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Maddlad said..
From watching that i feel like you need to sink the arse of the board a bit more when you are pumping - in order to get the foil working more underneath you. I start with my front foot in the foot strap and my back foot in the middle of the board a bit further back so i can sink the tail and engage the cutouts at the rear. This gets the porpoising effect working with the foil and helps generate lift so i can break clear of the surface tension. Once im free of the water i keep pumping the sail til i know i'm going quick enough to engage the lines and get my rear foot in the strap.

BTW I am resurrecting this thread a bit due to this comment. I think I finally figured out what this all meant, today.

Had some deep lulls today and I should have shimmed up to +1 instead of the 0.5 I was using, and also could have dropped the downhaul a smidge for a little bit more low end, but I stuck it out and tried to diagnose the problem.

The problem: I was pumping well on one side (port) and bad on the other (starboard). I thought it was due to being right foot dominant maybe, but that ended up not being the case.

Per your comment, on the other side, my back foot was too far back and too far outboard at the beginning of pumping to be very effective. It was killing my efforts at the beginning. I had a slightly different stance on the other tack and didn't realize it. When I moved my foot on the centerline and got more on my toes at the start of the pump, and tried to keep my body weight on the centerline, I was able to get some initial speed enough to start creeping back and at that point just keep wailing on the back leg to get flying. Before, I couldn't do it well on that tack.

I'll have to experiment some more but fixing my stance on that side allowed me to get about 80% of my weight down while keeping the board flat (instead of digging a rail) and pushing the board forward on the bounces. If I tried that before, it would destabilize the board and just slow me down, due to poor stance.

One tip that an ex-FW racer told me also helps a lot in marginal winds: while vigorously starting to pump the sail, you need to position your body somewhat above the longitudinal centerline of the board. This way with each pump, you almost fall or tip over on the sail. Often, I was too far "outside" (towards my ass-back), which killed the sail pumping momentum.

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FormuIa said..
One tip that an ex-FW racer told me also helps a lot in marginal winds: while vigorously starting to pump the sail, you need to position your body somewhat above the longitudinal centerline of the board. This way with each pump, you almost fall or tip over on the sail. Often, I was too far "outside" (towards my ass-back), which killed the sail pumping momentum.

Yes this made sense to me. I think I was getting more of a forward push with my back foot when previously I was getting more of a sideways push, and I was standing more across the board than down the board. It made a big difference. The angle to the wind when pumping (reachy or just a little broad) also made a big difference as the sail would open up more and let the first few pumps get more of a forward momentum and apparent wind before stepping more outboard/back.

Glad to hear you are feeling like you are making progress mate. Theres nothing better than getting going early and flying around while noone else can get going haha. :P

remember to pop the board up with the back foot then almost smack the nose down with the front foot once almost planing until you are up. i get up in 6 knots with this method.

Thanks. Would love to see a video in such a light wind when possible.

Personally, below 7 kt I struggle with sail pumping, because the "return" of the sail back to centerline is too slow, and there's not enough apparent wind. The difference between 6 or 7 knots, or 7 to 8 knots is massive. Hard to see unless you're at a wind station or have an anemometer on the water.

Any one that can foil in 5 knots is a dreamer! I see the young generation training on the IQ foils. I see the so called experts and no one goes out in 5knots. They don't even go out in 8knots, unless you get some nice gust. if you can get going in 5 knots I will buy you a case of beer! You know who you are. And yes having a good pumping technique helps, but not in 5 knots.

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catchmeifucan said..
Any one that can foil in 5 knots is a dreamer! I see the young generation training on the IQ foils. I see the so called experts and no one goes out in 5knots. They don't even go out in 8knots, unless you get some nice gust. if you can get going in 5 knots I will buy you a case of beer! You know who you are. And yes having a good pumping technique helps, but not in 5 knots.

I've linked this video before, it's probably the lightest wind in which I saw anyone to pump :) www.instagram.com/p/CVN4AfhoBwt/?hl=en - he needs to pump to even stay on the foil, means that it must be super light...

8 knots of steady wind is plenty to get on the foil for a good recreational rider with good technique. Even 7-8 knots range is doable, if the water is flat and there's no chop. This below was measured on the water for a good minute or two, and the nice steady thermal wind ranged from 7-8 knots. Took me some effort to get up on the foil, but someone with better skills would be able to start even sooner.

Basically, a portable anemometer, despite not being perfectly calibrated, and a waterproof aquapac eliminate a lot of the guesswork :)

Amado was flying only because he was pumping, never mind getting off the water. Anyone who's pumped can appreciate the stamina it takes to do something like that. Usually, only when I'm in prime cycling condition can I even approach something like that amount of pumping - and there's no way I could replicate it. I think being in good condition is a prerequisite. Sometimes it might take 15-20 or more pumps to get and stay off the water. If you aren't in shape, that's just painful.

Digging the rear of the board and bouncing more helped me over the weekend. But the light wind takes it's toll. After 3 hours on the water my Coros watch says I need 33 hours recovery!

When their is less apparent wind focus more on the bounce and smaller sail movements...

most iq kids can fly from 6 knots i know this because a few of us were foiling but they would not start the race because it was only 6 knots and some weren't foiling. its all in the feet. i really think it helps if you try to slide the board forward while pumping feet.

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catchmeifucan said..
Any one that can foil in 5 knots is a dreamer! I see the young generation training on the IQ foils. I see the so called experts and no one goes out in 5knots. They don't even go out in 8knots, unless you get some nice gust. if you can get going in 5 knots I will buy you a case of beer! You know who you are. And yes having a good pumping technique helps, but not in 5 knots.

Subsonic and i get going in 8 knots on our big gear right next to you. You'd get going earlier too if you werent on a 7 metre sail and 500 wing all the time..

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len024 said..
most iq kids can fly from 6 knots i know this because a few of us were foiling but they would not start the race because it was only 6 knots and some weren't foiling. its all in the feet. i really think it helps if you try to slide the board forward while pumping feet.

Would love to see a video of someone getting on the foil in 6 knots, so we can learn more and study the technique :) If there's a chance, please make one and share it.

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Maddlad said..

catchmeifucan said..
Any one that can foil in 5 knots is a dreamer! I see the young generation training on the IQ foils. I see the so called experts and no one goes out in 5knots. They don't even go out in 8knots, unless you get some nice gust. if you can get going in 5 knots I will buy you a case of beer! You know who you are. And yes having a good pumping technique helps, but not in 5 knots.

Subsonic and i get going in 8 knots on our big gear right next to you. You'd get going earlier too if you werent on a 7 metre sail and 500 wing all the time..

Ha ha you make me laugh ??.
Like I said pumping in 5knots is not really foiling, it's just practicing pumping. And if I was 30kg lighter I would probably get going on my 7-500 combo.

I agree with catchmeifucan. 5 kts wind does not have enough kinetic energy to get anything moving. e=mv^2. 10 kts has 4 times the kinetic energy of 5 kts. It is the kinetic energy that applies force to the sail. Oh, you can try to compensate with a 25 sq m sail, like the boats do.

So, ya got pumping, and ya got "let's let the wind do the work." I prefer the latter. The best thing to do on a 5 kts day is write a letter to your mom. Or sand your fins.

oldies but goodies
www.instagram.com/p/B1yGKGhAL-B/
jibe
www.instagram.com/p/B0tWz4DgpsW/

Tall, young and strong helps a lot -longer "piston" for pumping. Seeing our IQ guys do it on a 900 wing is mindboggling and that's coming from a really light guy who usually gets going earlier than most.

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Paducah said..
oldies but goodies
www.instagram.com/p/B1yGKGhAL-B/
jibe
www.instagram.com/p/B0tWz4DgpsW/

Tall, young and strong helps a lot -longer "piston" for pumping. Seeing our IQ guys do it on a 900 wing is mindboggling and that's coming from a really light guy who usually gets going earlier than most.

All I know is that I *think* I can get going in 7kts now if I have the board and stab trimmed for high lift. Seeing that pump reinforces my thoughts on stance (and what I had wrong on one side). Notice he also builds a lot of the forward momentum with the front foot out of the strap so he can get more on the back leg, and carefully times the move to the front strap, then rear strap.

I'll have to try that more deliberately next time. I've improved my fin pumping as well due to all of this, and I've usually had to keep my front foot even further forward on the fin for it to be effective, before moving to the straps.

Also, I've been adding some more cardio to my weekly life (running and biking), and it's made a lot of difference in how much momentum I can build. However, all of that is for naught if my stance/foot position is wrong and I dig the rail instead of effectively pump. Still more to learn, but I still think there's more potential there at the bottom end.

That jibe is killer too. The beauty of these race foils is being able to keep the speed up quite a bit in the light stuff.

I can find a better video later but for now here is a mate filmed by berowne.

Don't get me wrong - regardless of what one calls it - when I see someone on the water in 5 (or 35 knots!) taking every opportunity to practice and improve their technique, I only have respect and admiration for their dedication to this sport!

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FormuIa said..

len024 said..
most iq kids can fly from 6 knots i know this because a few of us were foiling but they would not start the race because it was only 6 knots and some weren't foiling. its all in the feet. i really think it helps if you try to slide the board forward while pumping feet.

Would love to see a video of someone getting on the foil in 6 knots, so we can learn more and study the technique :) If there's a chance, please make one and share it.

Henry AUS105 Pump to foil in 4kts

Berowne AUS 123 23 pumps to get foiling in 4 knots!

Not to diminish the excellent pumping ability of both riders, just next time I'm out in 4 or even 5 knots of wind on my SUP I'll post a video with anemometer in hand

Until then, I'm taking the 4 knot guesstimate with a (big) grain of salt.

Definitely no more than 6. There was an anemometer on the boat that recorded 6 later in the day and to be perfectly honest there was some large ocean swell coming through that could have helped. but still . you can see from the water ripples there was a distinct lack of wind.

Well, there we go From 4 to 6 knots, there's 2.25 times more sail pressure. Even by goin from 4 to 5 knots, there's 50 % more sail pressure. In fact, every jump by 1 knot increases sail pressure significantly, as seen below.

As said: no doubt the wind was super light (as indicated by the water state), and no doubt that you guys on the videos can pump really well, with or without the help of the ocean swell. Getting up on the foil in 4 knots is what I'm skeptical of.

I propose a fun challenge: an investment into a portable anemometer and waterproof aquapac shouldn't cost more than 25-35 USD (or your local currency equivalent). Eg. this www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005240944882.html and a cheap Decathlon or similar aquapac.

If anyone on a windfoil board can pump and start foiling when there's measured 4 kt average wind (and gusts below 5 kt), heck, I'm willing to reimburse these costs as a thank-you gesture for a nice "how-to pump in ultra light winds" lecture :) You can cheat with a displacement board such as Serenity, Condor, etc.



Source: www.omnicalculator.com/physics/wind-load

Some months ago we had a Foil clinic with Bautista Saubidet from Argentina (formerly RSX Olympic athelete, now his brother is qualifying for Paris 2024 iqFoil). Here's a video of him demostrating the pumping technique on 5-6 knots

Amazing video, thanks for sharing!

Subtitles aren't generated correctly, so if you could please translate what he says at the beginning, that would help too :) Thanks.

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FormuIa said..
Amazing video, thanks for sharing!

Subtitles aren't generated correctly, so if you could please translate what he says at the beginning, that would help too :) Thanks.

Yeah, sorry couldn't answer before. He's saying:

1. When you're about to start, go into the front strap. and the other foot by the side in the centerline of the board
2. When you get some little pressure (gust) you start pumping extending arms fully with big pumps all the way
3. As soon as the board starts planing go to the back strap on the rail (asap)
4. Pump with arms and legs both at the same time

(some things he doesnt' say in the video, he said them later)

Had a variable 6-16 knot session yesterday at Marmong Point Sailing Club and a few tips from the day...

More power shim angle... I only went out with -0.5 degree's but should have gone -1, but the wind was all over the place so on average right... but for light wind more power for sure helps!
Bigger rear wing... well not for the iQ crew... ha ha.
When you pump the sail, pull the back hand on a little bit more, a lot of the time I don't close up the sail pump enough. That last 10% helps!
I had a few times where I could LIFT the front foot, pulling down on the boom, which felt like it was lifting the windward rail a bit, letting air under, and changing the angle of attach of the foil. I'll need to work on this a bit more to define it better. New video project to come :)

In the video above you can see Bautista use the foot straps to lift and heel the board over with each pump. The heeling is breaking the surface tension so the flat bottom releases. Pretty cool and rarely mentioned.

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utcminusfour said..
In the video above you can see Bautista use the foot straps to lift and heel the board over with each pump. The heeling is breaking the surface tension so the flat bottom releases. Pretty cool and rarely mentioned.

Yes, thanks for pointing that out.... now you mention it, and after rewatching the video, you can clearly see the windward rail lifting with each pump.

I've often felt my 1m wide board 'sticky' and now I know about the 'surface tension' problem, I hope to be able to pump more effectively, meaning less!

#GoodChat