Here is a what I call a light wind sail
i recon I can pop up around 8kn
and fly through 5/6 in lulls.
using a 10 and starboard millennium wing.
At around 11/12kn I am changing down to a 9.0

And another

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CAN17 said..
SS/infinity 76/JP 135.
I don't think there is a very fine line between light wind and not (yet?), but I would consider this light(no white caps).
photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMcuFLr2L46Omsb-gs_FsqsSIfMP_lSaxPyhWAcaz0g7KJpB0CyyH0QvNR5QqXBnA?key=eUdtN1NRX1c5QmZQb19WZ1pkNjVzTTRFY0taVFd3

Looking good - nicely balanced

Don't feed the troll guys..

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sailor1 said..
Hi Sean,
Your analysis is pretty spot on. I have endured pitch issues especially because I sail exclusively in Sydney harbour which can be a bit like a washing machine with refracted boat wakes with wind chop mixed together. I'm not looking for big angles up or downwind so would SB race setup still be a good LW option?

If you do decide to get a new foil set, get Slingshot or Starboard. Both are modular with lots of options to create the right ride for you. If you decide to go with Starboard race, get the 1100 wing. The race comes with an 800, but you'll want/need more lifting power. I have the 1100 front wing on essentially the Race Pro. (110 mast, 115 fuse, 255 stab, 1100 wing). I'm 80kg and am getting flights in 6-8 knot winds.

Most of the heavier guys around my parts are using the Slingshot infinity wings. They are massively high lift foils. Much easier to get flight.

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IndecentExposur said..

sailor1 said..
Hi Sean,
Your analysis is pretty spot on. I have endured pitch issues especially because I sail exclusively in Sydney harbour which can be a bit like a washing machine with refracted boat wakes with wind chop mixed together. I'm not looking for big angles up or downwind so would SB race setup still be a good LW option?

If you do decide to get a new foil set, get Slingshot or Starboard. Both are modular with lots of options to create the right ride for you. If you decide to go with Starboard race, get the 1100 wing. The race comes with an 800, but you'll want/need more lifting power. I have the 1100 front wing on essentially the Race Pro. (110 mast, 115 fuse, 255 stab, 1100 wing). I'm 80kg and am getting flights in 6-8 knot winds.

Most of the heavier guys around my parts are using the Slingshot infinity wings. They are massively high lift foils. Much easier to get flight.

There are more modular platforms tho, think of select offering a whole bunch of wings and masts and fuselages, moses doing the same thing, taaroa, alpine, naish, pryde's glide foils, F-One has a whole interchangable wake/surf/wind/kite range, very similar to slingshots... Modularity seems to become more of a rule than an exception. Its also hard to know what you'd call modular? Slingshot has a single fuselage but a plethora of wing options and masts, Loke have 1 freeride/freerace mast/fuse combo, but offer 5 different wings and 2 stabs, ranging from 1600 (coming) to 650. And 450 and 280. From surf/freeride to speed. The new wings are even retrofitable to their first model, Is that not modular enough?

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snides8 said..
And another

Awesome video snides!!
That looks like a big foil sail, was it the 10m in the second vid?
Good video quality too. Much better then a Samsung s6 phone

White cups is also not a reliable indicator. If you did windsurf/kite at lake Simcoe, there can be lots of white caps even at 8 kn. Because it is shallow.

I suspect you see Whitecaps at 7.5 knots breeze.

Looks like good wind and no white cups. Any published references about white cups/wind relation or it is just everyone's personal experience?
My practical question is about this sail twist at 1:03. Does the light and stable wind need so much of the sail twist? When viewing this sail on 1:03 it seems like the bottom on the sail has too much of the angle of attack, while the top of the sail is probably 0. At a light wind and flat water the gradient of the wind speed is low while foil goes fast so the apparent wind is coming at almost the same angle to the sail from the base to the top. Besides, the sail is above the maximum wind speed gradient because of the foil. Sails for Light wind foiling should have very little twist if any.

Read.
Whitecaps start at 7.5 mph breezen, but can depend on current and surface water conditions.
No data, just 60+ years of living by the water and windsurfing/surfing.

Whitecaps are a good indicator for me that foiling will be fun, but I find there's no hard and fast rule. Where I sail, at low tides an upwind sandbar is exposed, or just below the surface that puts a stop to whitecaps, so it can be windy with no whitecaps. Also there are days at high tide where there will be white caps from a very light breeze blowing over a pre-existing chop/swell that's come in from miles away. Some of my best days have been with virtually no whitecaps, then I've had similar looking sea state days with no white caps that have been awful.

Look over and upwind of the sandbar and you will see the whitecaps.

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LeeD said..
Look over and upwind of the sandbar and you will see the whitecaps.

It's hard to as it sucks dry a huge area covering hundreds of acres upwind.

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ZYX said..
Looks like good wind and no white cups. Any published references about white cups/wind relation or it is just everyone's personal experience?
My practical question is about this sail twist at 1:03. Does the light and stable wind need so much of the sail twist? When viewing this sail on 1:03 it seems like the bottom on the sail has too much of the angle of attack, while the top of the sail is probably 0. At a light wind and flat water the gradient of the wind speed is low while foil goes fast so the apparent wind is coming at almost the same angle to the sail from the base to the top. Besides, the sail is above the maximum wind speed gradient because of the foil. Sails for Light wind foiling should have very little twist if any.

A bad salesman and a liar. When you get my money back for the defective hydrofoil that broke on the first gurney

An old video of windfoil meeting with 8-10 knts near Paris. I used JP 135 hydrofoil, Loftsails Skyscape 7.6, Lokefoil LK1 wing 1200

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tintingwen said..
An old video of windfoil meeting with 8-10 knts near Paris. I used JP 135 hydrofoil, Loftsails Skyscape 7.6, Lokefoil LK1 wing 1200

Interesting to compare against the planing windsurfer on 3:19 of this video. Perhaps, the windsurfer is light with larger sail so it can plane when Loke 1200 can fly. In light wind I would expect the foil going much faster compared to a windsurfer.
I have been traveling this year in intention to try the spots recommended on this forum. On the 3-d week of October I measured up to 17 knots wind in Strogino, Moscow, RF. This is the spot from antonmik. The wind in Moscow is not consistent. You get on plane / on foil at wind gust and then continue. Did not see white caps at 17 knots gusts on that lake. It was impossibly good warm weather in Moscow up to 20C and good wind. There was open rental in Strogino managed by the local pros. Indeed, I asked about Anton (antonmik) if he comes here. They smiled...

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IndecentExposur said..

sailor1 said..
Hi Sean,
Your analysis is pretty spot on. I have endured pitch issues especially because I sail exclusively in Sydney harbour which can be a bit like a washing machine with refracted boat wakes with wind chop mixed together. I'm not looking for big angles up or downwind so would SB race setup still be a good LW option?

If you do decide to get a new foil set, get Slingshot or Starboard. Both are modular with lots of options to create the right ride for you. If you decide to go with Starboard race, get the 1100 wing. The race comes with an 800, but you'll want/need more lifting power. I have the 1100 front wing on essentially the Race Pro. (110 mast, 115 fuse, 255 stab, 1100 wing). I'm 80kg and am getting flights in 6-8 knot winds.

Most of the heavier guys around my parts are using the Slingshot infinity wings. They are massively high lift foils. Much easier to get flight.

And do not forget the Moses 2020 offering, it has everything from ultra light wing to fast freestyle/freerace. Construction is tops, frankly no comparison with Slingshot.

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ZYX said..

I have been traveling this year in intention to try the spots recommended on this forum. On the 3-d week of October I measured up to 17 knots wind in Strogino, Moscow, RF. This is the spot from antonmik. The wind in Moscow is not consistent. You get on plane / on foil at wind gust and then continue. Did not see white caps at 17 knots gusts on that lake. It was impossibly good warm weather in Moscow up to 20C and good wind. There was open rental in Strogino managed by the local pros. Indeed, I asked about Anton (antonmik) if he comes here. They smiled...

A deceiver and a rogue seller, that same you not said that regulation in Moscow 17 October. I closed the season in early October. I wish I could punch you in the face for cheating on me and not returning $ 360 for a broken foil. In Strogino incidentally rentals several. What kind of a liar were you?

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ZYX said..
Looks like good wind and no white cups. Any published references about white cups/wind relation or it is just everyone's personal experience?
My practical question is about this sail twist at 1:03. Does the light and stable wind need so much of the sail twist? When viewing this sail on 1:03 it seems like the bottom on the sail has too much of the angle of attack, while the top of the sail is probably 0. At a light wind and flat water the gradient of the wind speed is low while foil goes fast so the apparent wind is coming at almost the same angle to the sail from the base to the top. Besides, the sail is above the maximum wind speed gradient because of the foil. Sails for Light wind foiling should have very little twist if any.

Asked Lex as snag Foil. He said he was lying around because Foil was bad.

here's his review of snag Foil

Under exit on wing and takeoff on 20-30 centimeters over's surface water Foil more or less stable, under rise higher is beginning to affect small rigidity Foil, he is beginning to curl and Board sharply is given with vtykanie windward aboard in water. This moment can be offset by a sharp opening of the sail, but then the speed drops greatly and planning ends.
Thus, Foil is not enough stiffness and height of the legs. If on flat his still can be modicum as something to control, then on chop from 50 centimeters this will be enough problematic.
So the design is quite interesting, but requires improvement. In primarily need increase rigidity on twisting, but this already will require 100% carbon fiber (tested Foil made from glass). With increasing heights rigidity will become even lower, so that is obtained a vicious circle...

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IndecentExposur said..

IWB said..

IndecentExposur said..

sailor1 said..
I learnt to wind foil on a JP135 Pro with a Neil Pryde F4 carbon foil so bit of a steep learning curve. My largest sail is a NP 7.8 R-SX with matching NP 95% carbon mast, however at 92 kg I am finding l still need about 12 knots gust to get on the foil, with stab angle at max lift. This particular board 's recommended largest sail is 8m so going bigger sail probably won't work. Would buying a larger board with a 9m sail work with my foil ? Do I also need a bigger front wing longer fuse ect.

For starters, I don't believe the recommended max sail that board manufacturers have. Once you're out of the water, the board has little to do with sail size. If you have access to a larger sail, use it. My 8.0 is so much more powerful than my 7.0 in light winds. I'm moving to The new 8.5 Hydra when it gets here.
But, the biggest factor in getting lift with less speed is the front wing. My opinion that is the best place to start. Get the biggest one money can buy. I struggled with my SB GT setup; I needed more speed to get the 800cm2 wing to work. Moving to an 1100cm2 wing in front made a huge difference. And having a 8.0+ rounds out the speed issue to get that lift.
Fuse length doesn't have a ton of benefit, other than it's harder to adjust in flight making it less prone to cavitating earlier.

Summary: bigger sail and bigger wing.

I actually found the Starboard 115 fuselage to increase the lightwind performance over the 95 fuselage when using the 1000cm2 front wing and recommend if trying to push the ultimate lightwind performance. The front wing sits further forward when using the 115 fuselage than the 95 fuselage thus creating more lift/power. Once up and foiling the 115 is very stable and easy to adjust. It only becomes a handful when overpowered which you then can drop down to the 95 fuselage and or 800 front wing.

My theory is that the longer fuse makes it harder to pitch, thus reducing the possibility of cavitation (not breaching). The fact that the front wing goes forward is to balance the extension of the tail. But heck, we're discussing physics at this point. I added that 1100 front wing on my 115 cm fuse and absolutely love it!

Indecent I disagree the wing more forward with the 115 fuse positively creates more lift than the 95 with the wing a few inches towards the tail. I have the SB race set up and have tried them both.

It is not MORE lift or LESS lift that is changed by the fuselage length. Instead, it is the WHERE of the lift.

The MORE and LESS is determined only by the size and shape of the front wing.

Since the fuselage determines the WHERE, you still have to find out WHERE the lift is centered on your board. Then you adjust footstraps, sail mast base, stance and feet, etc., accordingly.

An another video ...More foil than fin in light wind on this lake near Paris !
In these wind conditions, some are still asking the question, others have taken the plunge and have foils under their boards !

Thank you for the nice videos.
Perhaps, it is an engineering opinion.

At 5:53 the board speed is 22km/h and you are descending despite 1200 wing. Then you land too soon. Too much drag with large wing. Smaller wing needs more speed to fly but you stay longer in flight when wind drops. I think using larger wing for light wind is a misconception because of not enough skill to get a smaller wing into a flight.
Do you see anyone flying at 0:29 while the note says 8-12 knots on the second video?

Since we see non foilers planing it could be 12+ knots on the remaining portion of the video. Do not see white caps that we previously believed to be starting at 10 knots.
I think we have to admit that white caps can be at 10 knots in some locations. But in France we do not see white caps at 12 notes. In my area white caps start showing up at 6 knots in the ocean and it may be very flat on our inner waters at stronger wind like on this video:


segler said.." Since the fuselage determines the WHERE, you still have to find out WHERE the lift is centered on your board. Then you adjust footstraps, sail mast base, stance and feet, etc., accordingly." Most likely you will need to move the footstraps, unless your foils has an option to be moved.