Pantasm and Go Foil owners, can you measure for us please?

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Swindy said..

Maddlad said..

Swindy said..

Jules67 said..
Swindy, thanks for the testing and information, very interesting.

I presume they would be related but twist is another important aspect of the mast. I use the Starboard 95cm mast (original, not IQ) and if you grab both end of the fuse and twist you get more movement than I was expecting. When I am sailing more broad reach/downwind, I notice that I get some interesting feedback from the foil, particularly going over chop or through obvious currents, which I believe could be partly due to the foil torque-twisting. No proof to back this up though. Would love to try the new IQ for comparison if I had a spare $5k

In regards to the thread title, I'll leave it to others to make the Benny Hill jokes...

I would assume that twist would also be related to stiffness. Certainly seems that way if I twist my foils manually.
Since using the stiffer masts I am finding the feedback you get through the feet from the foil is far more positive and actions and reactions are far less aggressive. With a bendy mast you are sometimes left wondering "what the f**k happened there".
Even though I'm not that fast it's definitely giving me the confidence to push a bit harder and my top speed of the day not being followed by a big crash.
You guys over east are getting pretty fast. Good to see, keep it up.
No pun intended.

You looked pretty quick and in control when we saw you at Rock Vegas the other day Rog. :)

Thanks for the kind words Matt. It was great to have six of us out there on Saturday enjoying the fantastic conditions. It's usually just me and a few pelicans.
Compared to the 3 local fast guys I don't feel I'm that fast. Getting the stiff mast recently was, I feel, the final part of the jigsaw to maximising my speed. I doubt at my age I will ever match them but I would like to think I can bridge the gap a little.

Its an amazing spot to foil mate. Im hoping we can get down there again this weekend. :)
Thats really interesting that you say the stiff mast made you feel better at speed. Thats something ive been wondering about coz i struggle downwind on my mast which is the original race mast. I was wondering whether it was worth the cost for the stiffer starboard mast but it sounds like it might be. My current mast bends all over the place which is not fun at speed.

Rock Vegas on Sat then Maddy?

Keen as mate.

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Maddlad said..
Keen as mate.

I'll be there

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seanhogan said..
I remember reading a review by Tiesda You mentionning the alloy mast was stiffer (with double reinforcements inside and an angled profile) than the carbon mast, but of course being wider and thicker it was slower.

Cheers Sean, you answered my question,
Starboard alloy is stiffer than cheapest carbon option but still behind on overall performance

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Freeflight said..

seanhogan said..
I remember reading a review by Tiesda You mentionning the alloy mast was stiffer (with double reinforcements inside and an angled profile) than the carbon mast, but of course being wider and thicker it was slower.

Cheers Sean, you answered my question,
Starboard alloy is stiffer than cheapest carbon option but still behind on overall performance

I received my iQFoil mast. It feels as heavy as the alu. I don't have a digital scale but I'll figure out how to weigh them. The carbon one is thicker. You can see the mast head is thicker than the alu mast but in the carbon one the mast is thicker than the head.
my preliminary test is that the carbon bends as much as the aluminum. I need to get a 40/50 kg block to measure again. my 5 yo son was trying really hard to stand still in while measuring with a caliper but that is not accurate:)

of course, all this measurements are static. Performance wise I have only heard that the carbon one is much better. Am I saying that to convince myself I didn't waste 1400 usd?
We shall see.

Update: I used a bucket full of bricks weighing 50 pounds. placed it in the center of the masts

carbon mast deflected 3.9 mm and the alu mast 3.8 mm. This is the Aluminum iQFoil mast v carbon iQFoil mast (also called c400).

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WillyWind said..
Update: I used a bucket full of bricks weighing 50 pounds. placed it in the center of the masts

carbon mast deflected 3.9 mm and the alu mast 3.8 mm. This is the Aluminum iQFoil mast v carbon iQFoil mast (also called c400).

Great update, thanks for doing that

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WillyWind said..
Update: I used a bucket full of bricks weighing 50 pounds. placed it in the center of the masts

carbon mast deflected 3.9 mm and the alu mast 3.8 mm. This is the Aluminum iQFoil mast v carbon iQFoil mast (also called c400).

Sounds about right. The flex is a bit worse on the IQ foil, but the torsion is much better. Here are some numbers on flex/torsion/young for the 2018 GT alu mast and 2021 IQ foil. The higher the number the better.

Alu: Flex 1106.8 Nm2, Torsion 1053.3 Nm2/Rad, Young 31.7 Gpa
IQ: Flex 1099.2 Nm2, Torsion 1388.3 Nm2/Rad, Young 29.3 Gpa

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WillyWind said..

. Am I saying that to convince myself I didn't waste 1400 usd?
We shall see.

You'll be faster !!!!

I have Naish and Axis foils. Have the Naish C35 mast of 75cm. When I assemble it with the Jetfoil 2000, I think there's a noticeable amount of flex when you have the board upside down and you press the foil tip towards the ground. I reckon it's because the joins at the foil to the fuse and the fuse to the mast are on the smallish side.
Compared to my axis gear, the Naish feels "floppier". The Axis gear has comparatively much more robust joins and there's almost no flex when I press on the tip of the foil. It's all aluminium too.
So I think carbon is one thing, but design is also as important.

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martyj4 said..
I have Naish and Axis foils. Have the Naish C35 mast of 75cm. When I assemble it with the Jetfoil 2000, I think there's a noticeable amount of flex when you have the board upside down and you press the foil tip towards the ground. I reckon it's because the joins at the foil to the fuse and the fuse to the mast are on the smallish side.
Compared to my axis gear, the Naish feels "floppier". The Axis gear has comparatively much more robust joins and there's almost no flex when I press on the tip of the foil. It's all aluminium too.
So I think carbon is one thing, but design is also as important.

The C35 is a composite mast, not full carbon. Naish do a full carbon mast but it is twice the cost. I have tested the C35 against other masts, and although not the stiffest it was quite adequate, the Phantasm won that spot of the masts I tested.
I heard that the next offerings from Naish will have a redesigned mast fuselage connection.

I suspect lighter foilers using smaller foils find the current gear just fine.
However, bigger and more aggressive foilers will find real benefits in stiffer masts and foils.

New update: I checked the torsion of the iQFoil carbon and iQFoil aluminum masts and the carbon one is much stiffer. Now the real test will be when foiling. Patiently waiting for some wind.

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LeeD said..
I suspect lighter foilers using smaller foils find the current gear just fine.
However, bigger and more aggressive foilers will find real benefits in stiffer masts and foils.

Lighter foiler (62kg) here. The base carbon Starboard mast works but even I can feel the wiggle. I'm not going fast enough for it to matter but it's there.

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Paducah said..

LeeD said..
I suspect lighter foilers using smaller foils find the current gear just fine.
However, bigger and more aggressive foilers will find real benefits in stiffer masts and foils.

Lighter foiler (62kg) here. The base carbon Starboard mast works but even I can feel the wiggle. I'm not going fast enough for it to matter but it's there.

I'm 85-88kg and I can feel the IQFoil carbon mast flex when I'm heeled over reaching or pushing upwind. Sometimes it's hard to tell if there's aeration or just mast wiggle going on.

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Paducah said..

LeeD said..
I suspect lighter foilers using smaller foils find the current gear just fine.
However, bigger and more aggressive foilers will find real benefits in stiffer masts and foils.

Lighter foiler (62kg) here. The base carbon Starboard mast works but even I can feel the wiggle. I'm not going fast enough for it to matter but it's there.

Yep, i have the original starboard carbon race mast and it flexes a lot for me and im only 73 kgs.

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WillyWind said..
Update: I used a bucket full of bricks weighing 50 pounds. placed it in the center of the masts

carbon mast deflected 3.9 mm and the alu mast 3.8 mm. This is the Aluminum iQFoil mast v carbon iQFoil mast (also called c400).

Another update. I went out on flukey wind with 76 cm wide freerace foilboard, 6 m sail, and 800 wing.
the mast feels much stiffer. I didn't feel the flutter that was very common in the alu mast. Flight feel more stable. I don't know if I will be able to sail faster, but it gives much more confidence.
so, numbers are good but but the pissing contest is over when the masts are in action