I have been sailing the 76i for about 3 years now and love it but I have now got to the point where its probably holding me back
The obvious next step is the 730
What would this give me more and would I lose some bottom end slow speed take of for the extra top speed
I geuse what I'm asking is is it worth the ?2400 price tag

If you only freestyle, your i76 is superior.
If you only like small sails, i76 is better.
If you're happy with fit and finish of i76, you won't appreciate the better fit and finish if Phan..
If you like the speed of i76, it's good enough.

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LeeD said..
If you only freestyle, your i76 is superior.
If you only like small sails, i76 is better.
If you're happy with fit and finish of i76, you won't appreciate the better fit and finish if Phan..
If you like the speed of i76, it's good enough.

Have you actually foiled the phantasm 730? If so for how long?

Seanchor....
I have not used Phantasm...
Days on i76, Naish 1220, 1150, and most with 600.
One session only with slab 1000, old 550, and older f4's 750 and 850.
Basically, you are talking of low aspect 1550 vs new 750. Lots of threads on this forum about differences, not specifically between i75 and 730, but general characteristics between low aspect to hi aspect foils are applicable across the spectrum of foil manufacturers.

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seaanchor said..
I have been sailing the 76i for about 3 years now and love it but I have now got to the point where its probably holding me back
The obvious next step is the 730
What would this give me more and would I lose some bottom end slow speed take of for the extra top speed
I geuse what I'm asking is is it worth the ?2400 price tag

Hi there. I used the i76 for 18 months and upgraded to the PFI730 8 months ago.

For me, the PFI730 is more stable at higher foiling speeds. It doesn't seem to want to foil out like the i76 did in swell. In my experience the PFI730 is a more refined version of the i76. That said, the i76 is a great wing and still holds up well against the new gear. Their characteristics are similar, both being low aspect wings.

PFI730 - span 730mm, 1437cm2 surface area
i76 - span 765mm, 1534cm2 surface area.

Im definitely stoked with the new phantasm gear, mainly riding open ocean swells when I can. I'm sure there are plenty of others here who have upgraded from i76 to PFI730 who can provide some useful insight. It may also be useful to explain where you foil and why you think the i76 may be holding you back.

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LeeD said..
Are you soooo ignorant you can't talk about differences between 1st gen low aspect 1550 vs 3rd gen high aspect 730?
Really, is your knowledge limited only to what YOU have experienced yourself?

The OP is looking for advice on HG i76 Vs Phantasm 730 of by the way there is a 730 LA and HA front wing version of which you have admitted never actually foiled tested either one (hardly anyone has tested the 730 HA they have been difficult to get)..

Comparing your Naish 600 foil set up doesn't answer the OP question and your first reply claims are completely made up, so yes someone has to call out the usual BS!

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seaanchor said..
I have been sailing the 76i for about 3 years now and love it but I have now got to the point where its probably holding me back
The obvious next step is the 730
What would this give me more and would I lose some bottom end slow speed take of for the extra top speed
I geuse what I'm asking is is it worth the ?2400 price tag

I have not used the Phantasm as I made my transition to Armstrong foils since Phantasm was not out during my transition. I feel that Core has direct experience with both infinity and phantasm if recall correctly he used to ride on Slingshot infinity foils of various wings prior to Phantasm switch. I would follow his direct experience as he put out really informative videos like here. You could find number of his excellent videos for Phantasm ride through his youtube channel.

Dude..."made up" is part of any forum. Op did not specifically say HA or LA, and did not specifically say "you must use this".
As for LA 730, anyone...ANYONE...can say the Phan is an improvement over the 4 year old design of i76.
Yes, due to delays, Phantasm is a 2 year old design.

I've used both and can confidently say..
If freeride foiling is your thing the phantasm PFI 730 is superior
Regardless of sail size the Phantasm is better
If your happy with the fit of Hoverglide i76 you will be super impressed with Phantasm

To clarify the infinity 76 is 1500cm sq
The phantasm pfi730 is 1450cm sq

Not sure what LeeD's talking about re high aspect but if you want you can get high aspect foils to fit the Phantasm fuse

Im currently frothing on the Phantasm 926

If DLee had to post from personal experience we'd never hear from him.

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Grantmac said..
If DLee had to post from personal experience we'd never hear from him.

How good would that be

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2keen said..
I've used both and can confidently say..
If freeride foiling is your thing the phantasm PFI 730 is superior
Regardless of sail size the Phantasm is better
If your happy with the fit of Hoverglide i76 you will be super impressed with Phantasm

To clarify the infinity 76 is 1500cm sq
The phantasm pfi730 is 1450cm sq

Not sure what LeeD's talking about re high aspect but if you want you can get high aspect foils to fit the Phantasm fuse

Im currently frothing on the Phantasm 926

Agree with Simon.
The Phantasm PFI 730 is a more refined Infinity 76 - a hard act to follow because the Infinity 76 is an epic wing.

If you want just one setup the Phantasm carbon mast with PFI 730 will easily handle winds of 12 to 30 knots (if you're over 80 kgs) and is pretty quick.
Cranked it through a turn with a 5.9 sail in 20 knot winds to get 19.7 knots mid-gybe - a super controllable foil.

Ok, you got me.
Know Phantasm makes a HA 730 also.
Why would someone go from i76 to Phantasm 1450 if 2500 bucks is involved?
A 730 HA can easily be used as an all around foil.

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Shorebreak said..

seaanchor said..
I have been sailing the 76i for about 3 years now and love it but I have now got to the point where its probably holding me back
The obvious next step is the 730
What would this give me more and would I lose some bottom end slow speed take of for the extra top speed
I geuse what I'm asking is is it worth the ?2400 price tag

Hi there. I used the i76 for 18 months and upgraded to the PFI730 8 months ago.

For me, the PFI730 is more stable at higher foiling speeds. It doesn't seem to want to foil out like the i76 did in swell. In my experience the PFI730 is a more refined version of the i76. That said, the i76 is a great wing and still holds up well against the new gear. Their characteristics are similar, both being low aspect wings.

PFI730 - span 730mm, 1437cm2 surface area
i76 - span 765mm, 1534cm2 surface area.

Im definitely stoked with the new phantasm gear, mainly riding open ocean swells when I can. I'm sure there are plenty of others here who have upgraded from i76 to PFI730 who can provide some useful insight. It may also be useful to explain where you foil and why you think the i76 may be holding you back.

Hi shoerbreak
I sail the Thames Estuary in the UK I'm 75kg
It's mostly confused short Chop so no swell riding
I use the 76 in 10 mph wind with a 6m
Upto 35mph with a 4m although that is mor of a survival sail at that point
My top speeds are about 21mph although that's bairing away into a gybe
I can sail a reach at upto 20mph but it takes maximum concentration and normally ends badly ??
Would I lose or gain any bottom end performance
And what would I gain at the top end
I have a warpspeed 65 that never comes out because although it's a bit faster you give up to much bottom end and gybe ability
Thanks for your input

I've sailed both, although the Phantasm only for a few runs while a friend borrowed my Tillo/Taaroa setup. I've spent a fair amount of time on the i76. Hard to quantify the difference but the feel is really different and you would never be confused about which you were on. The 76 is remarkably forgiving but the Phantasm is much stiffer and more direct, and whether it's because it's more efficient or just because it's stiffer, it's significantly faster too. If you're a skier as I am it's a familiar difference - the i76 feels like you're on chopped up spring corn snow and the Phantasm like you're on cold chalk. Both are fun but the chalk holds a tighter turn and is faster. I haven't had either one out in swell and haven't jumped them either.

Seaanchor, you have some excellent free foilers in the post already that have some serious TOW with the i76 and it sounds like you are more than ready for the Phantasm 730 LA.

When you first drive upwind on the Phantasm mast you will instantly feel the mast stiffness difference. The front wing is smoother, and refined and your top speed will increase for as long as you want to hold on!

It is my go to foil wing in smallish waves and steep chop with sails 4.0 to 5.0.

The biggest difference I feel is the 730 LA is not as pitchy as the i76, sometimes I felt the i76 had a little too much lift the windier it got, once up and flying on the 730 LA the foil height is super steady.

Thanks coreas
S

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seaanchor said..

Shorebreak said..

seaanchor said..
I have been sailing the 76i for about 3 years now and love it but I have now got to the point where its probably holding me back
The obvious next step is the 730
What would this give me more and would I lose some bottom end slow speed take of for the extra top speed
I geuse what I'm asking is is it worth the ?2400 price tag

Hi there. I used the i76 for 18 months and upgraded to the PFI730 8 months ago.

For me, the PFI730 is more stable at higher foiling speeds. It doesn't seem to want to foil out like the i76 did in swell. In my experience the PFI730 is a more refined version of the i76. That said, the i76 is a great wing and still holds up well against the new gear. Their characteristics are similar, both being low aspect wings.

PFI730 - span 730mm, 1437cm2 surface area
i76 - span 765mm, 1534cm2 surface area.

Im definitely stoked with the new phantasm gear, mainly riding open ocean swells when I can. I'm sure there are plenty of others here who have upgraded from i76 to PFI730 who can provide some useful insight. It may also be useful to explain where you foil and why you think the i76 may be holding you back.

Hi shoerbreak
I sail the Thames Estuary in the UK I'm 75kg
It's mostly confused short Chop so no swell riding
I use the 76 in 10 mph wind with a 6m
Upto 35mph with a 4m although that is mor of a survival sail at that point
My top speeds are about 21mph although that's bairing away into a gybe
I can sail a reach at upto 20mph but it takes maximum concentration and normally ends badly ??
Would I lose or gain any bottom end performance
And what would I gain at the top end
I have a warpspeed 65 that never comes out because although it's a bit faster you give up to much bottom end and gybe ability
Thanks for your input

Hi seanchor,

I think you'd certainly appreciate the improved performance of the PFI730 in those conditions. I'm the same weight and the local beach is renowned for choppy conditions. My 1st few sessions on the 730 were a real eye opener. As CoreAS said, the 730 just drives through the swell and chop, particularly when the wind gets up, this is when the i76 gets pitchy. It's so much more confidence inspiring so you can push harder. I love it.

The 730 is a bit quicker, but not massively. If you want quicker then you have to go a smaller wing like your 65 and it seems you know the trade off there.

I stayed with the aluminium mast - you can use your current hover glide mast with a base adapter - which allowed me to invest in the the new HA Phantasm wing - the PTM926, which I use for for lighter conditions. That thing is also a weapon and I love the glide and performance in lighter winds. I think this would be a game changer for you if you're foiling in the Thames, which I assume has fluky winds. Plenty of others on here 'frothing' on that wing.

I think you'd definitely appreciate the upgrade from i76 to PFI730.
The upgrade to Phantasm gear will create other problems though . tough decisions on carbons mast or a PTM926 wing . or both . Those are exciting decisions!

Does anyone no what the PFI 730 with longer fuse and stabilizer weighs compared to the hoverglide i76 with fuse and stabilizer. Thinking of upgrading and the weight means a lot as I get weaker with age.

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Shorebreak said..

seaanchor said..

Shorebreak said..

seaanchor said..
I have been sailing the 76i for about 3 years now and love it but I have now got to the point where its probably holding me back
The obvious next step is the 730
What would this give me more and would I lose some bottom end slow speed take of for the extra top speed
I geuse what I'm asking is is it worth the ?2400 price tag

Hi there. I used the i76 for 18 months and upgraded to the PFI730 8 months ago.

For me, the PFI730 is more stable at higher foiling speeds. It doesn't seem to want to foil out like the i76 did in swell. In my experience the PFI730 is a more refined version of the i76. That said, the i76 is a great wing and still holds up well against the new gear. Their characteristics are similar, both being low aspect wings.

PFI730 - span 730mm, 1437cm2 surface area
i76 - span 765mm, 1534cm2 surface area.

Im definitely stoked with the new phantasm gear, mainly riding open ocean swells when I can. I'm sure there are plenty of others here who have upgraded from i76 to PFI730 who can provide some useful insight. It may also be useful to explain where you foil and why you think the i76 may be holding you back.

Hi shoerbreak
I sail the Thames Estuary in the UK I'm 75kg
It's mostly confused short Chop so no swell riding
I use the 76 in 10 mph wind with a 6m
Upto 35mph with a 4m although that is mor of a survival sail at that point
My top speeds are about 21mph although that's bairing away into a gybe
I can sail a reach at upto 20mph but it takes maximum concentration and normally ends badly ??
Would I lose or gain any bottom end performance
And what would I gain at the top end
I have a warpspeed 65 that never comes out because although it's a bit faster you give up to much bottom end and gybe ability
Thanks for your input

Hi seanchor,

I think you'd certainly appreciate the improved performance of the PFI730 in those conditions. I'm the same weight and the local beach is renowned for choppy conditions. My 1st few sessions on the 730 were a real eye opener. As CoreAS said, the 730 just drives through the swell and chop, particularly when the wind gets up, this is when the i76 gets pitchy. It's so much more confidence inspiring so you can push harder. I love it.

The 730 is a bit quicker, but not massively. If you want quicker then you have to go a smaller wing like your 65 and it seems you know the trade off there.

I stayed with the aluminium mast - you can use your current hover glide mast with a base adapter - which allowed me to invest in the the new HA Phantasm wing - the PTM926, which I use for for lighter conditions. That thing is also a weapon and I love the glide and performance in lighter winds. I think this would be a game changer for you if you're foiling in the Thames, which I assume has fluky winds. Plenty of others on here 'frothing' on that wing.

I think you'd definitely appreciate the upgrade from i76 to PFI730.
The upgrade to Phantasm gear will create other problems though . tough decisions on carbons mast or a PTM926 wing . or both . Those are exciting decisions!

I agree regarding the PTM926 wing it has been completely under marketed for wind foiling (aimed towards winging) its an amazing foil for lighter winds and judging by Simons 360 videos it carves HARD for a wide HA wing.

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Here is my general take on upgrades in wind foiling toy. All good r/d in wind foiling done on race side only. For freeride and wave windfoiling you have to look at wing foil development, that's very money is spent and r&d is on fire. For us the only diff in usage is longer fusilage. Wingers walked away from low profile front wings for the most part a year plus ago and I76 and it's replacement are both very dated now, if wing span is not at least ~90 cm, the range, glide and ease of jibing is compromised unless wind and water state are relatively stable.

So for what has been posted. 730 is smoother flying (less oscillation), higher potential top speed, with the cf mast it drives upwind better, basically similar or better in getting up foiling and pumping through lulls vs. the i76. Also, lighter in weight. Might help improve rate of progression to becoming a better rider?

So if you break down foiling skill levels to: 1. Newbie, has the ability to more or less get up and foil for short distances. 2. Beginner, has the ability to foil for long distances with occasional controlled touch and goes. 3. Low intermediate, has the ability to foil consistently in flat water (less than 20cm of chop) hard upwind and deep downwind. Makes a very occasional foiling jibe. Developing comfort and skills to ride up and downwind in moderate swells (up to 1 M).
Would initial purchase or upgrading to the Phantasm kit be of any real significant benefit to anyone that is the above categories?

I'm not to sure they would I think it's about how deep your pockets are if you can afford it then go for it. I'm tempted to upgrade to the 730
Although the ptm 926 needs some Investigation
As well
Any advice on how the to compair
Would be interested to hear
Thanks

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seaanchor said..
I'm not to sure they would I think it's about how deep your pockets are if you can afford it then go for it. I'm tempted to upgrade to the 730
Although the ptm 926 needs some Investigation
As well
Any advice on how the to compair
Would be interested to hear
Thanks

If you want to upgrade to Phantasm and have just one front wing I would choose the PFI 730.
It has an amazing wind range of 10-30 knots. Also a carving machine.

The PTM 926 has a little better glide in low/marginal winds but I think you'd want a smaller wing for stronger winds

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OldGuy3 said..
So for what has been posted. 730 is smoother flying (less oscillation), higher potential top speed, with the cf mast it drives upwind better, basically similar or better in getting up foiling and pumping through lulls vs. the i76. Also, lighter in weight. Might help improve rate of progression to becoming a better rider?

So if you break down foiling skill levels to: 1. Newbie, has the ability to more or less get up and foil for short distances. 2. Beginner, has the ability to foil for long distances with occasional controlled touch and goes. 3. Low intermediate, has the ability to foil consistently in flat water (less than 20cm of chop) hard upwind and deep downwind. Makes a very occasional foiling jibe. Developing comfort and skills to ride up and downwind in moderate swells (up to 1 M).
Would initial purchase or upgrading to the Phantasm kit be of any real significant benefit to anyone that is the above categories?

You might not tell the difference on the water between Hoverglide and Phantasm with those skill levels but it's an awesome piece of kit and if you can afford it I'd get it anyway

After much debait I have decided to go for the fantasam 730 with the 103 carbon mast.
Do you guys think I will lose anything on the light wind performance compared to the i76?

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seaanchor said..
After much debait I have decided to go for the fantasam 730 with the 103 carbon mast.
Do you guys think I will lose anything on the light wind performance compared to the i76?

Exciting! The decision has been made.

Please provide us with your feedback after you try out the new gear.

Ps. I have the old 90cm HG (alu) mast and adapter and the new 103 mast (alu) that I use for different conditions/needs. The 103 for waves/swell riding. The 93 for flatter conditions and winging.

The 103 is better in waves but a PITA if you don't need the extra length as you need to wade out to chest high before getting on the board and the chances of slamming it into the bottom and damaging the foil are greater.

If you're predominantly riding in the Thames Estuary think long and hard about the benefit of the 103 over the 92 mast for your riding spot and conditions.

If the PTM 926 is for lighter winds then the PTM 1001 should work well for medium to high winds? Anyone try it? I've got one and I'm hoping to try it soon but first I've got to check and make sure where I foil is ice free.

Ok I've just tried to put some Phantasm foils (new Phantasm masts, infinity masts and new Phantasm fuses and new adaptor) together and I had some issues. Maybe, someone here has a solution for my "adaptor" problem. I posted this in the comments section following Slingshot's Phantasm foil video on Youtube:

"Here are some issues I've had with the Phantasm system. My 82 aluminium mast fits the new fuse no problem but not the 92 carbon mast. I had to file the front part that fits into the fuse some to get it to work -- not a big deal but you want to make sure everything fits before you go to the beach or you will potentially be frustrated if you have issues. I also have the adaptor that fits into the slot in the new fuse so you can attach it to the old infinity mast. Well, the holes in my adaptor don't line up with the holes in the fuse. I flipped the adaptor around and put it back into the fuse. -- no go! The holes don't line up either way so unless I'm totally out to lunch, which is a possibility, this adaptor is useless to me. I may be wrong but I suspect whoever makes these adaptors for Slingshot screwed up and Slingshot has had them make the correction, however, Slingshot, rather than pulling this product, just sent out the originals to unsuspecting retailers and their customers. I hope I'm wrong but it's possible."

There may be a simple solution that I'm missing and, if so, I owe Slingshot an apology.

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dejavu said..
If the PTM 926 is for lighter winds then the PTM 1001 should work well for medium to high winds? Anyone try it? I've got one and I'm hoping to try it soon but first I've got to check and make sure where I foil is ice free.

I use the PTM926 in 10-15 mph with good pumping technique you could get it going in lighter breezes as well.

The PTM1001 are scarce still so not much info on them!... from my understanding they were developed with dock start pumping and prone (surf) foiling in mind? I have seen some Japanese wing foilers use the PTM1001 in pics.

I haven't seen any media on the PTM1001 for it on wind foiling so you would be the first if you can test it?

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dejavu said..
Ok I've just tried to put some Phantasm foils (new Phantasm masts, infinity masts and new Phantasm fuses and new adaptor) together and I had some issues. Maybe, someone here has a solution for my "adaptor" problem. I posted this in the comments section following Slingshot's Phantasm foil video on Youtube:

"Here are some issues I've had with the Phantasm system. My 82 aluminium mast fits the new fuse no problem but not the 92 carbon mast. I had to file the front part that fits into the fuse some to get it to work -- not a big deal but you want to make sure everything fits before you go to the beach or you will potentially be frustrated if you have issues. I also have the adaptor that fits into the slot in the new fuse so you can attach it to the old infinity mast. Well, the holes in my adaptor don't line up with the holes in the fuse. I flipped the adaptor around and put it back into the fuse. -- no go! The holes don't line up either way so unless I'm totally out to lunch, which is a possibility, this adaptor is useless to me. I may be wrong but I suspect whoever makes these adaptors for Slingshot screwed up and Slingshot has had them make the correction, however, Slingshot, rather than pulling this product, just sent out the originals to unsuspecting retailers and their customers. I hope I'm wrong but it's possible."

There may be a simple solution that I'm missing and, if so, I owe Slingshot an apology.

The adapter needs to be bolted on the bottom of your old hoverglid mast then inserted in your new fuse and bolted again (sorry if I just stated the obvious)?