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seanhogan said..
mostly stability and control

Theres only a slight difference in size in the lift foil between old and new, so it'll be interesting to see how much of a difference the new foil shapes with curved tips will make to stability/control. Im betting theyll feel a lot better

I'm thinking they may get going a little earlier too with the new shape and slightly bigger size.

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RichardG said..
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?

Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?

How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?

Hi Richard, i use the NP AL Foil in my 2016 JP Slalom board which has a deep tuttle but isnt reinforced as far as i know. From what ive heard the lighter riders like myself (70kgs) dont have too many issues with the non re-inforced box but i think heavier riders may have some issues.

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Maddlad said..

RichardG said..
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?

Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?

How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?

Hi Richard, i use the NP AL Foil in my 2016 JP Slalom board which has a deep tuttle but isnt reinforced as far as i know. From what ive heard the lighter riders like myself (70kgs) dont have too many issues with the non re-inforced box but i think heavier riders may have some issues.

Hi Maddlad, Thanks for that invaluable advice and your experience which is in line with all the online research. I am 95 kg at the moment. I expect the AL Foil is not sturdy enough for me, noting issues others have had ( don't want to muck around with warranty claims) and I also like the idea of the lesser maintenance which carbon affords. Does the F4 "take off" earlier with bigger wing ?

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RichardG said..

seanhogan said..

Maddlad said..
Saw the brand new version of these foils today. Very nice.reat shaped wings and stabiliser with curved end plates

Like they were designed in the first place, but not executed... and now NP have to do a backflip and release curved wings...

In theory and practice what difference will this make ?

When you lose it on the Alfoil, fall backwards and catch sight of that straight tipped wing in your landing zone, glinting like an axe in the sunshine, you think of another reason to curve the tips. Downwardly curved, the tips are a little more out of the way and way more inclined to flex, causing less damage, if accidentally impacted end on.

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RichardG said..

Maddlad said..

RichardG said..
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?

Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?

How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?

Hi Richard, i use the NP AL Foil in my 2016 JP Slalom board which has a deep tuttle but isnt reinforced as far as i know. From what ive heard the lighter riders like myself (70kgs) dont have too many issues with the non re-inforced box but i think heavier riders may have some issues.

Hi Maddlad, Thanks for that invaluable advice and your experience which is in line with all the online research. I am 95 kg at the moment. I expect the AL Foil is not sturdy enough for me, noting issues others have had ( don't want to muck around with warranty claims) and I also like the idea of the lesser maintenance which carbon affords. Does the F4 "take off" earlier with bigger wing ?

No worries Rich. I have heard from guys who had the NP RS4 Carbon foil that it does get going a little earlier. I think it may be a little less stable when you're getting used to it though as it doesnt have the vertical stabiliser like the AL foil. Maybe someone who has used the Carbon F4 foils from Pryde can answer your query better. :)

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Ian K said..

RichardG said..

seanhogan said..

Maddlad said..
Saw the brand new version of these foils today. Very nice.reat shaped wings and stabiliser with curved end plates

Like they were designed in the first place, but not executed... and now NP have to do a backflip and release curved wings...

In theory and practice what difference will this make ?

When you lose it on the Alfoil, fall backwards and catch sight of that straight tipped wing in your landing zone, glinting like an axe in the sunshine, you think of another reason to curve the tips. Downwardly curved, the tips are a little more out of the way and way more inclined to flex, causing less damage, if accidentally impacted end on.

Yeah thats been my worry too. I think thats why they say to hang onto the boom if you fall so you get dragged away from the foils.

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RichardG said..

Maddlad said..

RichardG said..
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?

Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?

How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?

Hi Richard, i use the NP AL Foil in my 2016 JP Slalom board which has a deep tuttle but isnt reinforced as far as i know. From what ive heard the lighter riders like myself (70kgs) dont have too many issues with the non re-inforced box but i think heavier riders may have some issues.

Hi Maddlad, Thanks for that invaluable advice and your experience which is in line with all the online research. I am 95 kg at the moment. I expect the AL Foil is not sturdy enough for me, noting issues others have had ( don't want to muck around with warranty claims) and I also like the idea of the lesser maintenance which carbon affords. Does the F4 "take off" earlier with bigger wing ?

Yes the Carbon NP F4 foil does foil up earlier than the AL. I think the Pinkie AL is a great foil for progressing on (I weigh around 88kg) and would comfortably foil up at 12 knots. With the F4 I can foil up at 10 knots and glide through 8 knots before re-connecting with a gust. Its not just the front wing thats the difference its the mast as well. AL is 85cm and F4 is 95cm. A light guy with good pumping technique could easily foil up on sub 10 knots with the F4.

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CoreAS said..

RichardG said..

Maddlad said..

RichardG said..
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?

Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?

How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?

Hi Richard, i use the NP AL Foil in my 2016 JP Slalom board which has a deep tuttle but isnt reinforced as far as i know. From what ive heard the lighter riders like myself (70kgs) dont have too many issues with the non re-inforced box but i think heavier riders may have some issues.

Hi Maddlad, Thanks for that invaluable advice and your experience which is in line with all the online research. I am 95 kg at the moment. I expect the AL Foil is not sturdy enough for me, noting issues others have had ( don't want to muck around with warranty claims) and I also like the idea of the lesser maintenance which carbon affords. Does the F4 "take off" earlier with bigger wing ?

Yes the Carbon NP F4 foil does foil up earlier than the AL. I think the Pinkie AL is a great foil for progressing on (I weigh around 88kg) and would comfortably foil up at 12 knots. With the F4 I can foil up at 10 knots and glide through 8 knots before re-connecting with a gust. Its not just the front wing thats the difference its the mast as well. AL is 85cm and F4 is 95cm. A light guy with good pumping technique could easily foil up on sub 10 knots with the F4.

Thanks. That is very helpful insight. For some additional perspective, can you please advise are you using a Foil specific board in these scenarios or a wide slalom board ? What volume, specs and model ? Thanks.

Hi Richard

this is video I was using the JP 135 foil pro 215 x 86 @ 135 liters.

I have also used the F4 on a RRD slalom board 225 x 79 @ 122 and it performed very well in light winds.

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CoreAS said..
Hi Richard

this is video I was using the JP 135 foil pro 215 x 86 @ 135 liters.

I have also used the F4 on a RRD slalom board 225 x 79 @ 122 and it performed very well in light winds.

Great vid mate. May I add how great JP and NP gear looks as well as performs.

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Maddlad said..

CoreAS said..
Hi Richard

this is video I was using the JP 135 foil pro 215 x 86 @ 135 liters.

I have also used the F4 on a RRD slalom board 225 x 79 @ 122 and it performed very well in light winds.

Great vid mate. May I add how great JP and NP gear looks as well as performs.

CoreAs, That is a great video. Thanks. I guess you can carry bigger sails on the JP 135 Foil pro as compared to the RRD slalom board (w.79) with the foil since the wider tail and leverage off the width is more conducive in the JP135 Foil Pro (215 cm x 86 cm) ie you have the leverage to push it all around with a bigger sail in lighter wind. So on the RRD slalom, at 79 you would use say a 5.7 or 6 m2 max in light winds (freeriding) with the F4 foil. Hopefully you can more effectively ( or more easily) use a 7.2 or 7.8 max on the JP135 Foil Pro in lighter winds say sub 10 knots. I don't think, based on my research, that the RRD slalom at 79 would cut it in the lighter winds with, the bigger sails and the F4 but better off using smaller sails only above 10 -12 knots , on the RRD slalom with the F4 foil, that is to say, trying to run larger sails (say 7m2 and up) and pushing the foil harder upwind in light wind would require a wider board than the RRD slalom at 79. This is but one of the advantage(s) of the foil specific boards which work better with racy foils like the F4. Is that correct ? I guess this is even more so with the racier boards like the JP Foil Pro 155 soon to be 150 and the RRD H Fire Foil 150-(Antoine Albeaus vehicle) which would perform even better with the bigger sails facilitating even earlier take off. Cheers Richard

The above is the 2018 model and the new 2019 pro model is at top and below. Seems the new pro models from manufacturers for foil specific boards are limited to 150 litre max. and 91 cm maximum, due to rule changes at PWA level, influenced by what fits on the aeroplane since too wide is becoming too big to transport on airlines/airports. Also looking more JP or formula influenced than the 2018 models. Sorry this is getting away from the thread's theme. However the wider the board the bigger sail you can carry upwind railing the board down to windward like a foiling Moth Mach2. I have picked up a 2018 NP F4 carbon foil on sale, so now I am looking for a board. I think the JP135 foil pro is looking good but the RRD is of interest in the Wood version from 2018 H Fire based on the X fire light wind. I hope I can source one as that looks like a good all round light wind board that will be comfortable to sail with or without foil. I don't think you could go wrong with either however so should decide in the next few days.

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Maddlad said..

CoreAS said..
Hi Richard

this is video I was using the JP 135 foil pro 215 x 86 @ 135 liters.

I have also used the F4 on a RRD slalom board 225 x 79 @ 122 and it performed very well in light winds.

Great vid mate. May I add how great JP and NP gear looks as well as performs.

Cheers Maddlad. I have switched this year to NP For light air foiling kit. 7.7, 6.7 V8 and 5.2, 5.7 hell cats. Combined with the correct mast it definitely helps with the pumping.

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RichardG said..

Maddlad said..

CoreAS said..
Hi Richard

this is video I was using the JP 135 foil pro 215 x 86 @ 135 liters.

I have also used the F4 on a RRD slalom board 225 x 79 @ 122 and it performed very well in light winds.

Great vid mate. May I add how great JP and NP gear looks as well as performs.

CoreAs, That is a great video. Thanks. I guess you can carry bigger sails on the JP 135 Foil pro as compared to the RRD slalom board (w.79) with the foil since the wider tail and leverage off the width is more conducive in the JP135 Foil Pro (215 cm x 86 cm) ie you have the leverage to push it all around with a bigger sail in lighter wind. So on the RRD slalom, at 79 you would use say a 5.7 or 6 m2 max in light winds (freeriding) with the F4 foil. Hopefully you can more effectively ( or more easily) use a 7.2 or 7.8 max on the JP135 Foil Pro in lighter winds say sub 10 knots. I don't think, based on my research, that the RRD slalom at 79 would cut it in the lighter winds with, the bigger sails and the F4 but better off using smaller sails only above 10 -12 knots , on the RRD slalom with the F4 foil, that is to say, trying to run larger sails (say 7m2 and up) and pushing the foil harder upwind in light wind would require a wider board than the RRD slalom at 79. This is but one of the advantage(s) of the foil specific boards which work better with racy foils like the F4. Is that correct ? I guess this is even more so with the racier boards like the JP Foil Pro 155 soon to be 150 and the RRD H Fire Foil 150-(Antoine Albeaus vehicle) which would perform even better with the bigger sails facilitating even earlier take off. Cheers Richard

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..

Maddlad said..

CoreAS said..
Hi Richard

this is video I was using the JP 135 foil pro 215 x 86 @ 135 liters.

I have also used the F4 on a RRD slalom board 225 x 79 @ 122 and it performed very well in light winds.

Great vid mate. May I add how great JP and NP gear looks as well as performs.

CoreAs, That is a great video. Thanks. I guess you can carry bigger sails on the JP 135 Foil pro as compared to the RRD slalom board (w.79) with the foil since the wider tail and leverage off the width is more conducive in the JP135 Foil Pro (215 cm x 86 cm) ie you have the leverage to push it all around with a bigger sail in lighter wind. So on the RRD slalom, at 79 you would use say a 5.7 or 6 m2 max in light winds (freeriding) with the F4 foil. Hopefully you can more effectively ( or more easily) use a 7.2 or 7.8 max on the JP135 Foil Pro in lighter winds say sub 10 knots. I don't think, based on my research, that the RRD slalom at 79 would cut it in the lighter winds with, the bigger sails and the F4 but better off using smaller sails only above 10 -12 knots , on the RRD slalom with the F4 foil, that is to say, trying to run larger sails (say 7m2 and up) and pushing the foil harder upwind in light wind would require a wider board than the RRD slalom at 79. This is but one of the advantage(s) of the foil specific boards which work better with racy foils like the F4. Is that correct ? I guess this is even more so with the racier boards like the JP Foil Pro 155 soon to be 150 and the RRD H Fire Foil 150-(Antoine Albeaus vehicle) which would perform even better with the bigger sails facilitating even earlier take off. Cheers Richard

Crazy as it sounds, I have used the RRD 79 wide with a 7.7 V8 and F4 foil in 10 knots. I was waiting for the JP 135 to come in and couldn't wait, ha! Now granted the video was made in winter time, the wind here gets much more dense, in the summer I would need more wind for that set up.

The RRD has now been modified for a Naish foil for stronger winds, so yes it's for sails 4.5 - 5.7. (I use the Naish Thrust only for winds over 17 knots).

Having the tail thickness as well as the width with the JP I find perfect for light wind, it gets tremendous amount of lift with a good pumping technique

Love the look of the RRD foil board, but they can be difficult to get in the states as I don't know anyone that rides one. But if Antoine used an F4 on a RRD at his weight, then it's got to be a great design?

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RichardG said..
Seems the new pro models from manufacturers for foil specific boards are limited to 150 litre max. and 91 cm maximum, due to rule changes at PWA level, influenced by what fits on the aeroplane since too wide is becoming too big to transport on airlines/airports.

I do not think there is a rule of 150 litres. Starboard's 2019 foil board is 177L, and 2019 Fanatic is 169L. The width, correct, max 91cm.

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sl55 said..

RichardG said..
Seems the new pro models from manufacturers for foil specific boards are limited to 150 litre max. and 91 cm maximum, due to rule changes at PWA level, influenced by what fits on the aeroplane since too wide is becoming too big to transport on airlines/airports.

I do not think there is a rule of 150 litres. Starboard's 2019 foil board is 177L, and 2019 Fanatic is 169L. The width, correct, max 91cm.

Yes on the volume I am not sure. What is JP's new 2019 big foiling board, is it 155 or 150 ? I do note that the RRD H Fire Pro for PWA racing is actually 155 litres for 2019 according to Windsurf UK July 2018. I suspect you are correct, as you indicate, the volume is not the restriction just the width.

Does anyone know if there is any difference between the Pryde AL foil fuselage length and the Pryde carbon F4 foil fuselage?

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Maddlad said..
Does anyone know if there is any difference between the Pryde AL foil fuselage length and the Pryde carbon F4 foil fuselage?

I don't know but this video appears to show them as the same. However it does appear the fuselage of the F4 protrudes out more rather than the streamlining of the AL foil so possibly the F4 is longer.

I have a 2018 NP RS Flight F4 which I ordered from overseas which has just cleared customs and I will measure it and advise you when I get it. I understand that the newer models will have longer fuselages according to some statements made by Antoine Albeau I read on the net.

Thanks Rich. I ask because my mate has just switched to the carbon RSX Convertible from the pink AL foil and he reckons the RSX foil is so much more stable because of the extra fuselage length and bigger foil, so i'm looking at my options.

Madlad, the RSX foil is quite a bit different to the NP F4 SS Flight carbon foil.

I've not foiled the RSX foil but the difference between the pinkie AL and F4 Carbon is a huge difference.

The pinkie AL is way more forgiving, takes more pressure to engage the foil but gives you more time to adjust yourself, if your new to foiling or foiling in stronger winds.

The carbon F4 is like blipping the throttle on a Bugatti. You give it some pressure and you'll climb quickly (mast is 95cm). It takes more technique to keep the board level and you're constantly adjusting, but if you want to go from point A to B, upwind and down wind quickest way possible the F4 will get you there...it's very very quick.

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elmo said..
Madlad, the RSX foil is quite a bit different to the NP F4 SS Flight carbon foil.

Thanks Elmo, from what ive seen the RSX is pretty stable and good all round. I'm just looking for something thats a bit more stable and i'm getting the feeling that a longer fuselage (not too long obviously) will help. Its not that i cant use the AL foil coz i can, i just find i'm having to make more adjustments to keep it steady compared to others with longer fuselage foils. :)

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CoreAS said..
I've not foiled the RSX foil but the difference between the pinkie AL and F4 Carbon is a huge difference.

The pinkie AL is way more forgiving, takes more pressure to engage the foil but gives you more time to adjust yourself, if your new to foiling or foiling in stronger winds.

The carbon F4 is like blipping the throttle on a Bugatti. You give it some pressure and you'll climb quickly (mast is 95cm). It takes more technique to keep the board level and you're constantly adjusting, but if you want to go from point A to B, upwind and down wind quickest way possible the F4 will get you there...it's very very quick.

Thanks CoreAs. I'm not worried about speed at this stage, just looking for something thats similar speed to the AL but steadier in flight.

2019 alflight

curved wings..... at last !!!

and a new model the "glide wind" with different head attachements (incl power box)

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seanhogan said..
2019 alflight

curved wings..... at last !!!

and a new model the "glide wind" with different head attachements (incl power box)

Yeah they're the ones i saw at the shop last week. I dont know if the wings on the AL Flight 2019 are further apart though to give more stability. It looks like a similar fuselage length.

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Maddlad said..
Yeah they're the ones i saw at the shop last week. I dont know if the wings on the AL Flight 2019 are further apart though to give more stability. It looks like a similar fuselage length.

Wow ! already released !!???

They don't seem to be further apart but the larger wings + curve should improve the stability quite a lot compared to the first edition !