How good is this wind foiling thing ? Is it just a fad, is it just a way of shops selling us new kit or is it really worth me stumping up some dosh to get me on the water more on the days I want sail but not windy enough can you really foil in light winds.

The way I look at it is if I am not wavesailing and just blasting around on flat water ocean lake river ect. I just want to be on the foil.I don't jump,loop or freestyle anymore to old and have metal parts. !0-30 knts.on the foil is flat out fun smaller board,sail plus its ultra quiet and smooth.My suggestion is to grab a go on someones gear or demo after that first little flight you might be hooked!

For bigger riders, windfoiling is a godsend.
Smaller riders find less early planing advantage, but it's still worth around 1.5 meters of sail size.
Slower in reaching top speeds but much higher and lower angles.

See the thread "anyone on here only foiling now" see all those hooked on foiling.

I would say anyone considering their first foil purchase should ask around, get plenty of advice. There are still some average and dated foils still sold new in the shops. For example, I learnt on the pink NP alloy, and had many great sessions on it but probably kept it too long before upgrading. Nowadays there are better first foil options.

Ultimately you need a foil, and a foil board, so it is more dollars than windsurfing, but worth it!

yes, it is really that good. it has become what windsurfing always promised to be. you will not regret it.

What are good starter foils ? Preferably one that I won't outgrow and can keep as allrounder going forward ?

Im 80 kg experienced sailor but like past the 50 mark - so what size foil

coupke of naish boards available on Seabreeze also that look good value as whole package

A board with tracks is very useful.
A Foil that has options for different wings and different mount types.

Being the Zeeko importer I'm describing our gear of course

If you like learning new things, you may just love it. If you hate learning new things or falling, forget about it.

I'm at ~ 15 sessions now, and currently in the state where I hope it does not get so windy that I have to ditch for foil for a windsurfer. The "get out in less wind" thing does not yet work for me - that requires more experience or skills or pumping efforts, or all of the above. But I can go out on a 5.0 when I usually would be on a 6.5. For me, the fun is in learning something completely new, and the cool feeling of flying, even if just for a few hundred meters at a time.

I was quite skeptical for a while. The "more days" thing will never be a thing for me, since I often go out in 6-8 knots to do light wind freestyle, or in a tad more on a longboard. But I had the chance to try foiling a bunch of times before buying, and eventually bought my own.

LeeD has a valid point about body weight. If you're an efficient light wind sailor who can plane in 11-12 knots, the possible "lower wind gains" from foiling will be small (unless you're willing to use large sails and put a lot of effort in). But if you're a regular size or heavier guy at a spot with a lot of marginal days, you may find the lighter days much more enjoyable. And you may end up windsurfing less and less over time, and foiling in higher and higher winds. You've been warned :-).

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boardsurfr said..

LeeD has a valid point about body weight. If you're an efficient light wind sailor who can plane in 11-12 knots, the possible "lower wind gains" from foiling will be small (unless you're willing to use large sails and put a lot of effort in). But if you're a regular size or heavier guy at a spot with a lot of marginal days, you may find the lighter days much more enjoyable. And you may end up windsurfing less and less over time, and foiling in higher and higher winds. You've been warned :-).

Being one of those "efficient light wind sailor who can plane in 11-12 knots" (I always kept an old Formula board and 9.5 in the car), I'm now a guy who flies in 7-10 (probably takes 9-10 to get off the water) with 2 m less sail. Since I live in a wind deprived place, this is a godsend. But that's not enough for a lot of people to consider trying it.

Here's what might be: these things rip both up and down wind in ways normal boards don't. The average rec sailor thinks about a stripe across the wind and spends all day mowing that patch of lawn. Instead, as a foiler, I can think of a box as my playground. I'm not mowing a 1km stripe but heading up and down in at least a 1 km box or more. The guys here who are riding ocean swells are doing the same thing - going way upwind to ride the swells back down. It changes completely the dimensions of your playground. How much fun is something that goes upwind/downwind like a Formula or longboard yet foot steers like a 100l freeride?

And, the adrenaline rush of trying something new: just about everyone who gives it a go describes that thrill of seeing a white cap just as they did starting out. A lot of us doing it are older dogs so it's fun to relive that part of windsurfing we remember fondly.

Nerdycross,

I have been thinking about this foiling thing too for a while. There are a fair amount of light wind days where I sail, especially this year. I could be out foiling on these days, rather than waiting for more wind or out schlogging. So I did it! I purchased a dedicated foil board. Gathering all the gear needed, as it goes on sale, as it's pricey!! So I will learn to foil next season. Personally at this point, I'm looking at foiling as a light wind substitute. I still love being on my short board, ripping in n out of the water and jumping, but just too many days of waiting for enough wind on my short board. Foiling will open up many more days to sail. Plus, it looks appealing flying above the water, don't ya think? The idea of this is growing on me, and I haven't even tried it yet. I used to think wind foiling looked kind of stupid at first, but now I'm seeing the reasons people are getting into wind foiling, and by reading more about it, I have a better understanding about it.

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Paducah said..

boardsurfr said..

LeeD has a valid point about body weight. If you're an efficient light wind sailor who can plane in 11-12 knots, the possible "lower wind gains" from foiling will be small (unless you're willing to use large sails and put a lot of effort in). But if you're a regular size or heavier guy at a spot with a lot of marginal days, you may find the lighter days much more enjoyable. And you may end up windsurfing less and less over time, and foiling in higher and higher winds. You've been warned :-).

Being one of those "efficient light wind sailor who can plane in 11-12 knots" (I always kept an old Formula board and 9.5 in the car), I'm now a guy who flies in 7-10 (probably takes 9-10 to get off the water) with 2 m less sail. Since I live in a wind deprived place, this is a godsend. But that's not enough for a lot of people to consider trying it.

Here's what might be: these things rip both up and down wind in ways normal boards don't. The average rec sailor thinks about a stripe across the wind and spends all day mowing that patch of lawn. Instead, as a foiler, I can think of a box as my playground. I'm not mowing a 1km stripe but heading up and down in at least a 1 km box or more. The guys here who are riding ocean swells are doing the same thing - going way upwind to ride the swells back down. It changes completely the dimensions of your playground. How much fun is something that goes upwind/downwind like a Formula or longboard yet foot steers like a 100l freeride?

And, the adrenaline rush of trying something new: just about everyone who gives it a go describes that thrill of seeing a white cap just as they did starting out. A lot of us doing it are older dogs so it's fun to relive that part of windsurfing we remember fondly.

A great description of how to look at our strip. The swell riders tracks (on GPSTC) are nuts! See JJ tracks from Pinnaroos in WA

I'm so convinced and now have a JP 135 on it's way now just need decide what foil to buy so I'm 82kilo long time windsurfing and have slalom and wave boards for windy day's. I just want get out on those light wind day's as magic ride said. My short list is 2018 NP flight ali (good deal on this one ) or 2019 NP flight ali or slingshot 76 (expensive) and last on my short list is Naish foil.
HELP !

2018 is the pinky? I learned with this and jp 135 in egypt and got it in three days. Lot of fun and quick progress. 7.0 hellcat was nice in light wind and no waves. It is a good beginner foil.
Now i own the starboard gtr and race wich are much better in reaching and downwind and much more stable.

Consider NP Glide instead of Flights.
Been foiling 26 days. Up and downwinding close to Formula angles with rec foils is a big appeal.
A race foil matches or slightly exceeds formula angles with around 2.5 meter smaller sails.
Lots and lots of small to minute adjustments compared to windsurfing.
More pressure on ankles and knees.
Opens up breezes of 6-13 for fun, glide, and stoke.
Definetely tests balance over power.
Some people love it, some hate it.

Yes its good. Very good.
Ive been windsurfing for 31 years and kitesurfing for 18 years. Ive loved them both and Kitesurfing sort of took over from Windsurfing due to being able to try almost anything on a kite as opposed to always waiting for the perfect days on a windsurf.
I started Foiling last year and i haven't kitesurfer since and i went windsurfing 2 days ago and really didn't like it. Trying to gybe in choppy water, hunting for ramps, constantly looking for gusts and energy draining. Next day, foiling on 4.0 sail, floating over the chop, trying jumps and endless gybes and only coming in because the tide went out.

I am 110 kgs and my biggest sail is a 6.4m and if i can't get going on that I doubt i could even Kite on a 12m.
Ive now used a 3.5m with a smaller foil in 30-35mph and it was great fun. Sporting but fun.
Ive been out more this year than windsurfing and kitesurfing combined over the last 3 years.

I would say that its a great light wind alternative that will get you out on the water much moire than before and its a buzz to get the stages.

A good foil can be bought for about the same a as a decent 7.5, sail and if you have the board already then you are set.

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Heliboy999 said..
Yes its good. Very good.
Ive been windsurfing for 31 years and kitesurfing for 18 years. Ive loved them both and Kitesurfing sort of took over from Windsurfing due to being able to try almost anything on a kite as opposed to always waiting for the perfect days on a windsurf.
I started Foiling last year and i haven't kitesurfer since and i went windsurfing 2 days ago and really didn't like it. Trying to gybe in choppy water, hunting for ramps, constantly looking for gusts and energy draining. Next day, foiling on 4.0 sail, floating over the chop, trying jumps and endless gybes and only coming in because the tide went out.

I am 110 kgs and my biggest sail is a 6.4m and if i can't get going on that I doubt i could even Kite on a 12m.
Ive now used a 3.5m with a smaller foil in 30-35mph and it was great fun. Sporting but fun.
Ive been out more this year than windsurfing and kitesurfing combined over the last 3 years.

I would say that its a great light wind alternative that will get you out on the water much moire than before and its a buzz to get the stages.

A good foil can be bought for about the same a as a decent 7.5, sail and if you have the board already then you are set.

I am now definitely sold on wind foiling Helliboy all your saying is music to my ears Evan though I'm 64 + I am super activite the idea of something new is deffo for me .

26 days on Naishfoil.
Depending on what kind of gear you own, not fully convinced on major lightwind advantages.
160 lbs., have 2 Formula boards and one 13lbs. Isonic 111 and sails up to 8.3.
And a dedicated windsurf van.
Naish foil and 6.0 still seems to need a gust of 13 to get up, afterwhich a sustained 6-8 is needed to maintain flight.
Formula with 62 fin and 7.7 needs about 14 gusts, and 10 sustained breezes to keep planing.
Isonic 111 with 7.4 needs 15 gusts and maybe 11 to keep planing.
Formula with Naishfoil, with 6.7, needs 17 to get up and stays up around 10.
And I have not tried my F 167 with foil.
I rig next to 6 guys racing Cal Cup with Z, Starboard, and F4 foils.
They still need gusts of at least 12 to get on foil, 152lbs riders., with 7.0 sails.

A lot of super grandmasters here
Im 62 as well
43 years windsurfing

Who else can afford the cost and have the time?

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LeeD said..
Who else can afford the cost and have the time?

I'm lucky enough in my job position to work 3, 12s /week, Thurs, Sat and Sun. Leaves 4 days to go windsurfing. Many times, I'll go windsurfing after work on Thurs and Sunday if I'm not too tired, so that leaves me 6 days/week to windsurf. This last week, I sailed 5 days in a row.

I'm over day 80 since March. Mostly sub 5,5 and under 100 liter boards, plus 20 foiling days.

It's good.

The SS 76 is an excellent all round foil, but I have only tried slingshot foils

If not enough wind to go windsurfing I'll go emtb or on my analogue Mtb or sea kayak so don't have time to work. I think it be good tho to be able get on water in light wind on foil too.

With all due respect to NP (they were early leaders with the np flight pinkies) id probably skip the 2018 flight. The 2019 ones they redesigned the wings so that might be worth a look if its not too much more.

Of what you mentioned id be looking at the slingshot or the naish. they'll give you a lot more lift and ability to tune for stable flight. I know the slingshot is the expensive one on your list but it'll make things a lot easier and enjoyable while your learning.

i started on the pink np flight, their saving grace is cheaper price, but stable flight and lightwind liftoff is harder to master on them than other foils.

When I started I had Naish WS set up and added a Naish XL surf wing to the set up which really got me out in the lighter winds.
The WS needed as much wind as a windsurf to get me up, 15-20 knots on 6.0m. The XL made a big difference bringing it down to 12-15 knots.
Ive gone over to the Slingshot Infinity 84 and Naish lift sails. I'm up and flying in 10 knots on 6.4m sail.
My last session was 5.0 sail on 84 wing in a 150m wide channel. Think I tried over 100 gybes in 15-18knots wind.

The emphasis last season was on racing and super big kit with racing foils and this year there is so much more decent kit that is made for free riding and light wind slow foiling. Almost all the brands have nice big easy foils that work really well. The SS 84 transformed my foiling overnight. Foilers now outnumber the windsurfers on almost all days at my local spots. There are even foilers out in 30mph days because the chop is horrible for windsurfing. The buzz on the beach is great with everyone talking and having fun just like the old days of early windsurfing. Many more seniors are getting into it because its so much easier on your body. We have a 71, 73 and a 76 year old foiling this year. Our most senior had a 84 wing on a tiny mast (15 inch) with his normal size sail on and just went out windsurfing. He was planing around with the very occasional flight but what he loved was that he was feeling less pull in the sail and easy planing. He was out longer than he can normally sail.

I'm so over huge sails and big boards. Too much strain on my old and worn body. Foiling has changed everything. Riding on pillows over the chop, with less strain is the future for me.

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nerdycross said..
If not enough wind to go windsurfing I'll go emtb or on my analogue Mtb or sea kayak so don't have time to work. I think it be good tho to be able get on water in light wind on foil too.

My cycling has dropped way off since I started my foiling. My bikes are threatening to break up with me.

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Heliboy999 said..
When I started I had Naish WS set up and added a Naish XL surf wing to the set up which really got me out in the lighter winds.
The WS needed as much wind as a windsurf to get me up, 15-20 knots on 6.0m. The XL made a big difference bringing it down to 12-15 knots.
Ive gone over to the Slingshot Infinity 84 and Naish lift sails. I'm up and flying in 10 knots on 6.4m sail.
My last session was 5.0 sail on 84 wing in a 150m wide channel. Think I tried over 100 gybes in 15-18knots wind.

The emphasis last season was on racing and super big kit with racing foils and this year there is so much more decent kit that is made for free riding and light wind slow foiling. Almost all the brands have nice big easy foils that work really well. The SS 84 transformed my foiling overnight. Foilers now outnumber the windsurfers on almost all days at my local spots. There are even foilers out in 30mph days because the chop is horrible for windsurfing. The buzz on the beach is great with everyone talking and having fun just like the old days of early windsurfing. Many more seniors are getting into it because its so much easier on your body. We have a 71, 73 and a 76 year old foiling this year. Our most senior had a 84 wing on a tiny mast (15 inch) with his normal size sail on and just went out windsurfing. He was planing around with the very occasional flight but what he loved was that he was feeling less pull in the sail and easy planing. He was out longer than he can normally sail.

It sounds like your experience with the slingshot mabe the foil to go for with my JP 135 I'm buying I'm definitely looking for the fun factor in light winds and not to drag big kit out on water.

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nerdycross said..

Heliboy999 said..
When I started I had Naish WS set up and added a Naish XL surf wing to the set up which really got me out in the lighter winds.
The WS needed as much wind as a windsurf to get me up, 15-20 knots on 6.0m. The XL made a big difference bringing it down to 12-15 knots.
Ive gone over to the Slingshot Infinity 84 and Naish lift sails. I'm up and flying in 10 knots on 6.4m sail.
My last session was 5.0 sail on 84 wing in a 150m wide channel. Think I tried over 100 gybes in 15-18knots wind.

The emphasis last season was on racing and super big kit with racing foils and this year there is so much more decent kit that is made for free riding and light wind slow foiling. Almost all the brands have nice big easy foils that work really well. The SS 84 transformed my foiling overnight. Foilers now outnumber the windsurfers on almost all days at my local spots. There are even foilers out in 30mph days because the chop is horrible for windsurfing. The buzz on the beach is great with everyone talking and having fun just like the old days of early windsurfing. Many more seniors are getting into it because its so much easier on your body. We have a 71, 73 and a 76 year old foiling this year. Our most senior had a 84 wing on a tiny mast (15 inch) with his normal size sail on and just went out windsurfing. He was planing around with the very occasional flight but what he loved was that he was feeling less pull in the sail and easy planing. He was out longer than he can normally sail.

It sounds like your experience with the slingshot mabe the foil to go for with my JP 135 I'm buying I'm definitely looking for the fun factor in light winds and not to drag big kit out on water.

It worked for me.
My road to enlightenment was long and frustrating at times. I wish it had been out last year but alas it wasn't.. I went for the biggest wing I could find at the time (was along the right line of thinking) but it wasn't big enough or a good design for me. I tried other gear and noticed a huge difference and then tried more gear and found what worked.

I would take the opportunity to try different gear if possible if not then go for the biggest wing you can get and learn on that. You can add smaller wings as you get better.

Foils I would consider are

Slingshot Infinity 76 and 84
Ride Engine Manta 76 and 84 ( they are the same as SS only different colours)
Neil Pryde Glide Medium and Large.

This based on personal experience and also seeing others progression whilst using those set ups.

I don't think its a fad anymore than windsurfing is a fad... oh wait...

I'm in this for the long haul. Foiling is really fun, challenging (at first) and you can do it in lighter wind (I'm out zipping around while other windsurfers are looking on).

Try it out!

I agree with Heliboy, seems like the Slingshot infinity series are the foils are choice around here. I have a Starboard setup and love the modular aspect to their line. I also think they are the best designed foils on the market.

I've always been a wave sailor....and always will be. As long as I can Shlog out and turn around and catch some waves...I'm a happy camper. And I love high wind windsurfing....nothing compares. But where I was just not feeling it anymore was rigging up a 6.8 to get planing on summer sea breezes on a larger Freeride board. Don't get me wrong, I still love the pedal to the metal feeling, but the borderline planing with a big fin, big sail and pumping my arse off. Nope !!!
6 months ago I jumped into foiling. It is a game changer. Now I rig a 5.3, I'm riding the JP' 7 Foil Sup board and my go to foil is the Naish XXL. I can get up easily in 11-12 knots. Yes...the whole ride is slower than regular windsurfing and slower than guys on bigger sails and smaller foils, but easily jumping up on foil in 11-12 knots. Come On ! Never dreamed that!!! I stand over the foil SUP style and start looking for anything that looks like a bump to glide on.

Two weeks ago there was some strong SW's, 15-22 kts, as if that's really strong, right? I rigged a flat 4.5, took out the XXL and found some non-breaking swells 3-4 feet in the ship channel and proceeding to get the longest downwind glides of my life. 4-500 meters will little to almost no sail input (sometimes holding the mast with just one hand) that moment changed my perspective forever. On top of it...didn't have to take 1000 SUP stroke back up to where I started. Two tacks relaxed in the harness lines and off we go again. Ok, it's not side-off wave sailing a perfect point break but damn.....it's still so good.

If your a surfer, the idea of looking out at chop and micro swell and now being able to say "I can surf that" is priceless.