Had some great runs on these on Saturday with the rear stabiliser in the neutral position. Managed to get some real lengthy flights and loved it. For the price a second hand set of these costs, they are a bargain imo. :)
My experience (having spent the best part of 6 months on the Alu-Foil) is the stabilizer doesn't create extra lift, it creates extra stabilitly. I know that sounds wrong but i havent found any of my foils to create extra lift by adjusting the stabilizer. I havent found a need to change my mast track position when triming my stabilizer wing. It does trim the angle of the board, and I think the efficency of the front wing (like flaps on an aeroplane, creating lift at lower speed but there is a trade off, ALWAYS). So for beginners.......2 washers. Slower speed flight (like a plane landing)
Had my first try today with a JP SLW 2018 pro and it went very well. The feeling is great until...i came on shore and found out the my foil was bend at the mast base
. I added a picture. Anyone else had this problem?
When they bend, thats where they bend, just curious, how much do you weigh? I have heard that NP will replace under warranty, but I have no persoal experience of this.
happened to a couple of guys here, NP replaced the masts with no problems.
If you're over 85/90kg you should maybe consider another model. It'll probably happen again.
Select to expand quoteWind Foiler said..
My experience (having spent the best part of 6 months on the Alu-Foil) is the stabilizer doesn't create extra lift, it creates extra stabilitly. I know that sounds wrong but i havent found any of my foils to create extra lift by adjusting the stabilizer. I havent found a need to change my mast track position when triming my stabilizer wing. It does trim the angle of the board, and I think the efficency of the front wing (like flaps on an aeroplane, creating lift at lower speed but there is a trade off, ALWAYS). So for beginners.......2 washers. Slower speed flight (like a plane landing)
I felt like It did for me. It kept shooting me straight out of the water without a chance to keep it flat. As soon as i changed the washer to the rear it was much more manageable. I currently have it in the neutral setting and it seems pretty good.
same here, without the washer there was no lift, couldn't get the blessed thing to fly in low/med winds...
all in all I think the pink alloy is suitable for light to medium weight riders and does need a 10/12 knt wind to get going
But once in the air it's bloody fast !!!
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
same here, without the washer there was no lift, couldn't get the blessed thing to fly in low/med winds...
all in all I think the pink alloy is suitable for light to medium weight riders and does need a 10/12 knt wind to get going
But once in the air it's bloody fast !!!
Yeah myself and Subsonic who posts on her both have the NP AL foils and we are both 70 kgs or less. We both have them set on neutral as otherwise its too much lift for us. If its super light wind we might put the washer in the front but we havent got that good yet. :)
Select to expand quoteWind Foiler said..
My experience (having spent the best part of 6 months on the Alu-Foil) is the stabilizer doesn't create extra lift, it creates extra stabilitly. I know that sounds wrong but i havent found any of my foils to create extra lift by adjusting the stabilizer. I havent found a need to change my mast track position when triming my stabilizer wing. It does trim the angle of the board, and I think the efficency of the front wing (like flaps on an aeroplane, creating lift at lower speed but there is a trade off, ALWAYS). So for beginners.......2 washers. Slower speed flight (like a plane landing)
There are a lot of semantics that could be argued about this topic but ultimately it does increase the 'lift' of the foil as a system because it increases the angle of attack of the front wing, which as you noted can be seen by a change in the trim angle of the board...and which you kind of explain in a round about way. As you also noted it increases stability because it increases the longitudinal dihedral of the two wings (also referred to as decalage). This is an important point because looking at aircraft, a monoplane which has zero or very little positive decalage is very unstable in pitch. This is what is happening when you trim the rear stab neutral (in NP terms), you reduce the decalage and hence stability....but as you note, you pay a penalty for this with drag. Having sailed an Np ally foil with the neutral NP trim (IE no washer), it is very unstable in pitch....compared to say an F4 setup for racing for a starboard race foil.
Personally, having tested every possible wing angle (on the F4 flight) you want to run max stabiliser trim (or max decalage), particularly if you are racing, it is the fastest and also most comfortable way around the course. Yes you pay a drag penalty for it but the added lift through front wing AoA and the fact you can run more power through your rig comfortably because of that makes it faster.
The only possible reason for running neutral of negative trim on the rear wing would be to make the foil feel more like normal windsurfing (more back foot weighted) or add a perceived 'safety factor' which I think is not the right way to go about it. In my opinion 
Select to expand quoteCJW said..Wind Foiler said..
My experience (having spent the best part of 6 months on the Alu-Foil) is the stabilizer doesn't create extra lift, it creates extra stabilitly. I know that sounds wrong but i havent found any of my foils to create extra lift by adjusting the stabilizer. I havent found a need to change my mast track position when triming my stabilizer wing. It does trim the angle of the board, and I think the efficency of the front wing (like flaps on an aeroplane, creating lift at lower speed but there is a trade off, ALWAYS). So for beginners.......2 washers. Slower speed flight (like a plane landing)
There are a lot of semantics that could be argued about this topic but ultimately it does increase the 'lift' of the foil as a system because it increases the angle of attack of the front wing, which as you noted can be seen by a change in the trim angle of the board...and which you kind of explain in a round about way. As you also noted it increases stability because it increases the longitudinal dihedral of the two wings (also referred to as decalage). This is an important point because looking at aircraft, a monoplane which has zero or very little positive decalage is very unstable in pitch. This is what is happening when you trim the rear stab neutral (in NP terms), you reduce the decalage and hence stability....but as you note, you pay a penalty for this with drag. Having sailed an Np ally foil with the neutral NP trim (IE no washer), it is very unstable in pitch....compared to say an F4 setup for racing for a starboard race foil.
Personally, having tested every possible wing angle (on the F4 flight) you want to run max stabiliser trim (or max decalage), particularly if you are racing, it is the fastest and also most comfortable way around the course. Yes you pay a drag penalty for it but the added lift through front wing AoA and the fact you can run more power through your rig comfortably because of that makes it faster.
The only possible reason for running neutral of negative trim on the rear wing would be to make the foil feel more like normal windsurfing (more back foot weighted) or add a perceived 'safety factor' which I think is not the right way to go about it. In my opinion
That all rings in very true as what ive felt to date. Im gonna give the washer in front a go next.
Select to expand quoteCJW said..Wind Foiler said..
My experience (having spent the best part of 6 months on the Alu-Foil) is the stabilizer doesn't create extra lift, it creates extra stabilitly. I know that sounds wrong but i havent found any of my foils to create extra lift by adjusting the stabilizer. I havent found a need to change my mast track position when triming my stabilizer wing. It does trim the angle of the board, and I think the efficency of the front wing (like flaps on an aeroplane, creating lift at lower speed but there is a trade off, ALWAYS). So for beginners.......2 washers. Slower speed flight (like a plane landing)
There are a lot of semantics that could be argued about this topic but ultimately it does increase the 'lift' of the foil as a system because it increases the angle of attack of the front wing, which as you noted can be seen by a change in the trim angle of the board...and which you kind of explain in a round about way. As you also noted it increases stability because it increases the longitudinal dihedral of the two wings (also referred to as decalage). This is an important point because looking at aircraft, a monoplane which has zero or very little positive decalage is very unstable in pitch. This is what is happening when you trim the rear stab neutral (in NP terms), you reduce the decalage and hence stability....but as you note, you pay a penalty for this with drag. Having sailed an Np ally foil with the neutral NP trim (IE no washer), it is very unstable in pitch....compared to say an F4 setup for racing for a starboard race foil.
Personally, having tested every possible wing angle (on the F4 flight) you want to run max stabiliser trim (or max decalage), particularly if you are racing, it is the fastest and also most comfortable way around the course. Yes you pay a drag penalty for it but the added lift through front wing AoA and the fact you can run more power through your rig comfortably because of that makes it faster.
The only possible reason for running neutral of negative trim on the rear wing would be to make the foil feel more like normal windsurfing (more back foot weighted) or add a perceived 'safety factor' which I think is not the right way to go about it. In my opinion
Thanks for that input CJW, as Subsonic said, we may have to try the washer in the front next time to see if we can keep it on the water. Should we be looking to move the mast step forward to compensate for the extra lift and stop us getting chucked out of the water?
I currently run my mast step in the middle unless its very light.
Cheers
:)
M
Apologize....the point I was trying to make was, if these guys are struggling to keep their gear in the water trimming the foil is not the solution. It doesn't have that sort of effect that's all. Yes it creates lift and effects the attack angle of the front wing, but it definitely wont solve this problem.
Enjoy the learning experience. TRY TUNE TRY AGAIN
Went out last night after work and got a couple of runs on the foils. I tried the washer under the front of the rear stabiliser as suggested above but didnt find it any more stable in pitch than when i had them in the neutral position (without the washer). What i did find is that as before when i first tried them that way, the foils tried to take me to the top of the water straight away, so i had to be pretty heavy on the front foot and wary of gusts as it blew me out of the water a couple of times. I had my mast step in the middle of the board and only about 8 mil away from the front of the track. I'm not sure whether i need to put the mast track right at the front to get the foils to work better with the washer in the front. Happy to hear suggestions. :)
yes definitely adavance mast foot (close to all the way), that's what I did on my 128 patrik with the al flight
as stated previously, front washer really improves take off but makes flying a bit "harder"
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
yes definitely adavance mast foot (close to all the way), that's what I did on my 128 patrik with the al flight
as stated previously, front washer really improves take off but makes flying a bit "harder"
Yeah i dont have any real issue with take off. I only tried the washer up front again because someone mentioned earlier that it made it more stable, however i didnt really feel any extra stability in pitch with the washer in the front compared to no washer. I'll give it a few more goes with the mast further forward to see if it makes it better when we get some breeze. Cheers for your input. :)
I always found that without the washer in it was hard to get it to "pop" - I'm about 85kg
per a few of the other posts though mast position helps the most to stabilise. Am a bit hamstrung with foot at the minute but measure off a Jp foilboard to get the ideal spot relative to the foil - I've found around the 1250-1260 range works the best and move forward another 10mm as wind picks up
Select to expand quoteAdam555 said..
I always found that without the washer in it was hard to get it to "pop" - I'm about 85kg
per a few of the other posts though mast position helps the most to stabilise. Am a bit hamstrung with foot at the minute but measure off a Jp foilboard to get the ideal spot relative to the foil - I've found around the 1250-1260 range works the best and move forward another 10mm as wind picks up
Thanks Adam. Where are you measuring the 1250 from and too? Is it the circular base of the mast step to the front of the fin box etc?
:)
Sorry the 1250 on a jp foil board is 1250mm from the front screw hole of the foil in the fin box to the centre of the mast base
Select to expand quoteAdam555 said..
Sorry the 1250 on a jp foil board is 1250mm from the front screw hole of the foil in the fin box to the centre of the mast base
Ok great, i shall check that against my JP Slalom board. Cheers :)
Select to expand quoteAdam555 said..
Sorry the 1250 on a jp foil board is 1250mm from the front screw hole of the foil in the fin box to the centre of the mast base
I had a quick measure between the mast track and the front hole in the fin box and i dont think i can get to 1250 mm Adam.
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..Adam555 said..
Sorry the 1250 on a jp foil board is 1250mm from the front screw hole of the foil in the fin box to the centre of the mast base
I had a quick measure between the mast track and the front hole in the fin box and i dont think i can get to 1250 mm Adam.
The indicators on the JP foilboard are from the tail to the masttrack position.. i ride mine at 120-123 from the tail.
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?
Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?
How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?
Hi Richard,
If you are worried about the tuttle box get yourself a Zeeko with the plate with tuttle head option.
I have one that i use on a Starboard Futura and on a F2 SX XXL, there are plenty of guys using it on non reinforced boxes.
The Zeeko takes off earlier than the NP and is very easy to fly, but still fast so you are not bored with it very soon. The 2018 model has some pretty good reviews.
Select to expand quoteNelle said..
This post seams to have run out of steam, but it has two interests for me, so Ill give it a go. I have just purchased a NP AL foil and need tips pretty desperately and I really think I need a wind thingy (anemometer) as sail selection for foiling is a bit of a mystery and I think I need some comparable data. Can anyone recommend a cheapy?
kestrelmeters.com.au/products/kestrel-1000-wind-meter?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=271165710&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4cC4ybHy2wIVRiUrCh334QoREAQYAyABEgLtGvD_BwE
Very good meter. Low cost. they have way more fancy ones as well if you like the extra features, wind chill, altitude etc etc
Be ready to be surprised at how little the wind is REALLY blowing. Number of days the guys are guessing "oh its honking 20-25 knots" the meter never lies and its more like 16-18.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..
Does anyone use the NP AL Foil in an older style board without a reinforced foil ready tuttle box ?
Can it lead to breakage more than say the other foils which provide some support to the box even if not reinforced eg Slingshot, RRD etc on the Slingshot I understand that: it "...includes built in base flange to transfer loads beyond the box and more surface area of the board, not just the box. This feature is critical if you expect to use a foil with an existing board. A regular Tuttle box is not reinforced to handle the loads of the foil." The RRD includes a similar feature and the newer foils of some newer models from other brands are doing this. Does this mean the NP foils are more likely to cause damage to existing board without reinforced box ?
How does the NP AL Foil compare to the Fanatic Flow H9 Foil ? Which is rated better ?
In the words of AA, "try it on an old board, if the box breaks reinforce it, if doesn't you don't have to"
From personal experience the NP is a great entry level foil
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..Maddlad said..Adam555 said..
Sorry the 1250 on a jp foil board is 1250mm from the front screw hole of the foil in the fin box to the centre of the mast base
I had a quick measure between the mast track and the front hole in the fin box and i dont think i can get to 1250 mm Adam.
The indicators on the JP foilboard are from the tail to the masttrack position.. i ride mine at 120-123 from the tail.
Thanks WOH. I shall look at that, although my board is a slalom board so it has the extra bit of tail that sticks out past the end of the fin box.
Saw the brand new version of these foils today. Very nice. Full carbon wings with aluminium mast and fuselage. Great shaped wings and stabiliser with curved end plates more like the full Carbon F4 made versions that Pryde sell.
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
Saw the brand new version of these foils today. Very nice.reat shaped wings and stabiliser with curved end plates
Like they were designed in the first place, but not executed... and now NP have to do a backflip and release curved wings...
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..Maddlad said..
Saw the brand new version of these foils today. Very nice.reat shaped wings and stabiliser with curved end plates
Like they were designed in the first place, but not executed... and now NP have to do a backflip and release curved wings...
In theory and practice what difference will this make ?
