Hi All, some advice please in regards to boards/foils

Experienced Windsurfer looking at starting Wind foiling, 75 kg, wave free ride sails from 4.5 to 7.3

Noticed a Naish special, 2018 Hover 122 with Thrust WS1 foil for a very good price, what do people think about this board and foil for learning? Easy to sail with good wind range?

Or 2020 Slingshot Wizard 125 tuttle box with Hoverglide V3 76cm wing, more money but perhaps better? Worried that short nose may dig in a bit but greater wind range of foil?

Happy for other suggestions if neither of these any good.

Still using 122 after 3 seasons. Good SUP and very good wave surfing SUP also.
Wiz is also good, more windfoil specialized.
I76 better for heavier riders, but good for lightest breeze at our weight. 1500.
1220 is the size most guys our size use for 11-25 knot winds.
Both good Q, Naish a bit more refined, needing less maintainance, tighter fitting parts.
Both still good for 100 days on the water.
Both will need upgrades after 2ns season.

I started with the same Naish setup last year, saw the price and jumped in, I went the 122 and it was plenty big enough for my 85(ish) kg.

I still use the board but at some point would like to go for something shorter and wider, from the vids I've seen of the WA Slingshot guys it looks like that would match my style a bit better.

The WS1 will get you up and running and is a safe option but you'll probably end up spending some $$ within a year to upgrade a few bits and pieces. My upgrades have been to a 95cm mast, 1150 & 320 front wing and stabiliser and also the 80cm windfoil fuse.

The longer mast is the go in swell and bigger chop, less breaching. The longer fuse steadies out the ride so not so much porpoising. The upgraded wings give a bit more top end speed, about 2-3knts, more glide but mostly I've found them more controllable when the wind picks up.

If you're happy not to have the latest and greatest you can pick up a lot of these bits and pieces second hand/prior years models without damaging your wallet too much.

Good luck

To explain...."upgrades"...
As you get comfortable foiling in 11-25 knots, you learn what conditions are best for your specific area.
Waterdepth/mast length. Wind strength/foil size.
Slog distance to windline/volume of board. Need for lightweight/pocketbook and carry distance.
And what fellow wind, wing, windsurfers are doing next to you.
Some locales have a solid racing scene, so gear, advice, and practice partners are available locally.
Others are windsurfer dominated, so a faster foil is sometimes preferred.
Other spots tend to really light breeze, bigger foils get going sooner but can be harder to foil in higher wind..75 kg rider.
Both will crossover to wingfoiling.

Most SS riders, after a good season, look at alternate wings first...i99 for big guys, 68 or smaller for lighter riders. Upping mast length if water depth is always there, downsizing mast to account for low tides and shallow waters.
Carbon masts for high end.
Robbie himself, a bit lighter in weight, says he still prefers 122 for easier takeoffs. He's expert, but is not looking to progress much beyond foilng jibes, a few jumps, and foiling tacks.
Where I foil, there is a long, 200 yard slog in sub 5 k ot breeze to reach the windline, so 122 is fine.

Thanks guys. I will be mainly using for light wind, eg 12 to 20, after this I will probably just windsurf.

So not really worth while to spend a bit more money now on later stuff, just go with the Naish package and upgrade as needed?

Lee - did you use the Hover 122 windfall board as a SUP or the crossover 120?

And Naish slightly better quality? I have some issues with Naish stuff in the past.

122 Hover for windfoil and surf SUP. It surfs OK, in tiny surf too. Tail rocker and thinner rails.
Naish quality in the hardware fit and actual parts.
Almost everyone on SS changes out hardware after 40 days, and maintainance is close to double compared to Naish. Maintainance means taking apart, cleaning, relubbing, tef tape, and assembly after 10 usage days....on SS.
Still, both are good.

The wizard will probably have a better low end than the naish. Wide arse boards tend to get on foil easier. But tracks are a bit more desirable than tuttle.

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hovoor said..
Hi All, some advice please in regards to boards/foils

Experienced Windsurfer looking at starting Wind foiling, 75 kg, wave free ride sails from 4.5 to 7.3

Noticed a Naish special, 2018 Hover 122 with Thrust WS1 foil for a very good price, what do people think about this board and foil for learning? Easy to sail with good wind range?

Or 2020 Slingshot Wizard 125 tuttle box with Hoverglide V3 76cm wing, more money but perhaps better? Worried that short nose may dig in a bit but greater wind range of foil?

Happy for other suggestions if neither of these any good.

I've had both the Naish Thrust WS1 and Slingshot Hoverglide V3 76cm wings.
The Slingshot Infinity 76 is a more refined wing than the WS1. It has 2 "levels" - excellent stability for beginners with great lift in light wind and is an amazing fast and carvey wing in stronger winds when you have enough TOW with it and learn how to control and enjoy the lift

The W125 is a perfect learner to intermediate board - around 30 windfoilers over here in Perth have learnt on it.

I think of those 2 options I'd be spending a bit more on the slingshot setup, will be better all around. Just be aware that the foil is fairly high maintenance, but potentially not a huge issue at your weight, I'd suggest $1600ish for a used setup would be about what you would want to pay for that. A very good price for that Naish setup would want to be <$1000k.

There are a few options out there if you mix/match, I'd say look for something 2020 onwards, as most gear is pretty sorted from there on. Some of the 2018/19 stuff was pretty crap from todays standard, i.e. Naish WS1 and Fanatic H9 foils. Also just be aware, the Naish stuff has a slightly different front wing to mast distance, and foil track to footstrap setup, so they are a little fiddly to get working with other brands. Most of the other stuff, Starboard, Fanatic, Slingshot, Severne, JP/NP is pretty well interchangeable. Ideally try and pick something that guys local to you are using, as its much easier to get tuning advice.

There is a Fanatic 140HRS + Flow1250 foil on buy/sell which would be well suited, if you are primarily looking to use your larger sails. The board would probably start to feel a bit big if you want to do some more strong wind foiling with smaller sails. Depends on if you want to be a bit more free-race or free-ride.

Interesting....
About 180 days in foiling.
Have 600 and 1150 foils. Still use original WS-1 from time to time, still works great.
Have used i76, 68, RRD 850, 1550, Moses 790.

The other option is to spend a little more money and get an all carbon foil, no matinence issues, no aluminum fatigue and corrosion. I have had my AFS W95 foil for 3 years now, started with F1080 cm2 wing (now only use for 8-10 knots), then F770 for 11+ knots when the white caps start to fill in, and getting a F700S wing (now S670 cm2) for solid white caps and speed. Wndsurfers fully powered up are faster than me with the F770 wing, hoping the S670 will close the gap. Slow wings are boring IMO. I will have this foil for another 3 years at least, with no maintience, solid built foil designed to last. The new AFS solid carbon 85 cm foil and F-series wings are actually resonable, without VAT, around $1400 US for foil with 1 wing and stabilizer and foil case with wing/stab. covers, direct from the AFS website. Make a little more investment now and enjoy it for years to come with no problems. And it is a work of carbon art that I enjoy putting on my board everytime.

Of those two get the Slingshot, I say that as someone who very much isn't a Slingshot fan.

If choosing between the two, then the Slingshot combo

Having no experience with Naish equipment, I did learn to foil on the i76 and i99 gear. It would have been a little easier on a board like a slingshot foil board than my hybrid foil/fin board.

I still have it for winging and occasional freeride foiling even though I mostly use my race foil gear. Don't have the urge to sell if that tells you anything. I've replaced some of the bolts due to damage (latest one was hitting the beach during a jibe on the i99, which loosened things a bit).

Good thing about hoverglide is that it is still fully supported and new wings continue to come out (maybe the same for the naish foil but not sure). It is also highly modular for dabbling in different sports.

Other option would be to go for the cheapest option to get your foil addiction started and then upgrade when you feel you are no longer progressing. Other poster is correct that you will eventually go full carbon.

Most of the best rippers locally and online cut their teeth on the infinity wings (i76/i84), partly because slingshot had such a large percentage of the freeride windfoil market a few years ago but mostly because it has the perfect combination of performance characteristics (lift/low end, maneuverability/stability, and range) to allow skill progression and fun.

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thedoor said..
Good thing about hoverglide is that it is still fully supported and new wings continue to come out (maybe the same for the naish foil but not sure). It is also highly modular for dabbling in different sports.

Other option would be to go for the cheapest option to get your foil addiction started and then upgrade when you feel you are no longer progressing. Other poster is correct that you will eventually go full carbon.

Most of the best rippers locally and online cut their teeth on the infinity wings (i76/i84), partly because slingshot had such a large percentage of the freeride windfoil market a few years ago but mostly because it has the perfect combination of performance characteristics (lift/low end, maneuverability/stability, and range) to allow skill progression and fun.

Yes and I think there is an adapter for the phantasm bottom to go on the old slingshot masts, which looks like a more solid connection.

I have the Wizard 125 & Infinity 76. It's all I've used but I know someone who switched to SS from Naish and suddenly was getting his full foiling jibes (attributed to the Infinity 76 wing).

I've had the set up for two years and no plans to change. It seems those that dedicate to foiling go to the higher end gear. I still do various versions of "regular" windsurfing and kite. I like the variety and choose the gear for the conditions/mood.

With regards to the short nose and "digging in" this really is not an issue (maybe a preference). Although not super obvious, there is an effective "scoop" here. With learning comes effectively shifting your weight. I will say that in my early days learning to foil jibe, those with the long nosed Roberts Boards reported them as more foregiving if you touch down on the turns. However, I found with time this isn't a factor. In fact, one could say the shorter Board give a more manuvourable feel in sharper turns on small to meduim swell.

As a retailer of both SS and Naish, and having foiled both boards and foils, I 100% would go with Slingshot.

The Naish 122 is a lively board (pretty narrow), but as others have said the wider 125 is a perfect light wind shape, easier to schlog to wind lines and pump onto the foil.

I used the 2018 & 2019 Naish foils and they worked pretty well until I tried the Slingshot infinity foils and that's what got me to the next level with transitions etc.

The i76 is a great overall wing shape, and if you need something to push the extreme lower end wind speeds then I recommend either the i84 or i99.

Hovoor, be very careful if you get the WS1 and want to upgrade with more recent Naish gear. I started out on the WS1 and at the time was chuffed. A major leap up in windsurfing performance in sub 15 knots. However, compared to later gen foils, it's nowhere near the mark. The later Naish stuff (post the WS1) is way more predictable and better performance, and I've gone over to Axis and that gear runs rings around the Naish stuff for build quality and performance. Have also used the SS gear and I'd recommend that over the WS1 setup.
I had the original WS1 setup and bought the Naish 2018 1572cm2 foil setup but the fuses weren't compatible between the 2 masts (Naish decided to 'upgrade' their gear and de-compatiblized future setups with the original). So be aware that your 2017 WS1 gear will be limited in how you can upgrade it. I just wouldn't go there. Get a different foil make that you really want and run off that platform.
The Naish gear flexes a lot too compared to the Axis stuff.
The hover 122 is not a good board to Supfoil on. The foil box is placed right at the back of the board, so the balance point for your weight is not over the lift point of the foil. Not easy to learn. You stand forwards, paddle like hell to get close to going, then have to step back to get over the foil and get the thing to lift. Heaps of board in front of the foil so swingweight is high. So don't think that Supfoiling on that board will be easy. I have a wingfoil board and it's much easier and better performance that the Hover 122.
The Hover 122 was made for windfoiling, and it does that well. Don't think you can easy use it for much else though.
I'd also add that the Hover 122 is very light but also very prone to damage. You really need to treat it with kindness if you don't want to dent it.

the WS1 foil is too old, I would not recommend it. The new Naish foils are a lot better, starting from 2020 onwards there is a huge choice of wings, masts, etc. Make sure to get a windsurf fuse at least 80cm long. I have been using Naish foils for 3 years now and never had quality problems, apart from a cracked abracadabra plate: better use the fixed plates.

Go with the Slingshot gear. As already mentioned above, the older Naish foils wings aren't anywhere near as good as the newer ones. I don't know this from experience but have heard it along the grapevine. I think you'll find the Wizard 125 will be a nicer board to use than the Naish Hover 122 as well. I had a Naish Hover Crossover 120 when learning then got 105 and 125 SS Wizards. Both 2019 or 2020 models (same design). They felt better than the Hover Crossover.

Great advice all, thank you. Went with the Slingshot set up, sounds like it will be easier to start and upgrade in the future.
Cheers

Hey all.

Further advice please. 3 sessions in, can foil reasonably comfortably at slow speed without harness lines. When I try to power it up a bit and hook into the lines I am getting too much lift. I am leaning a long way forwards with the sail backwards towards the tail of the board. Harness lines are stretched forward to reach my harness.

Any ideas?

Thanks Scott

I mentioned i76 is on the big side for our weight.
So besides dropping 1.5 meters for foiling, drop another .5 sail size to account for a 1500 sq cm foil.
So in steady 15 wind, a 4.0 is plenty with i76.

Thanks LeeD. Was wondering that, had 5.3 in 15 to 18. Will try smaller tomorrow. Might try moving straps forward a bit too.

I stronger breeze try to always weight front foot and even move your backfoot forward.
You can also move sail mast base forward.
Unhook, move backhand onto rear harness line connection, place front hand as forward as your booms allow and sheet OUT a little bit to feather the sail.
Freestyle windsurfers do well at this.

Don't rake the sail back. Push it forward and follow it with your body.

Besides the good trim advice already given by others, for trim on the fly on a freeride foil, I like to have my harness lines closer togethre than for finning. That way it is easier to open up the sail a bit without decreasing mast foot pressure through the harness if a gust hits which leads to too much lift on the foil. If I find myself with too big a sail for the conditions it also helps to increase boom hight as this makes it easier apply more mast foot pressure hanging out and forward to keep the foil from breaching. Sometimes i find myself with the boom at the very top of the boom cutout on wave sails (my height is 180 cm) if I feel I need more leverage to control the foil through mast foot pressure. Adjustable harness lines are nice for on the fly trim as well. If the wind picks up, extending the harness lines adds control for me.

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hovoor said..
Hey all.

Further advice please. 3 sessions in, can foil reasonably comfortably at slow speed without harness lines. When I try to power it up a bit and hook into the lines I am getting too much lift. I am leaning a long way forwards with the sail backwards towards the tail of the board. Harness lines are stretched forward to reach my harness.

Any ideas?

Thanks Scott

Early on I was always foiling out going up wind on the I76. Even leaning way forward. Tried boom height harness lines etc. The only solution was to move the foil further back. I was already using the most forward footstrap position. My 140lbs just wasn't enough weight to keep the nose down. After getting the foil back enough, it's all been good. I can handle overpowered conditions nuch better.

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Good choice on slingshot.

Sounds like you are doing well. Time on water will lead to refinement. Although foiling with a sail starts by feeling familiar. There are numerous subtle body, sail, harness line items that are different than regular windsurfing.

You may be getting overpowered. As someone weighing just a little more than you (79-80), I can assure you the Infinity 76 is not too big for light to moderate wind. Ideas to experiment include, smaller sail (as mentioned). Mast track forward more (this helped me enormously when well powered). No footstraps.

No footstraps always you to move forward or back to find a balance point for varying wind strengths.

I still find harness line a bit forward and shorter than regular windsurfing helps. This may change in time.

When up on the foil getting really powered, I do find myself raking the sail back some and sheeting out a little. Contrary to any versions of my regular fin windsurfing.


Good luck. Time will get you there as you have good gear.