99 front, 48cm rear wings


www.instagram.com/excav8ter/

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excav8ter said..
Not sure if this will work or not.... but here is a short clip of my POV last Saturday. Guessing it was blowing around 16mph. 6.0 Sailworks Flyer, Levitator 160 and SS i99 front, 48cm rear wings


www.instagram.com/excav8ter/

I typed in your name in Instagram and your video came up. Whow! I'm at the same latitude, Cleveland, Ohio, and I had a 3mm full wetsuit on this weekend.

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lakeeffect said..

excav8ter said..
Not sure if this will work or not.... but here is a short clip of my POV last Saturday. Guessing it was blowing around 16mph. 6.0 Sailworks Flyer, Levitator 160 and SS i99 front, 48cm rear wings


www.instagram.com/excav8ter/

I typed in your name in Instagram and your video came up. Whow! I'm at the same latitude, Cleveland, Ohio, and I had a 3mm full wetsuit on this weekend.

That was probably my last shot of being out with no neoprene. Air was about 60 and water was around 70 yet. Not so much now. But the air is supposed to be in the 60's for the next 3 days. Hopefully there's some wind. I really want to get a few more hours on the water before it's too cold.